Author Topic: Is there any truth to this?  (Read 473 times)

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Offline One Above All

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Is there any truth to this?
« on: May 08, 2013, 04:18:27 PM »
I've heard on at least two separate occasions that EEG's were performed on plants, and that they responded to stimuli as you would expect a being with a nervous system to respond. Is there any truth to this, or is it something someone somewhere made up?
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Is there any truth to this?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2013, 04:27:59 PM »
Found this on Wikipedia:

Recent research

Recent research has shown that plants can respond to electrical impulses, but their lack of a central nervous system and nociceptive A delta fibers implies that plants have no feeling of pain.[8][ISBN missing]

The television show MythBusters performed an experiment (Season 2, Episode 5, 2006) to verify or disprove the concept. The tests were done by connecting plants to a polygraph galvanometer and employing actual and imagined harm upon the plants or upon others in the plant's vicinity. The galvanometer showed some kind of reaction about one third of the time. The experimenters, who were in the room with the plant, posited that the vibrations of their actions or the room itself could have affected the polygraph. After isolating the plant the polygraph showed a response slightly less than one third of the time. Later experiments with an EEG failed to detect anything. When the presenters dropped eggs randomly into boiling water the plant had no reaction whatsoever. The show concluded that the results were not repeatable, and that the theory was not true.[9]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_perception_(paranormal)

However, I can attest to the fact that plants don't like or respect me.  They die in my presence.  I even killed a particularly hearty cactus recently.  This is probably because the plants know that I am a vegetarian, and that I respect the lives of animals more than I respect their lives.   :(

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Is there any truth to this?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2013, 04:30:34 PM »
When the presenters dropped eggs randomly into boiling water the plant had no reaction whatsoever.

LOL. This just proves the plants are heartless, egg hating bastards.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Is there any truth to this?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2013, 05:22:15 PM »
That's why I don't sing to my plants.  It would be considered cruel and unusual punishment.
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Offline Bluecolour

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Re: Is there any truth to this?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2013, 08:13:30 PM »
I had this question in my head earlier this week:
If I pointed to a human being and asked you 'who is that?', you wouldn't have any problem finding an answer for me. If however, I were to pick up an orange and then pointing to it ask you 'who is this?' how could you answer me?

I found this link on the wiki plant perception page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_rights

While I am not surprised by anything in the article itself I am reminded of the strange premises on which we base many of our views. When we talk of 'life' most of us do so as if in complete ignorance to the modern scientific understanding of the topic. We still attach this air of mystery and (of consequence) reverence to the word as if it were anything more than a biological term. When we use terms like 'the sanctity of life', 'the value' or 'the right to life' you have to wonder what in gods name we are really saying.

It goes back to the question of the fruit. We don't feel that the life of a plant warrants the affixation of a who, some people are at odds concerning its attachment to animals and even with humans the who/what question remains a hot topic of discussion when comes into the matter of the unborn fetus. Frankly, the assumption of autonomy is what baffles me.
Yes the individualistic nature and thoughts of a person are more apparent to us than say those of an ape or a sheep but by what measure does one become more valid than the other? How do the sparks of life in the lowest cells and organs become sacred in view of the entire human structure? To what exactly are we attributing these dreamt up liberties and entitlements. If it is truly to 'life' then how are we excluding them to some creatures and not others?

Also, and with no disrespect to the views of anyone here, what does someone really mean when they say they respect the life of an animal? If you mean the physical fact that something is alive, then of course.  When I look at a living creature I can healthily acknowledge that it is in fact a functioning, self-sustaining creature capable of sentient thoughts and remarkable ingenuity. I can appreciate it's intelligence, its beauty, its complexity and its affectionate mind even as I appreciate its taste. That I respect its nature does not mean that I will not also enjoy watching it die. Knowing what it is will not prevent me from deriving pleasure as it endures the very uttermost suffering that its own complexity can provide.

My point is that the nature of the object does not dictate ones feelings towards the object and that feelings themselves are not instructive regarding ones behavior. I can respect my body even as I undertake surgery to enhance it, just as I can still enjoy steak after a trip to the slaughterhouse.
Discovering that plants could actually feel pain would not necessitate that we change our treatment of them nor would it suggest that we should in fact feel sorry for our cabbages every time we chopped them up to make a salad. Or does anyone here feel differently?

