Author Topic: Gun Fails  (Read 22750 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #116 on: June 25, 2013, 09:44:54 AM »
That's not correct -- if you have a license to carry in New Jersey, you can carry openly.  (Getting the license, of course, is another matter.)

yes, that's what I meant.  I was not thorough in explaining.  Thus, almost no one actually carries.  In almost 20 years here I've never seen anyone out of uniform with a gun in public.

I'm not surprised.  When it comes to issuing carry licenses, New Jersey is probably the second "stingiest" state in the nation, after Hawaii.  The last time I looked into it, New Jersey had issued only some 3,000 or so licenses if memory serves.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline screwtape

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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #118 on: June 25, 2013, 01:11:15 PM »
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html

I already knew most of that, but it's refreshing to see an article that can present such information objectively.  Slate, in particular, tends to lean to the left, so seeing them report the positive side of gun ownership is a pleasant surprise for which they deserve credit.  I have to admit that I often get so passionate about this topic that it's sometimes hard for me to concede any points to the other side.

In unrelated news, the backlog on regulated firearms purchases in Maryland is not clearing up.  I've been waiting almost three months to pick up my Beretta.  Bleah.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #119 on: June 25, 2013, 02:12:22 PM »
I have to admit that I often get so passionate about this topic that it's sometimes hard for me to concede any points to the other side.

It's good that you can admit it.  Try the Litany of Tarski.  It seems a little weird and cultish, but I find it helps me.  The brain in my head is the only one I have, so I have to find ways to make it work.
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #120 on: July 02, 2013, 10:37:43 AM »
Driver shot in Orlando was mistaken for someone else

Quote
The man who shot and killed Fred William Turner as he was driving on I-4 near Orlando on Sunday claims he did it because he thought Turner was someone else.

...

Investigators claim Hayes, who is registered as a felon is Osceola County, turned himself in Monday morning.

Random act of delayed violence without bothering to verify who the victim should be. 


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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #121 on: July 02, 2013, 02:59:39 PM »
Driver shot in Orlando was mistaken for someone else

Quote
The man who shot and killed Fred William Turner as he was driving on I-4 near Orlando on Sunday claims he did it because he thought Turner was someone else.

...

Investigators claim Hayes, who is registered as a felon is Osceola County, turned himself in Monday morning.

Random act of delayed violence without bothering to verify who the victim should be.

And the guy thought it was a good idea to just shoot at someone who was not bothering him, because he thought it was someone he had once had a fight with?

WTF is that? The "I thought he was this other a$$hole" defense? :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #122 on: July 02, 2013, 06:39:27 PM »
And the guy thought it was a good idea to just shoot at someone who was not bothering him, because he thought it was someone he had once had a fight with?

WTF is that? The "I thought he was this other a$$hole" defense? :P

Well, he has now committed two felonies. All he needs is one more felony and he will be a permanent ward of the state at a likely cost of $80K/year. Of course, Florida might give him a jolt ... 10-15 years from now.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Nick

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #123 on: July 02, 2013, 07:50:58 PM »
Hey, he was standing his ground.  It could have been the guy he was looking for.  You don't want to miss those opportunities.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline kin hell

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #124 on: July 10, 2013, 10:34:53 AM »
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/15-Shot-As-Holiday-Weekend-Begins-214275491.html


Quote
72 Shot in Chicago in Wave of Holiday Weekend Violence

impressive figures
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Nick

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #125 on: July 10, 2013, 11:22:41 AM »
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/15-Shot-As-Holiday-Weekend-Begins-214275491.html


Quote
72 Shot in Chicago in Wave of Holiday Weekend Violence

impressive figures
Wow, add that to the 72 virgins you get when going to heaven and I see a pattern here.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #126 on: July 10, 2013, 03:50:37 PM »
Without even reading the details, I'll bet all 72 of those people were evil international criminals, wanted by the FBI and Interpol, caught in the very act of perpetrating heinious 4th of July crimes against hundreds of innocent total strangers.  :P

And I am sure alcohol had nothing to do with any of the shootings. Amirite? &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #127 on: July 30, 2013, 11:26:57 AM »
Got behind in my gun fails.

24  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/29/1218208/-GunFAIL-XXIV

25  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/07/1220100/-GunFAIL-XXV

26  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/13/1221928/-GunFAIL-XXVI

27  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/20/1223553/-GunFAIL-XXVII

28  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/27/1225271/-GunFAIL-XXVIII


200-250 shootings, accidents, cops leaving guns in schools, and idiots shooting bystanders.  I like the one in 26 where a guy gave his gun to a drunk friend so he could see it.  The owner decided that was a bad idea and asked for it back.  The drunk idiot, being a drunk idiot, didn't want to give it back.  The owner tried to take it.  They struggled.  The drunk idiot was shot in the head and killed.  Horray for responsible gun owners!
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #128 on: July 30, 2013, 12:16:39 PM »
25, 16 is just plain stupid. The woman shot at her own house to scare away intruders? And now her grandson is dead.

