Author Topic: Hey dudee. [#2740]  (Read 1241 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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Hey dudee. [#2740]
« on: April 28, 2013, 04:23:56 PM »
I just wanted to quickly hit a few small things.

First off, too many Christians compromise from their original beliefs to make room to fit God inside other thought patterns, but that was never His original intention, so don't base your view of Christianity off of those guys. I love how you do approach things from a 0% compromise point of view, maintaining all the different omni-s and even considering context of verses- most people who attack or screw up the Bible can't catch those things.

Second, with prayer, I guess we have to be really delicate. I do believe God is willing, can and will give anything, but He will not operate against the other things he sets in the Bible. It's kinda like taking a government programs simple explanation without considering all the different stipulations behind it. Check out Matt. 12:39 on what Jesus says about miracles or signs for belief. He also called John the Baptist the greatest prophet the world had seen, but John never performed a single miracle. One other crucial thing to keep in mind when you are talking about prayer is the times that Jesus prayed. "...thy will be done..." He prayed the whole night before His crucifixion that he might not have to take this cup (which, when you check up the context, isn't actually speaking about the cross but his present suffering in the garden), but that His Father's will would be done. These are just things from Jesus, but if we are looking at prayer from a Christian standpoint, then you have to consider that the whole Bible was written by divine inspiration, so there is a bunch more, but I don't think getting any deeper will make a difference for you.

Third off: We both believe impossibilities. Mathematically, evolution can't exist. Scientifically, it has yet to be proven beyond diversification (which I agree is wholly true). I'm sure you know the whole thing with odds and such. Same stands for God on there, but I'm not sure how much you get into discussions about the scientific side of it all, so I'll not touch that either. What I'm getting at here though is we need to figure out which model best interprets our evidence scientifically, and which one shows who we are logically.

I respect your approach to all of this, and am kinda surprised by it. Most people stick with origin, mainly cuz it makes more sense to go from start to finish, denying the legitimacy of something straight up front there. Anyways, I don't expect anything from what I've said to change anything you believe because I know we're both coming at this with our presuppositions. You already have it set in yourself that God exists, so anything that I give you won't make you reconsider yourself. It'll simply make you expand your argument to fit anything new in it. The Bible talks about this in Romans 1, so yahh.

Anyways, I'd much rather have you email me back before you throw this on the blog forums or whatever cuz then I'll be stuck on there forever. If you want to talk on here, I'm available, and if not, I do pray that you'll consider what I've said without any bias. Havee a good day broo.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline shnozzola

Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2013, 04:46:16 PM »
Well, I guess you're stuck on the blog forum forever - or until Jesus returns, huh?  Please join and let us know why evolution can't mathematically exist.
“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2013, 08:06:47 PM »
bm
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Nam

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 08:09:34 PM »
I just wanted to quickly hit a few small things.

Sure...

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First off, too many Christians compromise from their original beliefs to make room to fit God inside other thought patterns,

Like you?

Quote
...but that was never His original intention, so don't base your view of Christianity off of those guys.

like you?

Quote
I love how you do approach things from a 0% compromise point of view, maintaining all the different omni-s and even considering context of verses- most people who attack or screw up the Bible can't catch those things.

Like you?

Quote
Second, with prayer, I guess we have to be really delicate. I do believe God is willing, can and will give anything, but He will not operate against the other things he sets in the Bible.

So, Biblegod wrote the Bible?

Quote
It's kinda like taking a government programs simple explanation without considering all the different stipulations behind it. Check out Matt. 12:39 on what Jesus says about miracles or signs for belief. He also called John the Baptist the greatest prophet the world had seen, but John never performed a single miracle.

so, it was a lie?

Quote
One other crucial thing to keep in mind when you are talking about prayer is the times that Jesus prayed. "...thy will be done..." He prayed the whole night before His crucifixion that he might not have to take this cup (which, when you check up the context, isn't actually speaking about the cross but his present suffering in the garden), but that His Father's will would be done. These are just things from Jesus, but if we are looking at prayer from a Christian standpoint, then you have to consider that the whole Bible was written by divine inspiration, so there is a bunch more, but I don't think getting any deeper will make a difference for you.

So Biblegod did write the Bible?

Quote
Third off: We both believe impossibilities. Mathematically, evolution can't exist.

evidence?