Offline Tinyal

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Re: Is there any truth to this?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2013, 08:37:01 PM »
Not that Nick particularly cares (I assume) what my opinion is, I found this statement of his to be rather worrisome - to the point that if one of my friends said the same thing, they would rapidly become a nonfriend: <bold mine>

"That I respect its nature does not mean that I will not also enjoy watching it die. Knowing what it is will not prevent me from deriving pleasure as it endures the very uttermost suffering that its own complexity can provide."

As far as I'm concerned, that's simply damm sadistic (as well as unnecessarily cruel).  Although I'm not a mental health professional, I don't have to be maintain my opinion those statements are not worthy of any friend of mine.

If a family member said that (instead of some faceless internet sadist), I'd do my utmost to get them treatment, and if that didn't work, I'd avoid them like the plague.

Otherwise, carry on.

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Online LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Is there any truth to this?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2013, 11:37:42 PM »

When we talk of 'life' most of us do so as if in complete ignorance to the modern scientific understanding of the topic. We still attach this air of mystery and (of consequence) reverence to the word as if it were anything more than a biological term. When we use terms like 'the sanctity of life', 'the value' or 'the right to life' you have to wonder what in gods name we are really saying.

Life as a biological term and life as the span of one's existence are two different things.
Quote
It goes back to the question of the fruit. We don't feel that the life of a plant warrants the affixation of a who, <snip>

If a plant was given to me by someone a care about I associate it with that person & do feel somewhat affectionate towards it.

 
Quote
Also, and with no disrespect to the views of anyone here, what does someone really mean when they say they respect the life of an animal?

I heard a pastor once say: "I love my dog.  I love my dog more than some of you.  But if any of you and my dog were drowning and I could only save one of you I would save you, because you are human."

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That I respect its nature does not mean that I will not also enjoy watching it die.

Eew.

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Knowing what it is will not prevent me from deriving pleasure as it endures the very uttermost suffering that its own complexity can provide.

EEW!

It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Online LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Is there any truth to this?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2013, 11:46:44 PM »

Quote from: Bluecolour link=topic=24870.msg553668#msg553668 date=1368148410


[quote
That I respect its nature does not mean that I will not also enjoy watching it die.



 Knowing what it is will not prevent me from deriving pleasure as it endures the very uttermost suffering that its own complexity can provide.

Have you ever watched anyone die?  I have, many times.  Trust me when I tell you there is no pleasure whatsoever in watching people endure the utmost suffering of a slow, painful death.




 
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline kin hell

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Re: Is there any truth to this?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2013, 12:59:44 AM »
Not that Nick particularly cares (I assume) what my opinion is, I found this statement of his to be rather worrisome
my bold.

Just pointing out Bluecolour said it not Nick





That I respect its nature does not mean that I will not also enjoy watching it die.



 Knowing what it is will not prevent me from deriving pleasure as it endures the very uttermost suffering that its own complexity can provide.

Have you ever watched anyone die?  I have, many times.  Trust me when I tell you there is no pleasure whatsoever in watching people endure the utmost suffering of a slow, painful death.

With all due respect Lori, that is an opinion coloured by your own sensibilities. Unfortunately there are those who would no doubt prove the exception to your rule.




 
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 01:06:59 AM by kin hell »
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all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Online LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Is there any truth to this?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2013, 02:37:29 AM »
Not that Nick particularly cares (I assume) what my opinion is, I found this statement of his to be rather worrisome
my bold.

Just pointing out Bluecolour said it not Nick





That I respect its nature does not mean that I will not also enjoy watching it die.



 Knowing what it is will not prevent me from deriving pleasure as it endures the very uttermost suffering that its own complexity can provide.

Have you ever watched anyone die?  I have, many times.  Trust me when I tell you there is no pleasure whatsoever in watching people endure the utmost suffering of a slow, painful death.

With all due respect Lori, that is an opinion coloured by your own sensibilities. Unfortunately there are those who would no doubt prove the exception to your rule.
I stand corrected, I'm sure there are a few sickos who find pleasure in other people's suffering and death.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Jag

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Re: Is there any truth to this?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2013, 07:54:34 AM »
^^^and apparently one of them hangs out here....  :o
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