Author Topic: Free speech and free boobs  (Read 1792 times)

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Offline Fiji

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Free speech and free boobs
« on: April 26, 2013, 12:46:38 AM »
On tuesday, Archbishop Leonard of Brussels-Mechelen gave a speech at the Université Libre de Bruxelles on the subject of blasphemy and free speech.
And he definitely got some free speech ...

http://www.clint.be/actua/blote-borsten-en-een-frisse-douche-voor-leonard-fotospecial-gallery

They mostly protested his homophobia. Leonard has been a target of similar actions (though with fewer breasts and more pies) twice before.

Now, as a side note, I've often wondered, if all women did that, just bare their breasts whenever they felt like it ... how long would it be before boobs would cease to titillate? You might think DECADES! But, would it really be that long? Would it take more than a year or two ... if that?
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 07:24:20 AM »
Cultural taboos are just cultural taboos.  And while other people's taboos seems silly to us, our own taboos seem
perfectly reasonable.

We find ways to test the limits of the taboos.  Most women would not feel comfortable walking down the streets of NYC with their bare breasts showing.  But few of us are offended by the sight of a woman in a cocktail dress, with her breasts squished together to create some unnatural sort of cleavage.

In cultures in which the sight of a woman's hair is too intimate, there are lots of ways to test the limits.  I have to say, I think hijabs are really pretty, and lots of women in my neighborhood wear them. Some folks say the hijab is oppressive.   





I think the hair thing is just someone else's taboo.  And quite frankly, it is no more silly or oppressive than covering your breasts.

Another high fashion modesty item when it comes to hair is the sheitel.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheitel Also, lots of NYC women wandering around museums and Broadways shows covering their hair with wigs.  Most of which, I suspect, are sexier than the hair they are hiding from all eyes but their husband's. 



We also have several Christian sects that think it is immodest for a woman to show her shoulders, or expose her leg above her ankle.  Some Mormon sects have no problem showing their hair, but consider other parts of their body to be immodest.



I don't think that the full-quiver Duggar family allows the girls to show their shoulders or knees. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_Kids_and_Counting  But I think they are ok with ankles.   



So yeah.  Silly taboos.  But, in the unlikely event that I get to meet Prince Charles, even if it is a very hot day, I think I'll wear a blouse.


Offline Fiji

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 08:02:48 AM »
I'm reminded of something Ana Kasparian once said.
While on a trip to France, she freaked out seeing an ad featuring breasts. Then, she looked around and noticed that none of the natives were freaking out in the slightest.

So yeah.  Silly taboos.  But, in the unlikely event that I get to meet Prince Charles, even if it is a very hot day, I think I'll wear a blouse.



If you ever do meet Prince Charles ... I recommend a suit or armor.  ;)
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Offline Dante

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 08:09:51 AM »



At the risk of sounding ever so sexist.....Dayum! Those ladies are smokin' hot!
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 10:05:41 AM »
At the risk of sounding ever so sexist.....Dayum! Those ladies are smokin' hot!

They're very pretty, but who the heck knows what all they've got going on below?  The opposite of buttah faces, maybe.



It'd be awesome if Angela Merkel greeted foreign leaders at the airport topless.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 04:37:34 PM »
What they got going on below is none of yer beeswax. That's the point of a full hijab. You don't get to see unless you are supposed to see it.

As for the bare breasts; when I lived in central Africa, women did not want large breasts--they were considered very ugly and uncomfortable.  How big did something need to be to feed a baby with? A woman being topless was no big deal, because, as the men said, breasts are mainly for babies. They asked me what was wrong with US men, since they seemed so overly obsessed with "baby things". :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 07:03:24 AM »
They asked me what was wrong with US men, since they seemed so overly obsessed with "baby things".

If they think we're weirdos, they should meet the japanese.  Whole island's full of perverts.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 10:35:37 AM »
Extremely polite perverts. :angel:
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Traveler

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 11:12:22 AM »
The same goes for men's parts too, by the way. The men of the Yanomamo tribe in south america wore nothing but a cord which held their penis up against their body. If the cord slipped so that their penis fell down they were considered naked.

These are simply cultural normals. I think the only thing wrong with things like hajibs or anything else, is that some people are forced to wear them. Its the force that's oppressive, not the particular outfit. There are also various methods of force. Making something illegal at one end of the spectrum. A society that has a great deal of peer pressure is simply a milder form of force. I recall as a teenager, with respect to swim suits. I was very slender, and I looked good in a bikini. BUT, there were times when I simply wanted to wear something more practical for swimming.  My favorite, if peer pressure were not a factor, might have been something like a one piece suit with legs on it, at least an inch or two long (like shorts). But such a thing was considered silly or old looking or whatever. It would have been ever so practical. Wouldn't have to shave so high that one gets a rash, wouldn't have to worry about things riding up, or falling off on top. And yet, I never dared to seek one out (if they even made them) because I was afraid of peer shaming. Sad that we simply can't let people be, and express, whatever they want.