Quote
Scientifically, it has yet to be proven beyond diversification (which I agree is wholly true).

evidence?

Quote
I'm sure you know the whole thing with odds and such. Same stands for God on there, but I'm not sure how much you get into discussions about the scientific side of it all, so I'll not touch that either.

Because you have no evidence?

Quote
What I'm getting at here though is we need to figure out which model best interprets our evidence scientifically, and which one shows who we are logically.

Yeah, that's what you need to do.

Quote
I respect your approach to all of this, and am kinda surprised by it. Most people stick with origin, mainly cuz it makes more sense to go from start to finish, denying the legitimacy of something straight up front there. Anyways, I don't expect anything from what I've said to change anything you believe because I know we're both coming at this with our presuppositions.

No, just you.

Quote
You already have it set in yourself that God exists,

um, no.

Quote
so anything that I give you won't make you reconsider yourself. It'll simply make you expand your argument to fit anything new in it. The Bible talks about this in Romans 1, so yahh.

So, "yahh".

Quote
Anyways, I'd much rather have you email me back before you throw this on the blog forums or whatever cuz then I'll be stuck on there forever.

Too late.

Quote
If you want to talk on here, I'm available, and if not, I do pray that you'll consider what I've said without any bias. Havee a good day broo.

Hey, man...broo...I think not.

-Nam
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 08:43:52 PM »
Third off: We both believe impossibilities. Mathematically, evolution can't exist. Scientifically, it has yet to be proven beyond diversification (which I agree is wholly true). I'm sure you know the whole thing with odds and such.

Explain.  How is evolution "mathematically impossible"?


Quote
Same stands for God on there, but I'm not sure how much you get into discussions about the scientific side of it all, so I'll not touch that either.


So god is impossible, yet you believe in him?  Not sure how that works...


Quote
What I'm getting at here though is we need to figure out which model best interprets our evidence scientifically, and which one shows who we are logically.

I'll stick to the one that has evidence to support it.  Once there is evidence for god, get back to us.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Tero

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 08:51:46 PM »
Quote
Mathematically, evolution can't exist.

There is no such math. It is impossible to calculate the "experiments" that were going on concurrently on early earth.

If someone proposes a step by step mechanism, then you can calculate the probability of those steps. But the conditions on earth were variable. You can't even model all the types of habitat where life could have done its experiments.

Yes, hard to believe, it was all trial and error. No brilliance.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 08:54:42 PM »
Maybe he means 0 cell plus 0 cell  = 0 cell. ( he goes on to talk about pre-suppositions both atheists and theists have. I assume by that he means theists assume God and atheists assume some other unexplained origin, or that life has always been ).
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2013, 09:07:16 PM »
Hey guys, I'm guessing that this writer is somewhere around the 2500 believer to write us (The letter number is 2740, but every once in a while we hear from non-believers. But this is just a guess) Anyway, lets say this guy is believer 2500. You know what that means?

That means that we've heard 2500 different versions of christianity.

You guys need to get together, have a conference, come up with one version, and then use that to hit us over the head with. In the meantime, all you've got is marshmallows, and we are armed with graham crackers and hershey bars. Smores, anyone?

Evolution not mathematically possible? But over half a million people staying lost in the desert for 40 years is? These guys can't even do incredulous right.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2013, 10:26:58 PM »
Maybe he means 0 cell plus 0 cell  = 0 cell. ( he goes on to talk about pre-suppositions both atheists and theists have. I assume by that he means theists assume God and atheists assume some other unexplained origin, or that life has always been ).

I think the dudee is attempting to speak intelligently but it's just coming out stupidly.

-Nam
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Offline Nam

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2013, 10:30:28 PM »
That means that we've heard 2500 different versions of christianity.

You mean we've heard about 2,499 that were the same (just worded differently), and 1 differently.

-Nam
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 05:48:17 AM »
(The author replies by email:)

----------

So I guess the email address I used automatically dropped me in the mailbox forum then, hopefully this one won't. I'm not a fan of big words mainly because most people won't catch them without googling it, but apparently this is fair reason for people to trash what I'm saying? You might want to talk to people about addressing capacity, mainly because the majority of people who will run into this site by accident won't catch what it is saying, and I don't believe it's fair to them that the majority of people on this website speak way beyond what the average person can comprehend. And if this ends up dumped into the mail bag again then I'm sorry I've neglected to cite or prove anything that I was talking about, I usually go with the idea that we all understand it. My bad.

