Author Topic: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?  (Read 2005 times)

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Offline viocjit

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Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« on: May 13, 2013, 01:38:08 PM »
I don't know if I'm in the good section but I will say what I need to say.
All my life I had only a goal (real goal) who was to go in heaven.
Now I realised that there are maybe no afterlife.
All begin there are some years (between three and six I can't remember) I saw that there are things who are similar to Christianity in Pagan religions. I don't analysed these things because I thought something like that (FR : C'est faux EN : This is false). Some years after this event I did researches about the Bible and I saw that the Bible is a selection of text.
I read a translation of the Bible in French and I didn't saw contradictions or mistakes (except the Genesis but for me it was a story to explain the sin and others things of this kind).
When I read the old testament I thought a thing of this kind (FR : pourquoi dieu demande de tuer tous ces gens ? EN : Why god ask to kill all these people ?).
After I thought that this is the god's plan therefore that is logic because this is a divine punition (logic a strange word for that).
When I finalised to read the two testaments I was satisfy because I read the Bible and the majority of Christians and non-christians inhabitant in the western world never read this book or rather this library.
Later I saw that there are contradictions and mistakes with the official history in the old and the new testament.

Conclusion : There are maybe an explication to confirm Christianity but I suppose that find an explication for all these things is very complex and probably that this explication doesn't exist.
I didn't give many details in my text because this is already long.
If you want to know more contact me.

Online One Above All

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 01:42:11 PM »
At first, deconversion can be confusing and scary, but it's a good thing. It frees your mind from the constraints of religion.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline viocjit

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 01:59:28 PM »
At first, deconversion can be confusing and scary, but it's a good thing. It frees your mind from the constraints of religion.

I know but the problem is the next I don't know if I want deconversion or stay Christian ?
I think that I will maybe deconvert myself but I must analyse more documents to be sure.
Examples of contradictions in the Bible (King James Version) :

2sam 23:8 These be the names of the mighty men whom David had: The Tachmonite that sat in the seat, chief among the captains; the same was Adino the Eznite: he lift up his spear against eight hundred, whom he slew at one time.

1chron 11:11 And this is the number of the mighty men whom David had; Jashobeam, an Hachmonite, the chief of the captains: he lifted up his spear against three hundred slain by him at one time.

Offline Nick

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 02:06:26 PM »
Depends if you like to believe in "make believe shit" or not.  Some people need crutches to make it thru life (drugs, alcohol, work, religion, etc.).  If you don't want or need any of that then rational thought is the way to go.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Online One Above All

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 02:25:24 PM »
I know but the problem is the next I don't know if I want deconversion or stay Christian ?
I think that I will maybe deconvert myself but I must analyse more documents to be sure.

Deconversion is not a choice. It either happens (you lose your faith) or it doesn't (your faith remains).

Examples of contradictions in the Bible (King James Version) :
<snip>

If you want examples of contradictions in the Bible, there's a website that made a graph of every contradiction they could find. Just Google something like "Bible contradiction graph" and you should be able to find it.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline viocjit

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 06:44:25 PM »
@Nick I understand what you say but this is very complex.

@One Above All I know this graph. You say that deconversion is not a choice but I will analyse all documents in my possession after I will to do my choice.
This is a conception of deconversion , I think that your definition of the word deconversion is not compatible with my case.

Offline Garja

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 07:20:53 PM »
Deconversion was a huge mix of feelings for me. It was scary as hell (quite literally in fact). But at the end of the day it was a relief. I still get angry thinking that I believed a lie for such a long period of time- but I am now at peace with that, and the world makes infinitely more sense when you don't try to force it through the "lens" of Christianity.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 07:27:01 PM »
Viocjit, if by "deconversion" you mean the process by which a believer becomes a non-believer, you would do well in describing the process to defer to the experiences of those who've actually undergone it, rather than either telling them what they experienced or claiming that it's not "real" deconversion (which is what your "different definition" comment does).
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Energized

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 07:49:10 PM »
Deconversion was a huge mix of feelings for me. It was scary as hell (quite literally in fact). But at the end of the day it was a relief. I still get angry thinking that I believed a lie for such a long period of time- but I am now at peace with that, and the world makes infinitely more sense when you don't try to force it through the "lens" of Christianity.

This.

Well said.

E.
'O pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
O damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps it is time to die?'

~Enma Ai, Jigoku Shoujo

Offline Nick

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 08:47:31 PM »
@Nick I understand what you say but this is very complex.

@One Above All I know this graph. You say that deconversion is not a choice but I will analyse all documents in my possession after I will to do my choice.
This is a conception of deconversion , I think that your definition of the word deconversion is not compatible with my case.
Why does it have to be complex?  If there is a God then He should make it so most of us can understand.  Why make it so complex only religious scholars can figure it out?  Just more "wishing" it were so kind of thinking.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Garja

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2013, 09:57:28 PM »
An all-knowing being would not create mankind in such a way as to be Incapable of understanding him, particularly since acceptance of him is required to avoid eternal punishment. Eternal punishment for not believing in something that escapes the normal confines of belief. This does not make any sense whatsoever.

