Author Topic: What do you think about this conversation ?  (Read 426 times)

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Offline viocjit

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What do you think about this conversation ?
« on: May 05, 2013, 03:28:04 PM »
Hi ! I would like to tell to you a conversation about religion with my grand-parents.
Context : 05/may/2013 I said to them that I'm an Agnostic Christian and I explained why I'm hesitate between Atheism and Christianity.

1.I said to them that there are contradictions about the official history in the Bible about "Augustus" and my grand-father said something like this (French : Ce n'est pas un problème. Translation : This is not a problem). He said to me that this is not a problem , how we can be sure to be right if there are a problem like that ?

2.After we spoke about some political subjects and I explained why I believe that these things are against God. He said that this is not against God because God let the choice to have better. His argument was these verses [Matthew 25:14-30] (King James Version) :

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


When I heared his argument I thought something of this kind (French : C'est quoi le rapport ? Translation : What is the link ?).

3.We spoke about the afterlife and I explained that we have no reason to be sure about the existence of Heaven and Hell and They said to me a thing of this kind : (French : Il y a peut-être la réincarnation. Translation : There are maybe the reincarnation).

Conclusion : They are maybe not sure about the Christianity because they don't follow a classic path in spirituality.
What to do ?

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What do you think about this conversation ?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2013, 04:55:40 PM »
Hi ! I would like to tell to you a conversation about religion with my grand-parents.
Context : 05/may/2013 I said to them that I'm an Agnostic Christian and I explained why I'm hesitate between Atheism and Christianity.

1.I said to them that there are contradictions about the official history in the Bible about "Augustus" and my grand-father said something like"This is not a problem".

How we can be sure to be right if there are a problem like that ?

There is a problem, a big problem: we have no record at all of Jesus existing and we have no record of anything he is supposed to have said. The earliest documents are well after the time of his alleged death. The whole Bible is filled with contradictions and impossibilities.

2.After we spoke about some political subjects and I explained why I believe that these things are against God. He said that this is not against God because God let the choice to have better allowed us to make the better choice. His argument was these verses [Matthew 25:14-30] (King James Version) :

[The parable of the talents]

When I heard his argument I thought "What is the link?" [/quote]

Yes, I would have thought that too, but we do not know what the "political subjects" were.

Quote
3.We spoke about the afterlife and I explained that we have no reason to be sure about the existence of Heaven and Hell and They told me "There are maybe the reincarnation."

Conclusion : They are maybe not sure about the Christianity because they don't follow a classic path in spirituality.
What to do ?
1. Nobody follows a "classic path to spirituality" - every religious person chooses the parts of the Bible (or other holy book) that they like. This way, their god is created to be exactly the same as they are, with all the same thoughts and opinions.

2. I don't know how old your grandparents are, but it seems that they are too old to change their ways.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline viocjit

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Re: What do you think about this conversation ?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2013, 05:38:53 PM »
There is a problem, a big problem: we have no record at all of Jesus existing and we have no record of anything he is supposed to have said. The earliest documents are well after the time of his alleged death. The whole Bible is filled with contradictions and impossibilities.

I spoke about this fact and my grand-father said a thing like that : (French : Mais tu sais Flavius Josèphe parle de Jésus. English : But you know Titus Flavius Josephus speak about Jesus).

An article from Wikipedia about this historian or maybe a pseudo-historian : JosephusWiki


Yes, I would have thought that too, but we do not know what the "political subjects" were.


It was about things like "Feminists , Plastic Surgery (this is not really a political subject) , Adoption for homosexual couples etc..."

1. Nobody follows a "classic path to spirituality" - every religious person chooses the parts of the Bible (or other holy book) that they like. This way, their god is created to be exactly the same as they are, with all the same thoughts and opinions.


I said that to simplifed.

2. I don't know how old your grandparents are, but it seems that they are too old to change their ways.

GF : 68 or 69 years old (He never reveal his age and speak rarely about himself I find that weird).
GM : 79 years old

Offline anthony_retford

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Re: What do you think about this conversation ?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2013, 07:55:14 PM »
You should read more about Josephus and look at the most likely later additions to his work that just don't fit with his words. Also, why would the savior of the world only be written about by one writer? Doesn't this dilute his message? Also ask yourself why no other writers wrote about miracles, etc.?
People are 'erroneously confident' in their knowledge and underestimate the odds that their information or beliefs will be proved wrong. They tend to seek additional information in ways that confirm what they already believe.
Max Bazenman, Harvard University

Offline viocjit

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Re: What do you think about this conversation ?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2013, 11:59:37 AM »
@anthony_retford I'm ok with you but I never read Josephus , a day I will read some of these books.