For the mathematical thing, for a chain of random events to occur involving the formation of life, it is critical that all connections are positive or else the process begins again. This is outside of trial and error because there is nobody to test the results and modify and inputs. Assuming a 50/50 chance, even a chain involving 10 parts would have a 1/1024 chance of coming together. I'll be honest and say I don't know the odds involved in forming the simplest amino acids, and I probably should check that out.

Saying that my God is impossible also doesn't prove anything for you. I can see evidences of him in the world, but I can't actually observe Him in person. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any human was around at the time of the Big Bang or any other theories on the creation or formation of the world. You believe these because the evidence in the galaxy points you in that direction. I believe there is a God because any other explanation doesn't seem sufficient to me, and I've grown up hearing them.

If this is dropped into the mailbox again, sorry for the typos, sorry for my lack of indepth study of the universe, and sorry if anything I said was offensive (some of those responses seemed that way). If you could explain to me how I compromised any of my beliefs, I'd love to know. And I will say I pray for you, even if that means nothing to you.

Have a great day!
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Online kin hell

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 06:02:11 AM »
(The author replies by email:)>snip<

For the mathematical thing, for a chain of random events to occur involving the formation of life, it is critical that all connections are positive or else the process begins again. This is outside of trial and error because there is nobody to test the results and modify and inputs. Assuming a 50/50 chance, even a chain involving 10 parts would have a 1/1024 chance of coming together. I'll be honest and say I don't know the odds involved in forming the simplest amino acids, and I probably should check that out. >snip<


you have completely shifted the goalposts .....you initially said
Quote
Mathematically, evolution can't exist.
you were not talking about abiogenesis

Here below is a beautifully simple graphic regarding your original topic ...evolution. Hopes this help your understanding

"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Nick

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2013, 07:43:48 AM »
Well, at least we are being prayed for.


You know...with all the people who have prayed for us over the years you would think something would take.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2013, 07:45:32 AM »
(The author replies by email:)

----------
 I don't believe it's fair to them that the majority of people on this website speak way beyond what the average person can comprehend.

I don't see much in the way of extremely obscure or long words. Technical words like abiogenesis
aren't just pulled out of a hat, they are used when they are needed.

I've been pummelled by a bunch of apoligist troll on live journal for exactly the opposite thing, they refered to me as a "hillbilly" for rejecting "deontology" and other ivory tower apologist studies. I'm a shoe leather on concrete guy who admires applied intelligence. That's why I like the simple premise of this site: 'Why wont' god heal amputees?' Is is a simple question with a bluntly obvious answer "Because there isn't some interventionist God" All of the long winded apologists try to escape this bone simple truth with a lot of appeals to ignorance in fancy dress, and you,unfortunately, are buying it.


An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Nam

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2013, 07:47:24 AM »
(The author replies by email:)

----------

So I guess the email address I used automatically dropped me in the mailbox forum then, hopefully this one won't. I'm not a fan of big words mainly because most people won't catch them without googling it, but apparently this is fair reason for people to trash what I'm saying? You might want to talk to people about addressing capacity, mainly because the majority of people who will run into this site by accident won't catch what it is saying, and I don't believe it's fair to them that the majority of people on this website speak way beyond what the average person can comprehend. And if this ends up dumped into the mail bag again then I'm sorry I've neglected to cite or prove anything that I was talking about, I usually go with the idea that we all understand it. My bad.

For the mathematical thing, for a chain of random events to occur involving the formation of life, it is critical that all connections are positive or else the process begins again. This is outside of trial and error because there is nobody to test the results and modify and inputs. Assuming a 50/50 chance, even a chain involving 10 parts would have a 1/1024 chance of coming together. I'll be honest and say I don't know the odds involved in forming the simplest amino acids, and I probably should check that out.

Saying that my God is impossible also doesn't prove anything for you. I can see evidences of him in the world, but I can't actually observe Him in person. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any human was around at the time of the Big Bang or any other theories on the creation or formation of the world. You believe these because the evidence in the galaxy points you in that direction. I believe there is a God because any other explanation doesn't seem sufficient to me, and I've grown up hearing them.