One thing we know for sure -- the local thieves will no longer try to steal from her when they know she is willing to shoot her own grandson to keep them away.
John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #129 on: July 30, 2013, 01:10:23 PM »
25, 16 is just plain stupid. The woman shot at her own house to scare away intruders? And now her grandson is dead.

An even stupider one in an earlier gun fail: a man in his home had an argument with his son and to get his attention, shot at a wall.  The bullet struck the son's girlfriend on the other side of the wall and killed her. 
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #130 on: July 30, 2013, 01:52:26 PM »
25, 16 is just plain stupid. The woman shot at her own house to scare away intruders? And now her grandson is dead.

An even stupider one in an earlier gun fail: a man in his home had an argument with his son and to get his attention, shot at a wall.  The bullet struck the son's girlfriend on the other side of the wall and killed her.

A few years back, there was a goblin who decided to mug a guy who was wearing a baseball cap with the NRA logo on it, apparently not being able to put two and two together.  The encounter ended with a rather predictable result.  I don't remember for sure whether the goblin lived, but I think he did.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline screwtape

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #132 on: July 30, 2013, 04:53:53 PM »
Adding more guns to a school environment? It's not like there are kids around who have bad judgment or anything like that. And overworked, underpaid teachers need the added responsibility of one more really important thing to worry about. Securing the classroom gun safe....

"Let's see, it's 2:45, kids all made it to the bus, got my papers to grade, grab purse, make sure my desk is locked, check windows, detect intruder at door, draw weapon, lay down a barrage of opening fire, secure the perimeter, ascertain that intruder is down, determine that intruder is Bobby Hansen, age 12, coming back for his forgotten baseball cap. Was Bobby Hansen." :o
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #133 on: July 31, 2013, 06:57:39 AM »
I see something more along the lines of this:
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/10/cops_gun_stolen_from_hoover_ba.html
or this
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/01/26/former-cop-who-left-gun-in-grade-school-bathroom-wont-be-fired/
or this
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Cops-Search-for-Lost-Gun-of-Previous-Snoozing-Cop-186068242.html
or this
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/51977024-78/officer-police-lake-salt.html.csp
or this
http://www.patriotledger.com/news/x1433779405/Plymouth-cop-who-lost-gun-suspended-for-20-days
or this
http://rt.com/usa/gun-school-bathroom-guard-293/

Plus, I think you have to consider how kids growing up in that environment would change the culture.  Policies affect culture 20 years down the road.  When we started doing drug testing 30 years ago, it prepared a whole generation to be drug tested.  Now people see drug testing as normal.  I still see it as a massive violation of my privacy and every time I interview for a job it pisses me off.  Especially since now they also want to run a credit check on me.  What next, send someone to rifle though my underwear drawer?

So, what will a generation growing up in a militarized environment do to the culture 25 years from now?  Are we preparing children to live in a police state? 

good slate piece http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/04/09/nra_recommends_arming_school_officials_why_guns_in_school_are_a_bad_idea.html
The first point is the best, I think.  Kids do get their hands on everything.  You cannot hide anything from them. 


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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #134 on: July 31, 2013, 07:09:41 AM »
Plus, I think you have to consider how kids growing up in that environment would change the culture.  Policies affect culture 20 years down the road.  When we started doing drug testing 30 years ago, it prepared a whole generation to be drug tested.  Now people see drug testing as normal.  I still see it as a massive violation of my privacy and every time I interview for a job it pisses me off.  Especially since now they also want to run a credit check on me.  What next, send someone to rifle though my underwear drawer?

I agree with this completely.  I've said before that it's the old "boiling the frog" thing (although that's actually a myth, but that's a separate discussion).  You introduce one invasion, desensitize everyone to it for a while, let it become the norm, then proceed to the next invasion.

I'm going to be flying to Ireland in September, and as much as I'm looking forward to this trip, the flying part is giving me a really sinking feeling.  I'm old enough to remember when flying was actually enjoyable; I also recall the process during which it became merely tolerable, then a hassle, and now a tremendously miserable experience.  Younger people, of course, aren't going to be able to tell the difference, at least, not very well, which means that what they'll simply regard the current situation as the norm and whatever new intrusions get added later as being the "real" invasion.  When they see movies like "Airplane!", where the kid is allowed to visit the cockpit and things like that, they'll intellectually understand that it used to be allowed, but they won't "get it".
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #135 on: July 31, 2013, 10:40:06 AM »
The spectacularly unhelpful second amendment
(The most controversial amendment to the Bill of Rights is also the most confusingly worded)

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/28/the_spectacularly_unhelpful_second_amendment/

Long essay trying to understand the language of the second amendment.  It can be so many things to so many people.  Not really what you want in a legal document.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #136 on: July 31, 2013, 11:13:11 AM »
You are spot on, pianodwarf. But now that they have gotten us so used to intrusions, they are no longer concerned about gently stepping up the levels. The latest revelations regarding a certain spyish agency whose name I don't think we're allowed to say being a case in point. Soon we'll be hearing the drones of drones, which will go along with the drones of politicians who will be telling us there is nothing to worry about. We're cooked unless we can find a way to affect change. And I doubt we can.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #137 on: July 31, 2013, 04:12:10 PM »
I agree.