ETA: One more example. A friend of mine was at a retreat where they had a "swimsuit optional" hot tub. Seems that everyone interpreted that as a nude hot tub, so she didn't want to go in. Luckily, a friend told her that swimsuits were fine, even though everyone else was nude. Perceived peer pressure can be so strong, even when its only our own internal voices doing it to us.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 11:15:09 AM by Traveler »
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 04:05:51 PM »
^^^Years ago I went on a research retreat at a hippie place in California. There was a giant hot tub and after dinner everyone was going to go continue the meeting there.  :?

I was putting on my swimsuit, and then I saw that all the other people were getting in naked. I would have been the only one in a suit and I imagined that everyone would point and stare and talk about me behind my clothed back.  :-[

So, peer pressure, nudist style had me sitting in hot water with a bunch of naked professorial colleagues of all races, genders and orientations,(including two male senior professors) chatting about social theory, naked as the day I was born.:o

It was one of the strangest cultural experiences I have ever had. When I called my husband that night, I must have sounded like a 1950's 13 year old after her first boy-girl dance party. &) ;D
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Dante

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2013, 08:20:18 AM »
MMMmmm......nekkid hot tubbin'! One of my faves!
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 06:59:46 PM »
Ok.  Had to search for this thread because my humble outer boro neighborhood just made the chichi NY Times fashion video blog known as Intersection.  And what are most of the fashionable women wearing in this portrait of NYC fashion?  Hijabs!

Here is the original piece, along with all of the other videos of mostly pretty insipid people talking about fashion and why they are beautiful. 

http://www.nytimes.com/video/2013/06/24/fashion/100000002299919/intersection-modern-takes-on-tradition-jackson-heights-queens-new-york-city.html?emc=tnt?emc=tnt?emc=tnt?emc=tnt

For those who don't want to follow the link and learn all about fashion on the Upper East Side, the L Train influences, and the Hip Hop Meets Hipster in Bed Stuy, I found that someone has already put it on youtube.   It is entitled Modern Takes On Tradition:



Offline Fiji

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2013, 01:24:41 AM »
Dresses modestly to be closer to her religion, uses bright color because she doesn't want to seem dull/boring ... why were women supposed to cover up again, in Islam?  :?
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2013, 04:27:55 PM »
'Cause it says so in the book, that's why. There is no consistent logic to the hijab. Like other stuff people do, it's a cultural variable. I have Muslim African students who "modestly" cover their heads, but have on low-cut blouses, spike heels and jeans so tight you can see Brazil.[1]
 1. And you should see what the girls wear! ;D
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 05:54:28 AM »
Dresses modestly to be closer to her religion, uses bright color because she doesn't want to seem dull/boring ... why were women supposed to cover up again, in Islam?  :?

I refer back to my original response to the OP.  Other people's taboos seems silly to us, and our taboos seem perfectly reasonable.  I would not walk through Time Square with my bare breasts showing.  But women can be seen in the neighborhood with their breasts squished together and a ridiculous amount of unnatural cleavage showing.  Why is the former a taboo and the latter ok? 

Edited to add:  I keep posting this hijab stuff in the bare boobs thread because I really think that the issues are the same. 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 06:11:50 AM by Quesi »

Offline Fiji

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2013, 07:29:33 AM »
Dresses modestly to be closer to her religion, uses bright color because she doesn't want to seem dull/boring ... why were women supposed to cover up again, in Islam?  :?

I refer back to my original response to the OP.  Other people's taboos seems silly to us, and our taboos seem perfectly reasonable.  I would not walk through Time Square with my bare breasts showing.  But women can be seen in the neighborhood with their breasts squished together and a ridiculous amount of unnatural cleavage showing.  Why is the former a taboo and the latter ok? 
Though, correct me if I'm wrong, but leagally you could, right?


Edited to add:  I keep posting this hijab stuff in the bare boobs thread because I really think that the issues are the same. 

The typical theist doublethink amused me
Science: I'll believe it when I see it
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Online Mrjason

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Re: Free speech and free boobs
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2013, 08:24:44 AM »
so much for this Fiji ;)

:( They're on to me!

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