If this is dropped into the mailbox again, sorry for the typos, sorry for my lack of indepth study of the universe, and sorry if anything I said was offensive (some of those responses seemed that way). If you could explain to me how I compromised any of my beliefs, I'd love to know. And I will say I pray for you, even if that means nothing to you.

Have a great day!

I never even finished high school and I comprehend a great deal stated on this website. If others are unable to comprehend what is stated on this website, then why even respond? Most wouldn't but then there are those who are just "Title Readers". You seem to be more in that vein. Perhaps you're the one who lacks comprehension and not the vast others you speak about.

Or perhaps it's you who thinks we don't understand "big words"? If so: complete nonsense. Like your "evidence".

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Tero

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2013, 06:10:51 PM »
I guess he does not understand the two step process. There is nothing totally random about the process. Of either abiogenesis or evolution. Each step, however trivial, undergoes a test. Does the sack of molecules in this membrane enclosed bag survive longer than the other sack of molecules next door that did something diffent?

1. change (random)
2. test (not random)
survivor
1. change
2. test
etc.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2013, 06:12:24 PM »
(The author replies by email:)

----------

Again, on this one I'm walking on some stuff that I haven't thoroughly studied, but with micro vs. macro, small changes can occur within a species and produce all different stuff (like how saying dog refers to hundreds of species there). However, for micro-evolution to change one family or genus, whichever one is next up on the scale, to another, it has to have tons of transitional forms which I'm pretty sure we haven't found yet. Again, I'm not completely certain of this one either, but for micro or diversification, doesn't it stay within genetic capabilities so that you have to have mutations for the transition? And if  that's true, aren't the majority of mutations harmful? So for this all to happen, there should be a massive amount of both failed and successful attempts over a long period of time which should have left at least some evidence in the fossil record or in old literature or something.

And just to give you an idea where I am coming from, I did finish high school and am currently in Bible college. I do believe in the accuracy and legitimacy of the Bible, and the only reason I wanted to throw in my 2 cents is because I keep realizing more and more that people try to bend what the Bible says to make it fit within something else. I work at a public high school as a persona assistant for kids with mental disabilities, and with all I see there, I think it's right to give people the opportunity to believe something other than what the school system throws at them (if any of yall haven't noticed, kids aren't taught how to think for themselves anymore).

Anyways, I gotta design a huge chunk of a yearbook quick, so catch yall later!
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline shnozzola

Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2013, 06:34:58 PM »
For the mathematical thing, for a chain of random events to occur involving the formation of life, it is critical that all connections are positive or else the process begins again. This is outside of trial and error because there is nobody to test the results and modify and inputs. Assuming a 50/50 chance, even a chain involving 10 parts would have a 1/1024 chance of coming together.

   Here's the thing about evolution.  As science has slowly linked the pieces and is not only proving it, but understanding it, evolution is one of main nails in the coffin of religion and I understand why religious purist fight against it - 6000 yr old earthists, noahists, etc.

   The variety of basic chemical reactions that would have started naturally with different amounts of heat and positive/negative reactions would have been going on all at once, say one billion times a day.  But the real, very cool factor that people never give credit to is simple time - how many days have those natural chemical reactions been going on now.  Just the natural resistance we see in insects, bacteria, viruses, human diseases, changes in plants are actual day to day proof of how possible and actual evolution is - yes, virginia - this earth actually built "man" on it's own.  Much more cool than goddidit.

Quote
I'll be honest and say I don't know the odds involved in forming the simplest amino acids, and I probably should check that out.

You should.  Google it.
“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline Nam

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2013, 07:16:00 PM »
Bible College: no bias there.

-Nam
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Offline Tero

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2013, 09:05:45 PM »
There is no difference between micro and macro evolution, so I never use the terms. Macro is just a bunch of micros in a string. Species is a construct we use to simplify things we explain, but there really are no species. Just lines.

See the post above in the thread with the red and blue colors.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2013, 10:51:42 AM »
Again, on this one I'm walking on some stuff that I haven't thoroughly studied, but with micro vs. macro, small changes can occur within a species and produce all different stuff (like how saying dog refers to hundreds of species there). However, for micro-evolution to change one family or genus, whichever one is next up on the scale, to another, it has to have tons of transitional forms which I'm pretty sure we haven't found yet. Again, I'm not completely certain of this one either, but for micro or diversification, doesn't it stay within genetic capabilities so that you have to have mutations for the transition? And if  that's true, aren't the majority of mutations harmful? So for this all to happen, there should be a massive amount of both failed and successful attempts over a long period of time which should have left at least some evidence in the fossil record or in old literature or something.

