Author Topic: GOD IS SILENT  (Read 1957 times)

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Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2014, 08:01:09 AM »

Okay...so this "god" is absent, and silent.

Because it does literally nothing, it is as evident as nothing, and thus is nothing.

That is so gloomy.

Not if the silence and absence is for our own good.


Don't make me start singing...Oh hell here I go :o  Well not me literally use your imagination...


Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2014, 08:43:54 AM »
Junebug.

Look at it this way.

I say that there is a all powerful, all loving couch that is everywhere at once, but does not do anything, and cannot be seen in any way.

Would you say it exists?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2014, 09:03:37 AM »
Junebug.

Look at it this way.

I say that there is a all powerful, all loving couch that is everywhere at once, but does not do anything, and cannot be seen in any way.

Would you say it exists?

I would rationalize, if it's a loving couch it's absence and silence was a loving act.


Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2014, 09:04:31 AM »
I would rationalize, if it's a loving couch it's absence and silence was a loving act.

So would you, or would you not believe my claim of such a couch?

I say it is all loving, and cannot be sensed in any way.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2014, 09:36:22 AM »
I would rationalize, if it's a loving couch it's absence and silence was a loving act.

So would you, or would you not believe my claim of such a couch?

I say it is all loving, and cannot be sensed in any way.

It doesn't matter if I believe you as long as it doesn't bother me or anyone else and that includes you.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2014, 10:11:26 AM »
It doesn't matter if I believe you as long as it doesn't bother me or anyone else and that includes you.

Okay...

So your god, is silent, and is loving, correct?

Now remove the god, is there any change?
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline screwtape

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2014, 10:22:01 AM »
I would rationalize, if it's a loving couch it's absence and silence was a loving act.

How would you know whether it was a loving couch?  Reputation alone?  We know things about people by what other people say about them and what we observe.  If the observations do not match the reputation, we have to rectify our opinions, yes?

So with the couch, people may say it is a loving couch, but does its absence not betray that description? 

Similarly, with a god, though it may have a reputation for being loving & good & kittens & cupcakes, you have to look at what the god is really like to know whether that is a deserved reputation.  I know you have already decided that the bible is a pack of lies, primarily because the god described there definitely is not kittens & cupcakes.  So how do you know what god really is?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2014, 11:06:51 AM »
I would rationalize, if it's a loving couch it's absence and silence was a loving act.

How would you know whether it was a loving couch?  Reputation alone?  We know things about people by what other people say about them and what we observe.  If the observations do not match the reputation, we have to rectify our opinions, yes?

So with the couch, people may say it is a loving couch, but does its absence not betray that description? 

Similarly, with a god, though it may have a reputation for being loving & good & kittens & cupcakes, you have to look at what the god is really like to know whether that is a deserved reputation.  I know you have already decided that the bible is a pack of lies, primarily because the god described there definitely is not kittens & cupcakes.  So how do you know what god really is?

There is more than that to my disbelief in the bible.  There are historical facts and scientific evidence. 

I think every one should discover that for themselves.  That is the whole point.  The silence either means God does not exist or that God is silent for a reason.  I believe the latter.   

I believe in "God" because I believe knowledge was/is necessary for us to exist. 

No I do not think the absence of the couch betrays that description if that couch has blessed you with the capability to do good for one another.  Like I said before I see it as trust.  If that couches presence completely interferes with our choices then it seems logical to me that the couch would be absent.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2014, 11:10:29 AM »
I believe in "God" because I believe knowledge was/is necessary for us to exist. 

So your god has zero proof?
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2014, 11:34:36 AM »
I believe in "God" because I believe knowledge was/is necessary for us to exist. 

So your god has zero proof?

There is no absolute knowledge AA.  You perceive things your way I perceive things my way. 

Not everybody has to touch or see something to believe it.  I see lots of proof but that is my perception.  We could all look at the same ink blots and see different things.  Why do you think that is?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2014, 11:42:29 AM »
There is no absolute knowledge AA.  You perceive things your way I perceive things my way. 

I must beg to differ.

I "know" that a square has four sides, because by definition it must have four sides.

We could all look at the same ink blots and see different things.  Why do you think that is?

Perception, illusion, and delusion.

Not everybody has to touch or see something to believe it.  I see lots of proof but that is my perception.

Can you list some examples?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2014, 12:20:34 PM »
There is no absolute knowledge AA.  You perceive things your way I perceive things my way. 

I must beg to differ.

I "know" that a square has four sides, because by definition it must have four sides.

We could all look at the same ink blots and see different things.  Why do you think that is?

Perception, illusion, and delusion.

Not everybody has to touch or see something to believe it.  I see lots of proof but that is my perception.

Can you list some examples?

Why illusion and delusion?  It's just ink blots.  It is only perception unless you can convince me otherwise.

Yes I could but it wouldn't matter to you.  It only matters to me. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2014, 12:23:46 PM »
Why illusion and delusion?  It's just ink blots.  It is only perception unless you can convince me otherwise.

Illusion:an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience.

Delusion:an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument.

Yes I could but it wouldn't matter to you.  It only matters to me. 

Irrelevant, I would like to know what they are.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2014, 12:44:00 PM »
Why illusion and delusion?  It's just ink blots.  It is only perception unless you can convince me otherwise.

Illusion:an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience.