UNLESS of course you allow for god to be a capricious asshole. Then it follows.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2013, 08:56:18 AM »
I'll take reality any day of the week over imaginary. If reality is bad, then imagining something better doesnt make it better. By accepting reality is the only way we can make it better.

My deconversion wasnt complicated or scary. I was disappointed in myself for believing such asinine stories, and disappointed in those I trusted for feeding me the stuff. I was just glad that I rid of the superstition completely at a fairly young age. As for it being a choice, I dont think it was a choice for me, rather I am lead by the evidence and rational thought. Once I saw the gross inconsistencies and outright deplorable things done by yahweh in the bible it lead me to research the book itself. Once I saw that the book itself was a sketchy collection of nonsense written by uneducated shepherds who certainly didnt have the mental capacity (likely due to their period in time or maybe not) that I did even as a teen, then the only option was clear.

The feelings I got from religion I had already learned I could get elsewhere from art, music, gazing into the night sky... so there just was absolutely nothing to support my belief at all. Nothing, not a shred. At that point it just wasnt any more of a choice than to believe or disbelieve in the sun.

Offline Mrjason

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2013, 09:34:55 AM »
i was brought up by a religious family, my indoctrination started when I was very young. I remember learning about gensis at sunday school at about the same time I was learning how to tell the time.

At about 7 I began to question religion. The more I looked at it the more it looked like it was made up.
As I learned more about the universe, astrophysics, evolution etc there were so many holes in christianity that it became unfeasible to believe in it.
By the time I was confirmed at 15 I was pretty sure that christianity was nonsense. I was just going to church because my family expected me to.
I looked into other belief systems, the mythos of Carlos Castenada was a favourite at the time. I still like his books  :)
In the end I asked a priest my questions and the answer that I got was (pretty much verbatim) "if there is no god and we live in a capricious universe then stop the ride I want to get off"
I was about 24 when I asked that.

that was the final straw.

I still go to religious buildings, but only to look at the architecture. I still read religious texts, but only to get an understanding of other cultures.

I'm happy living this way and I think it has made me a more rounded and tolerant person. :D

Offline Garja

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2013, 11:07:54 AM »
Quote
I dont think it was a choice for me, rather I am lead by the evidence and rational thought.

This is a good point.  I dont think one can CHOOSE belief or dis-belief.  You either do or you dont.  Now of course you can lie to yourself and keep trying to force yourself to believe something you dont.  But that sounds like a recipe for misery to me.  Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Online One Above All

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2013, 11:10:45 AM »
@One Above All I know this graph.

Then you're well aware of how contradictory the Bible is.

You say that deconversion is not a choice but I will analyse all documents in my possession after I will to do my choice.

Since you still believe belief is a choice, I dare you to believe in unicorns.

This is a conception of deconversion , I think that your definition of the word deconversion is not compatible with my case.

I have no idea what this means.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline viocjit

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2013, 04:00:49 PM »
@Nick This is interessant because I know that understand God is complex if he does exist.
He does exist or He doesn't exist ? I can reknown that I always doubted a little but this is not like now because in this moment this is the real doubt I can define myself to be in a state of agnosticism.

@One Above All With these words I said that I don't know if I must stay Christian or join the Atheism because I have many documents in my possesions but I would like analyse them before to make my choice.

@ALL Thanks you to all for yours answers because yours words help me a bit.

Offline Garja

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2013, 09:30:07 PM »
I for one am happy to help. It can be hard.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline Tero

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 09:49:03 PM »
Well, maybe not for everybody. Some people would be OK never having religion but the same person may be very attached once raised religious.

Mostly it is a personal journey. No rush. You won't go to hell in any case. Our message of joy!

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2013, 01:36:41 AM »
@One Above All With these words I said that I don't know if I must stay Christian or join the Atheism because I have many documents in my possesions but I would like analyse them before to make my choice.

You've conveniently ignored one of my points: believe in unicorns by choice. Go ahead. I'll wait.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline viocjit

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2013, 09:06:00 AM »
@One Above All With these words I said that I don't know if I must stay Christian or join the Atheism because I have many documents in my possesions but I would like analyse them before to make my choice.

You've conveniently ignored one of my points: believe in unicorns by choice. Go ahead. I'll wait.

You say believe in unicorns but the problem is the next I don't know if the existence of God is like the unicorns.
I must view all documents in my possesion to be sure that God doesn't exist like the unicorns.
This is very complicate.
What is the complication ? I'm not yet saw all documents in my possesion about Atheism.

Online One Above All

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2013, 09:47:32 AM »
You say believe in unicorns but the problem is the next I don't know if the existence of God is like the unicorns.