Prehaps it might be a good idea to research the subject before talking about it.  Just saying...


Quote
And just to give you an idea where I am coming from, I did finish high school and am currently in Bible college.

Nope, no chance for bias here...


Quote
I keep realizing more and more that people try to bend what the Bible says to make it fit within something else.

Most of those people are christains, trying to make the bible fit in with modern senseabilities.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Tonus

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2013, 03:17:01 PM »
It has been my experience, both personal and on forums like this one, that few theists have sufficient understanding of how evolution works, or why there is no debate amongst biologists regarding its validity as a scientific theory.  Without that understanding, we will simply go around in circles because what the theist believes regarding evolution is not what biologists have learned about it.

All of the talk about odds, and how micro and macro are different, and about transitional fossils, and how it's not possible due to mathematics or DNA or irreducible complexity... all of it proceeds from an incorrect approach and understanding of evolutionary theory.  It may be deliberate, it may be a function of being taught to think that way in order to protect the belief system.  But until it is overcome and the theist learns to understand evolution from the scientific standpoint and not the superstitious one, the discussion will stall.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2013, 01:05:44 PM »
Trying to guess statistical odds for or against something is tough unless you've studied statistics pretty thoroughly.  I consider myself a knowledgeable layman when it comes to statistics, yet I still wouldn't want to actually try to formulate the odds about something happening (or not happening).

Nonetheless, I know enough to say that it's not at all unlikely that life could have happened by pure chance, because there are literally trillions of planets throughout the universe, and there are certainly billions that are similar enough to Earth to support our kind of life.  Given that wide a spread, even something that seems highly improbable is certainly possible.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2013, 11:25:16 PM »
I just wanted to quickly hit a few small things.

First off, too many Christians compromise from their original beliefs to make room to fit God inside other thought patterns, but that was never His original intention, so don't base your view of Christianity off of those guys.

What kind of Christian are you? You didn't say.


Second, with prayer, I guess we have to be really delicate. I do believe God is willing, can and will give anything, but He will not operate against the other things he sets in the Bible. It's kinda like taking a government programs simple explanation without considering all the different stipulations behind it.

Have you noticed that "god" hasn't made any stipulations on prayer? He doesn't say that it is okay to pray for whatever you want but not on Wednesdays because I have a serious gold addiction to address.


One other crucial thing to keep in mind when you are talking about prayer is the times that Jesus prayed. "...thy will be done..." He prayed the whole night before His crucifixion that he might not have to take this cup (which, when you check up the context, isn't actually speaking about the cross but his present suffering in the garden), but that His Father's will would be done. These are just things from Jesus, but if we are looking at prayer from a Christian standpoint, then you have to consider that the whole Bible was written by divine inspiration, so there is a bunch more, but I don't think getting any deeper will make a difference for you.

I don't think you got deep enough for me to understand what you are even talking about. You stated it was a crucial thing but failed to elaborate on what exactly is crucial and why. I find it crucial to prove that Jesus even existed before you quote him in any context that is more important than a comparative review of The Canterbury Tales.

And from what standpoint are you looking at prayer if not he Christian standpoint?


Third off: We both believe impossibilities. Mathematically, evolution can't exist.

Please explain further.


Scientifically, it has yet to be proven beyond diversification (which I agree is wholly true).

Please refer to my first reply at the top of this entry.


I'm sure you know the whole thing with odds and such.

Odds, as such, are a part of my daily work life.


Same stands for God on there, but I'm not sure how much you get into discussions about the scientific side of it all, so I'll not touch that either.

Since science requires experimentation, analysis and proofs, we value science of just how cool you think Jesus may be.

What I'm getting at here though is we need to figure out which model best interprets our evidence scientifically, and which one shows who we are logically.

Who is we?

I respect your approach to all of this, and am kinda surprised by it. Most people stick with origin, mainly cuz it makes more sense to go from start to finish, denying the legitimacy of something straight up front there.

Do you mean my position that since your god cannot logically exist then everything forthwith is immediately irrelevant?