Delusion:an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument.

Yes I could but it wouldn't matter to you.  It only matters to me. 

Irrelevant, I would like to know what they are.

OK so you've defined the words I still do not see how they relate to an ink blot test.  You can not misinterpret an ink blot. 

How is seeing an ink blot look like a butterfly shape delusional if it looks like a butterfly. 

I will do this for you if you give me a really good reason why I should.  The fact that I believe it wouldn't matter to you is relevant. 

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline screwtape

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2014, 01:33:58 PM »
There is more than that to my disbelief in the bible.

yeah, I know. That was why I said "primarily" and not "exclusively".   And the why was not altogether the point.

No I do not think the absence of the couch betrays that description if that couch has blessed you with the capability to do good for one another.

But how do you know it was the couch that blessed you with that capability?  Are you sure it wasn't the ottoman or the rolling office chair? I know all the couchites say the ottoman is evil, but let's face it, they never met the couch or the ottoman themselves, so they are just going on someone else's say so.  So how reliable are they, really?

If that couches presence completely interferes with our choices then it seems logical to me that the couch would be absent.

Well, if the couchites are to be believed, the couch used to appear to ancient tribes and they still went off and worshipped a barcalounger.  Fucking heathens.  So, if the couch's presence did not have enough power to prevent that then I cannot see how the argument holds any water.

If I had the couch's power and did nothing to help anyone, that would be immoral, innit?  So I don't see how the couch's absence can be a good thing.


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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2014, 02:39:07 PM »
I find this whole "couch" discussion hilarious. I keep thinking of The Cranberries and the TV show Friends.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2014, 03:01:22 PM »
My gut is hurting I laughed so hard.  Thanks screwtape.

Who knows what our ancient ancestors saw.  There is a show called ancient aliens.  I believe the jury is still out on that as well.  They make a decent argument though.

Yes you're right the couchites should be believable.  I'm too busy laughing to spoil this comic break.  I don't think I'll ever sit on my couch again w/o laughing.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2014, 06:47:17 PM »
I would argue that our interpretation of an ink blot is imagination rather than delusion. Human beings seem hardwired to interpret data, whether visual or otherwise. An ink blot (or cloud or tea leaves or whatever) might look like a butterfly to one of us, a demon to another, a little kid flying a kite to another. Those interpretations might or might not say anything definitive about the person describing it, but the ink blot is not an actual butterfly, or demon, or whatever ... it is an abstract form that is interpreted by a human being.

Personally, I think experiences of god are similar. A person has an experience. Some describe it as god, another as imagination, another as spirit, or mother earth, or our innermost self. To me, the experience is important. Our interpretation a little less so. And a label least of all. Why? Because "inner" experiences are very difficult to describe, and most labels are biased by our upbringing and current beliefs. Furthermore, choosing a label like god (or demon, angel, ghost, etc) all carry baggage.  Ultimately, we often think we're communicating with each other, but we really aren't, because we rarely agree on the label's definition.
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2014, 11:39:35 PM »
I think every one should discover that for themselves.  That is the whole point.  The silence either means God does not exist or that God is silent for a reason.  I believe the latter.   

I believe in "God" because I believe knowledge was/is necessary for us to exist. 

What if you're a kid who gets his first quantum computer for his birthday, and one of the set "apps" it will do, is simulate an entire civilization, so you can watch the people like ants in an ant farm. Then when you are finished looking at what weird stuff they come up with, you just press the delete button?

If we live in a multiverse, then there will be one reality where God loves us, and one where he 87% loves us, and one where he 0% loves us, and one where he -20% loves us, and one where his love changes from day to day.

How have you ascertained what universe type we are in?


Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2014, 11:44:23 PM »
a large, amorphous, irregular black blob moving behind a fence with an eight inch white metal looking cross sitting on the fence nearby which was gone later.

I know somebody who started seeing elves growing dope in her back yard, and the elves were building a large object for her to muse at. They came into the house, and other people in the house often sat on them.

Doctors gave her an anti-psychotic, and now she doesn't see the rotating blades and buildings on fire.

Lots of people can hallucinate for no apparent reason. I was trolling Yahoo answers, and one guy said he'd seen a man sitting in a chair on the other side of the room. He said when he looked up again, the man was gone. I replied that schizophrenia was a doozy. He then replied that there was a lot of it in his family, and he hadn't thought of it.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline jrtaylor

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #78 on: January 30, 2014, 01:56:01 PM »
a large, amorphous, irregular black blob moving behind a fence with an eight inch white metal looking cross sitting on the fence nearby which was gone later.

I know somebody who started seeing elves growing dope in her back yard, and the elves were building a large object for her to muse at. They came into the house, and other people in the house often sat on them.

Doctors gave her an anti-psychotic, and now she doesn't see the rotating blades and buildings on fire.


I'm not schizophrenic but now I stop discussing it because I don't give a fuck anymore.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 04:25:18 AM by Anfauglir »

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: GOD IS SILENT
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2014, 04:26:56 AM »
Doctors gave her an anti-psychotic, and now she doesn't see the rotating blades and buildings on fire.

I'm not schizophrenic but now I stop discussing it because I don't give a fuck anymore.

Interesting then that it took you only a dozen or so posts to bring it up.  Things I don't care about, I very rarely make them one of the first things I discuss with a new group of people. 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?