Author Topic: "Every Knee Shall Bend"  (Read 408 times)

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Offline Nick

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"Every Knee Shall Bend"
« on: August 07, 2017, 03:42:09 PM »
Franklin Graham had an article today about abortion, gay marriage, or some nonsense like that.  But the part that caught my eye was the quote by him that "every knee shall bend before Him".  I am thinking, wait a minute, if this God thing does end up being "real" and I am standing there in the end.  Would I bend a knee?  Would you?  This God thing has done nothing right with this whole creation thing.  It plays hide and seek and expects us to just go along.  I still would not bend my knee.  To hell with it and if that is a problem then suck an egg.

Oh, and what about amputees who have lost their legs.  How do they bow?  God hates them anyhow so I guess that might not be a problem.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 03:44:00 PM by Nick »
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 04:24:31 PM »
If we take into context the whole of Christian teachings about this God then, if He says "every knee shall bend", in the end...every knee will bend. If we take it literally, then people without knees obviously can't bend them so, let's take it metaphorically. Metaphorically, every person will succumb to the will of God. That's all that means. So, you can stand there in defiance for as long as He lets you but at some point He will cause you to submit.

So, yeah...I would stand and question Him until the bitter end when He "pulls the trigger" and forces me to bend.


« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 04:26:41 PM by Mr. Blackwell »
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Offline Boots

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 04:52:58 PM »
This is one of the (many) issues I had when I recently attended a Catholic funeral for my only blood uncle (*sniff*).  What kind of all-powerful being REQUIRES full submission of every one of its creation??  I mean, holy narcissist (pun intended)!!
...religion is simply tribalism with a side order of philosophical wankery, and occasionally a baseball bat to smash...anyone who doesn't show...deference to the tribe's chosen totem.

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Offline Nick

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 05:21:02 PM »
If we take into context the whole of Christian teachings about this God then, if He says "every knee shall bend", in the end...every knee will bend. If we take it literally, then people without knees obviously can't bend them so, let's take it metaphorically. Metaphorically, every person will succumb to the will of God. That's all that means. So, you can stand there in defiance for as long as He lets you but at some point He will cause you to submit.

So, yeah...I would stand and question Him until the bitter end when He "pulls the trigger" and forces me to bend.
So it is like the old GONG SHOW.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2017, 10:44:58 AM »
What kind of all-powerful being REQUIRES full submission of every one of its creation??

Agreed - but is that the context of the quote?  Might "every knee shall bend" not mean "eventually, everyone will finally understand how super god is and willingly bow to him?"  A hope, rather than a threat?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline albeto

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 11:55:45 AM »
Agreed - but is that the context of the quote?  Might "every knee shall bend" not mean "eventually, everyone will finally understand how super god is and willingly bow to him?"  A hope, rather than a threat?

That's how I always understood it to mean. Every soul will see the glory of god and those who never believed it during life will then say, "shit, I'm screwed because now I have to spend eternity in the lake of fire, but dang, god is great!"

I think this is why Joseph Smith invented his 3-ring circus heaven. There are three heavenly spheres in the Mormon faith, and everyone will get to a heaven. The highest sphere is for temple mormons, those who went through all the bells and whistles. They get to become gods and goddesses of their own worlds, populating them with spirit babies to start the whole show over in another corner of the galaxy. The second is for everyone who wasn't able or interested in going through all the mormon bells and whistles but see now how cool jesus and god and the holy ghost really are. The third are for the people who, as I was told by a born and bread mormon, would be uncomfortable with all the posh people, so they get a laid back, relaxed, trailer park version if you will (well, she didn't describe it as a trailer park) of heaven surrounded by "their kind." But everyone gets heaven because as soon as you're dead you get to see how awesome jesus and god and the holy ghost are and there is no hell. 

I'm not sure what happens to the people who get posthumously baptized, like Anne Frank. She didn't go through all the bells and whistles in the temple and wasn't married to a morman man in the temple, so she can't hear her secret name called and become a goddess with him and reign over a world of their own. Maybe she gets elevated out of trailer park heaven? I'm just not sure. But I digress.

Offline Nick

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 01:56:33 PM »
Mormons have secret names?  I learn something every time I come to this site.  Question, is you are a southern girl or boy do you get two secret names...like Mary Jane or Billy Bob.  Can you imagine a Mormon named Billy Bob getting his own planet to God over.  "I am the Lord your God, Billy Bob."
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline albeto

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 02:38:44 PM »
Mormons have secret names?  I learn something every time I come to this site.  Question, is you are a southern girl or boy do you get two secret names...like Mary Jane or Billy Bob.  Can you imagine a Mormon named Billy Bob getting his own planet to God over.  "I am the Lord your God, Billy Bob."

They get secret names and a secret handshake. You can probably find examples of how to do the secret handshake on youtube as people have started recording and exposing this foolishness. But yes, the names are given (biblical only, sorry!) to the husband and wife at their wedding ceremony. According to mormon dogma, after death, the husband will call the wife by her secret name, they'll do their secret handshake, and the two will float off as god and goddess to start a world of their own. There they'll have gazillions of "spirit babies" of their own.[1] If the husband doesn't call the wife by her secret name, she'll remain forever "asleep." The wife has no safety hatch here. Make of that what you will.