Anyways, I don't expect anything from what I've said to change anything you believe because I know we're both coming at this with our presuppositions. You already have it set in yourself that God exists, so anything that I give you won't make you reconsider yourself. It'll simply make you expand your argument to fit anything new in it. The Bible talks about this in Romans 1, so yahh.

So, yahh, dude.  Cool! Got it!

Anyways, I'd much rather have you email me back before you throw this on the blog forums or whatever cuz then I'll be stuck on there forever. If you want to talk on here, I'm available, and if not, I do pray that you'll consider what I've said without any bias. Havee a good day broo.

Hehehe.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Energized

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2013, 03:37:40 PM »
I don't really understand why people send an email making statements that they later admit they don't understand.

Dudee - it would be a real shame if you didn't join the board to discuss these things. Unlike a lot of other christians, you seem to readily admit there are things you don't understand - why not join (with an open mind) and we can discuss them. Afterall, if you ask us to consider your point of view, you should reciprocate in kind.

E.
'O pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
O damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps it is time to die?'

~Enma Ai, Jigoku Shoujo

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2013, 04:57:34 PM »
Dudee, look up nylonase, and learn about bacteria that have evolved the abilty to digest nylon.

Since nylon is a man-made product that did not exist when Noah built the ark, where did the bacteria learn to eat nylon? Scientists, ie people who know sh!t, think that there was a useful mutation in some bacteria that enabled them to produce an new enzyme, nylonase, that can digest nylon.

Evil atheists in Japan have tested this out and have made some other bacteria in a lab mutate until they also evolved to eat nylon. This is pretty good recent evidence in favor of evolution. There are about a zillion other examples of this kind of thing, both in nature and in the lab.

Other than the bible and nice feelings, whatcha got? &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2013, 06:27:51 PM »
I just wanted to quickly hit a few small things.

Oh now that’s not nice to hit things, what did they ever do to you?

Quote
First off, too many Christians compromise from their original beliefs to make room to fit God inside other thought patterns, but that was never His original intention, so don't base your view of Christianity off of those guys.

Well what exactly would that be? Besides, considering how almost all of Christians can’t seem to agree with how the Bible itself should be interpreted. Also, I noticed how some Christians like to do the exact opposite of what Jesus teaches, which I supposed is what you were trying to get at such as “love thy neighbor,” “give your money to the poor,” and more. From what I guess, your view point about those other Christians you disagree with is no different from what they thought of your view point too. One thing for sure, no one follows the bible literally and seem to steer from a lot of what was being said in the bible on what you should do.

 
Quote
I love how you do approach things from a 0% compromise point of view, maintaining all the different omni-s and even considering context of verses- most people who attack or screw up the Bible can't catch those things.

Second, with prayer, I guess we have to be really delicate. I do believe God is willing, can and will give anything, but He will not operate against the other things he sets in the Bible. It's kinda like taking a government programs simple explanation without considering all the different stipulations behind it.

But if he’s willing and can give anything, then why would he do so if he is not going to go against his own Bible? Wouldn’t that in fact be contradicting? “I’m willing to give, but I can’t give due to my own rules I set in place.”

Quote
Check out Matt. 12:39 on what Jesus says about miracles or signs for belief. He also called John the Baptist the greatest prophet the world had seen, but John never performed a single miracle. One other crucial thing to keep in mind when you are talking about prayer is the times that Jesus prayed. "...thy will be done..." He prayed the whole night before His crucifixion that he might not have to take this cup (which, when you check up the context, isn't actually speaking about the cross but his present suffering in the garden), but that His Father's will would be done. These are just things from Jesus, but if we are looking at prayer from a Christian standpoint, then you have to consider that the whole Bible was written by divine inspiration, so there is a bunch more, but I don't think getting any deeper will make a difference for you.

I’m not sure I understand this, and I would like to understand what you’re saying. It sounds like you’re saying that the will of God can be only from Jesus, but anyone else who prayers is just simply an inspiration like it’s merely symbolical and nothing more.

Quote
Third off: We both believe impossibilities. Mathematically, evolution can't exist.

What? Mathematically? Evolution has been proven very much indeed, but what did you mean by mathematically? Evolution is not impossible.
Quote
Scientifically, it has yet to be proven beyond diversification (which I agree is wholly true). I'm sure you know the whole thing with odds and such. Same stands for God on there, but I'm not sure how much you get into discussions about the scientific side of it all, so I'll not touch that either. What I'm getting at here though is we need to figure out which model best interprets our evidence scientifically, and which one shows who we are logically.