It used to be fun, a treat, even, back in the day, but nowadays I hate flying; increasingly, I try to avoid situations where I will have to fly somewhere, and I bet I am not the only one.

I hate being treated like a criminal in order to ride on transportation; having belongings confiscated several times and never returned; as a dreadlocked black woman always getting picked for the "random" additional screening while my white husband walks on through; being assumed guilty of unknown offenses and looked at suspiciously by other passengers; the hand pat-downs; the naked machine-- and now, having to teach my daughter to undergo the same. >:(

As recently as the late 1990's, my husband and I waited together at the gate, kissed each other goodbye and saw the spouse get onto the flight. I remember meeting folks right as they got off the plane. The days of walking your friends to the gate and saying goodbye, well, we kissed that good bye. :-*

And, although we have inconvenienced everyone and accustomed everyone to more "security", we are not safer from terrorism. Anyone who wants to can walk into an airport, shopping mall or public gathering a la Boston Marathon and commit a violent act. It has always been that way-- look at the US anarchist bombings in the early 20th century.

Better social services including mental health care, especially for veterans, some technical fixes to track bomb materials and guns, and less military involvement in foreign countries would do far more to reduce the terror threat at a fraction of the cost in time, money and personal liberty. (Gets down, slowly due to arthritic knees,  from soapbox.)

Did I say I hate flying?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #138 on: August 01, 2013, 07:08:08 AM »
While I enjoyed your righteous post on flying, ngfm, I beg the rest of you to not add to that.  I could write a rant at least three times that long on flying and security, and I'd rather this not become a flying thread.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #139 on: August 01, 2013, 06:05:06 PM »
Sorry. Back to the regularly scheduled gun stuff.  :angel:

Guns! Love 'em? Hate 'em? What say you?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #140 on: August 01, 2013, 06:19:18 PM »
Sorry. Back to the regularly scheduled gun stuff.  :angel:

Guns! Love 'em? Hate 'em? What say you?

You know... it's really pretty odd.

I live in the Metro DC area, and around here, practically any job you apply for is going to require a credit check, background investigation, fingerprints, and the whole schemer.  (And that's just for unclassified work, never mind stuff that requires a security clearance.)  That being the case, I've been thru that dance quite a few times.  And I hate it.  I'm a very private person, and I deeply resent the intrusiveness of the whole process, and I also resent the inherent assumption that I should have to prove that I'm innocent before I'm allowed to get a job.  On the other hand, I also have to admit that I wouldn't want anyone being allowed to work for the federal government without a background check.  So I've got very mixed feelings about it whenever I have to deal with it myself.  I feel kind of the same about firearms.  I really wish we lived in a world where I didn't feel like I needed one, but this isn't that world.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Spit

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #141 on: August 01, 2013, 06:52:41 PM »
Sorry. Back to the regularly scheduled gun stuff.  :angel:

Guns! Love 'em? Hate 'em? What say you?
Love em! Most of what I read here and there isn't even close to the experience I have with guns. Most of us you would never know we even own them. Unless of course you break in.  ;D

Offline Chronos

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #142 on: August 02, 2013, 06:21:58 AM »
Man charged with firing gun in apartment

Quote
A Frederick man was charged Thursday after police said he fired a handgun in his apartment, sending a bullet into the bedroom of another apartment below.

...

“Both females were involved in a verbal altercation,” the release said. “One of the females inside the residence was then assaulted by Ashman. The two females later went to sleep. Ashman then went into his bedroom and fired one round into the floor.”



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Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #143 on: August 05, 2013, 08:34:31 AM »
Ah, Florida.
http://www.pnj.com/article/20130728/NEWS11/307280027/Deputies-shoot-man-his-front-yard?nclick_check=1

I guess the Zimmerman verdict made some people think it's now open season on black people.

Quote
He said he backed out of the vehicle with his hands raised, but when he turned to face the deputies, they immediately opened fire.

Luckily, their aim stinks and he survived.
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #144 on: August 05, 2013, 07:33:55 PM »
Wherever crazy starts, always remember: Florida First!
John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.