According to ex-mormons, the names given are identical to each couple on the day of their wedding. So every couple that got married in Salt Lake City's temple last Saturday were given the same names. That apparently takes the sails out of many faithful on their special day. I have a friend who was enormously freaked out by the temple bath she was given by a bunch of women in the congregation. No one talks about temple rituals outside the temple, and so when these things happen and you are just supposed to roll with it. She didn't. She's no longer mormon, btw, in large part because no one will talk about the morman rituals or what they mean outside the temple, but to go into the temple you have to affirm your faith in these rituals and what they mean. The fact she couldn't get her husband's secret name pissed her right the hell off, too.
 1. Humanity is born into the spirit world all at once, making everyone spirit brothers and sisters (including jesus and lucifer), then when a mommy and a daddy do the dirty a spirit baby gets sucked into a flesh and blood baby. Sadly they lose their memories, which is why it's so important they learn this stuff in church.

Offline Nick

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 03:55:59 PM »
I guess Jesus did not call His wife's secret name because we don't have a female God figure here on Earth.

(I am still amazed how people let themselves fall for this religious stuff)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline jdawg70

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 10:26:31 PM »
Agreed - but is that the context of the quote?  Might "every knee shall bend" not mean "eventually, everyone will finally understand how super god is and willingly bow to him?"  A hope, rather than a threat?
Possibly a hope.

Maybe a prediction.

Perhaps a prophecy.

Or is it faith?

Near as I can tell, from conversations with theists, within the context of religion all of these concepts are very muddled and squishy, folding on top of each other in an incomprehensible heap of semantic nothingness.  The result "every knee bending" is simultaneously orchestrated under the supreme guidance of an entity's will that cannot, by fiat fail to achieve a result and entirely dependent on the individual choices of fallible entities who are not god exercising their own free will rather than the will of an entity who is not them, which includes god (entities who, by the way, do not know god's superduperawesomedivine plan[1] - how many complex goals can be achieved with any success by fallible humans who do not even understand what the damn goal is?).  God knows it will happen, intends for it to happen, has and is executing a plan to make it happen, but is somehow not making it happen.
 1. As I am very often told one ought not assume that the feeble human mind is capable of comprehending this plan.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 10:27:13 PM »
Also I half-expected a Game of Thrones conversation with this thread title.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Boots

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2017, 10:41:37 AM »
What kind of all-powerful being REQUIRES full submission of every one of its creation??

Agreed - but is that the context of the quote?  Might "every knee shall bend" not mean "eventually, everyone will finally understand how super god is and willingly bow to him?"  A hope, rather than a threat?

it depends.  If the word "shall" is translated from the original correctly, then the answer to your question is "no." 

"Shall" is reserved for things that ARE GOING to happen.  The only entities linguistically allowed to use shall are the self ("I shall be home at 6:00!") and a deity.  So, not a hope, but either a command or a prophecy of a certain outcome.  Again...if the word "shall" is correct.
...religion is simply tribalism with a side order of philosophical wankery, and occasionally a baseball bat to smash...anyone who doesn't show...deference to the tribe's chosen totem.

~Astreja

To not believe in god is to know that it falls to us to make the world a better place.

~Sam Harris

Offline Nick

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2017, 11:57:20 AM »
This God has a credibility problem (like our president).  He says every knee shall bend and also that He won't be mocked.  Yet we mock Him all the time here.  So, the won't be mocked thing is another falsehood from this God thing.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline jdawg70

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2017, 02:44:16 PM »
This God has a credibility problem (like our president).

Which does explain why his existence-status is...less than obvious.

Better to remain silent (or invisible to systematic observation) and thought a fool (or ineffectual leader or incompetent buffoon or immoral shitbag) than to speak (or put yourself into a position of public office) and remove all doubt (of your ineffectual leadership and gross, staggering incompetence and blatantly obvious and incredibly transparent immoral, selfish actions and behavior).
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2017, 02:28:50 AM »
What kind of all-powerful being REQUIRES full submission of every one of its creation??

Agreed - but is that the context of the quote?  Might "every knee shall bend" not mean "eventually, everyone will finally understand how super god is and willingly bow to him?"  A hope, rather than a threat?

it depends.  If the word "shall" is translated from the original correctly, then the answer to your question is "no." 

"Shall" is reserved for things that ARE GOING to happen.  The only entities linguistically allowed to use shall are the self ("I shall be home at 6:00!") and a deity.  So, not a hope, but either a command or a prophecy of a certain outcome.  Again...if the word "shall" is correct.

Perhaps "hope" was the wrong word - but, still, the "shall" does not necessarily imply coercion. 

Poor example, but my daughter had braces fitted recently.  She wasn't overly happy about it, but my feeling is that she "shall" be happy about it in years to come - and that is a happiness she will come to by herself, without my forcing her to change her attitude.

I suspect that when Christians use the phrase "every knee shall bow", they mean "we honestly believe that one day, everyone will finally understand how super our god is", rather than "one day, big men with big whips will kick you in the back of the leg until you kneel before our god".

Apart from the Inquisition, obviously.  Or most of the Crusaders.  Or Westboro.  Or Judah and his armies.  But in general, pretty sure its the "nice" version.....
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2017, 01:49:54 PM »
I've always sort of seen that line as meaning that God is supposedly so awe-inspiring, and not necessarily in a good way, that even if you didn't bow down in worship, he could make you cower in terror. Either way, everyone will bow.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: "Every Knee Shall Bend"
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2017, 02:28:37 PM »
If I were to meet a god I don't know that I would necessarily want to kneel.  It depends on how my life turns out at that point.  Right now I would have a lot of questions as to why so many things have allowed to happen not only to me but nationally and globally. 
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.