Well, there just has never been any scientific proof of a god, especially with no evidence to support the claims from the religious texts, but with evolution, it’s proven big time.

Quote
I respect your approach to all of this, and am kinda surprised by it. Most people stick with origin, mainly cuz it makes more sense to go from start to finish, denying the legitimacy of something straight up front there. Anyways, I don't expect anything from what I've said to change anything you believe because I know we're both coming at this with our presuppositions.

Well, things can change, if you can just prove that the Bible is true and that God exists.

Quote
You already have it set in yourself that God exists,

What? I don’t believe that a God exists unless you have evidence.

[/quote] so anything that I give you won't make you reconsider yourself. It'll simply make you expand your argument to fit anything new in it. The Bible talks about this in Romans 1, so yahh. [/quote]

Not so, I for one am willing to reconsider things if you can provide evidences. What you’re doing is merely trying to ramble and back away in fear as if we were going to bite you or something.

Quote
Anyways, I'd much rather have you email me back before you throw this on the blog forums or whatever cuz then I'll be stuck on there forever. If you want to talk on here, I'm available, and if not, I do pray that you'll consider what I've said without any bias. Havee a good day broo.

This is going on the forum anyway, so tough luck.
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline Nam

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Re: Hey dudee. [#2740]
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2013, 06:46:47 PM »
I just wanted to quickly hit a few small things.

Liar.

Quote
First off, too many Christians compromise from their original beliefs to make room to fit God inside other thought patterns, but that was never His original intention, so don't base your view of Christianity off of those guys.

The 99.9%?

Quote
I love how you do approach things from a 0% compromise point of view, maintaining all the different omni-s and even considering context of verses- most people who attack or screw up the Bible can't catch those things.

So it's not "commentary" or "discussion" but "attacks" and "screwing up"?

Quote
Second, with prayer, I guess we have to be really delicate. I do believe God is willing, can and will give anything, but He will not operate against the other things he sets in the Bible. It's kinda like taking a government programs simple explanation without considering all the different stipulations behind it. Check out Matt. 12:39 on what Jesus says about miracles or signs for belief. He also called John the Baptist the greatest prophet the world had seen, but John never performed a single miracle.

Well, John the Baptist just wasn't a good enough "vessel", I reckon.

Quote
One other crucial thing to keep in mind when you are talking about prayer is the times that Jesus prayed. "...thy will be done..." He prayed the whole night before His crucifixion that he might not have to take this cup (which, when you check up the context, isn't actually speaking about the cross but his present suffering in the garden), but that His Father's will would be done. These are just things from Jesus, but if we are looking at prayer from a Christian standpoint, then you have to consider that the whole Bible was written by divine inspiration, so there is a bunch more, but I don't think getting any deeper will make a difference for you.

So, Jesus wasn't Biblegod in human form?

Quote
Third off: We both believe impossibilities.

What impossibilities do I believe?

Quote
Mathematically, evolution can't exist.

how so?

Quote
Scientifically, it has yet to be proven beyond diversification (which I agree is wholly true). I'm sure you know the whole thing with odds and such. Same stands for God on there, but I'm not sure how much you get into discussions about the scientific side of it all, so I'll not touch that either. What I'm getting at here though is we need to figure out which model best interprets our evidence scientifically, and which one shows who we are logically.

Is there logic in believing in something one can't show actually exists?

Quote
I respect your approach to all of this, and am kinda surprised by it. Most people stick with origin, mainly cuz it makes more sense to go from start to finish, denying the legitimacy of something straight up front there. Anyways, I don't expect anything from what I've said to change anything you believe because I know we're both coming at this with our presuppositions. You already have it set in yourself that God exists,

How have we said "God exists"?

Quote
.. so anything that I give you won't make you reconsider yourself. It'll simply make you expand your argument to fit anything new in it. The Bible talks about this in Romans 1, so yahh.

So yahh.

Quote
Anyways, I'd much rather have you email me back before you throw this on the blog forums or whatever cuz then I'll be stuck on there forever. If you want to talk on here, I'm available, and if not, I do pray that you'll consider what I've said without any bias. Havee a good day broo.

Broo?

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?