Only because you don't understand it well enough

I must view all documents in my possesion to be sure that God doesn't exist like the unicorns.
This is very complicate.
What is the complication ? I'm not yet saw all documents in my possesion about Atheism.

Again, you've conveniently ignored my point, which I'll state one last time for clarification's sake, before smiting you for ignoring it (assuming you continue to ignore it after this post):
Belief is not a choice. If you think it is, start believing in unicorns by choice. Otherwise accept the truth.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline kindred

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2013, 10:58:54 PM »
The human brain functions on delusion so deconversion might be bad for you. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say atheism might be a mental illness. Things are much easier to deal with if you can always console yourself with the bullshit religion has to offer.

The human brain has needs that reality cannot meet, ever. Everybody thinks they're above average even though that is statistically impossible. Every asshole thinks they're nice, every below average person thinks they're normal etc. Taking away  religion would mean taking away one of the easiest and most efficient ways to meet the mental needs of people.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2013, 09:20:56 AM »
The human brain functions on delusion so deconversion might be bad for you. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say atheism might be a mental illness. Things are much easier to deal with if you can always console yourself with the bullshit religion has to offer.
I thought I had a pessimistic view of humanity...

Quote
The human brain has needs that reality cannot meet, ever. Everybody thinks they're above average even though that is statistically impossible. Every asshole thinks they're nice, every below average person thinks they're normal etc. Taking away  religion would mean taking away one of the easiest and most efficient ways to meet the mental needs of people.
This claim of "most efficient" completely disregards any of the potential negative consequences of magical thinking.  It's like claiming the incredible efficiency of the output of my 7500W power supply all the while ignoring the 1.21 gigawatts of juice I dissipate into the room in order to achieve that.
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Offline Tonus

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2013, 10:38:27 AM »
I think that the subconscious mind does work in large part by deceiving us in some way or another.  We have phobias and preconceived notions and biases and the like, many of which cause us to react based on something other than facts and objective understanding of a situation.  Religion can be one of those, but does not have to be.  It's not as if abandoning religion suddenly cures us of subjective thinking and clears away all of our biases and phobias and mental blocks and so on.  I think that we go through life constantly programming and re-programming our mind, rarely ever deliberately.

I do believe that religion comes with a pretty large set of minor mental land mines, and it makes leaving a religion a difficult and lengthy process.  Even when I'd accepted my atheism, it took a while to stop worrying that "maybe I was wrong" and that I risked missing out on a great reward from god.  That is to say, even when I was fully convinced that religion was bollocks, in some crevice in my brain I worried that it might not be.  Further reading and discussion and thought helped get me past that one, but I have no idea how many more of those land mines are sitting there, waiting for me to get too close.

Offline Lectus

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2013, 05:51:55 PM »
I believe it's a healthy thing to do. You should view life as close as possible to reality.

Making imaginary solutions won't better your life. Seeking actual solutions will better it.

I think most believers either suffer a trauma in life and get converted or come from a religious family.

If it's the first case for you then you should seek therapy to handle it in a realistic way.
Religion: The belief that an all powerful God or gods created the entire universe so that we tiny humans can be happy. And we also make war about it.

Offline neopagan

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2013, 07:28:44 PM »
For me, the deconversion process was incredibly frightening... since I had obviously buried my head in the sand for my 36 years of theistic life. When I finally stepped out on that limb... recognizing all those doubts I'd tucked away in the back of my head actually made SO MUCH MORE sense without the albatross of "god" hanging around my neck. 
I realized, religion/god/jesus/whatever was the only place I gave logic a pass - I didn't accept nonsense anywhere else in my life.  Without the magik man in the sky - everything makes sense now. 
So - from fear came absolute relief and I realized the fear was really just fear of what others would think - not fear of lightning strikes, hell, whatever.... sadly, I'm still in the closet with my family since it would devastate my wife who's not just head buried in the sand but full body buried in there.  So, in many ways I'm a hypocrite, but I can now live with that - maybe someday the closet door will slide open?
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Nick

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2013, 07:57:03 PM »
Do you find yourself dropping little hints or sarcasm now and then?

Also, what branch of delusion are/were you?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline neopagan

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2013, 08:00:47 PM »
I do indeed.  As a matter of fact, the wife picked up on it a couple times and told me if I had doubts about things I should "study the bible more."  Umm, yeah right.
Southern fried baptist was my poison.
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline viocjit

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Re: Deconversion , bad thing or good thing ?
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2013, 08:19:36 PM »
I think most believers either suffer a trauma in life and get converted or come from a religious family.

I'm ok with you , I know muslims who believe really in the islamic version of genesis , try to speak with them about the evolution theory and they will only speak about what say their holy book and don't hear you. I don't know Christians who believe really in genesis because the majority (Christians in my social network) take this text like a spiritual text and not a scientific text.

@neopagan I like what you say.

@Nick This is a bit confuse.