For example, today's collapse of a garment factory in Bangladesh...
Let's stick with comparing apples to apples.
This factory might be what screwtape considers to be a "Muslim shithole."
Let's not speculate on what Screwtape considers. I've not done that to you. I expect the same courtesy in return.
And for the record, I've not used the phrase "muslim shithole". Please do not put words in my mouth. I've not done that to you.
But this "shithole" would not exist if foreign corporations were not seeking cheap labor in countries that don't provide the bothersome sorts of protections like worker safety and minimum wage.
Who's fault is that? Who is holding a gun to Bangladesh's head making them have weak labor laws, allowing foreign corporations to mistreat their people? Do the Bangladeshis shoulder no responsibility for this whatsoever? I'm not talking about the victims of that particular tragedy. I am talking about their police, policy makers, business owners, etc.
I'm as against corporate evil as anyone. And I agree they are a huge part of the problem. But there are two sides to this equation. And the other side is Bangladeshis sold out other Bangladeshis.
But I would never have the audacity to call these laborers barbarians
Quesi, stop implying I have said things I have not. Seriously.
But do I think that Taliban are victims? To a certain degree, yes.
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^beating my keyboard against my head.
Decades of foreign wars on Afghan soil led to overwhelming illiteracy. And illiterate people are much more susceptible to superstitions and foolishness. And anger. And angry, superstitious, foolish people are often dangerous. The Taliban was born out of the Cold War.
I pretty much wrote this already, but not in those exact words:
Their societies suck, their schools suck, their economies suck. They suck. That is likely to make one irritable and violent. That they have gone fundamentalist has made the problems worse. They eschew the very things that can help them. It is a death spiral.
I don't get why you are out here with pitchforks and torches over what I've posted. You are saying the exact same things. Only you are qualifying it with "it's not their fault".
And how are, say, the Hatians doing comparatively? They have illiteracy. They have superstition and foolishness. And yet, they are not throwing acid on young girls for daring to go to school. They are not gang raping men's wives and daughters as punishment for the men's offenses.
How about Central Americans? The US sure created monsters there. Do they persist?
And my parents' tax dollars helped create the Taliban.
This is not "beside the point." This is the point. We created monsters, and then we blame them for being monsters.
completely beside the point I was making. I pointed and said "Thar be monsters" I haven't blamed anyone. I don't know why you keep thinking I have.
But let's be fair here. Even if your parents didn't pay for them, it is likely they would have existed anyway. The Soviets invaded and they were going to be resisted. There was always going to be a Taliban. The question was how effective were they going to be. We armed and trained them. But so did the Saudis and Pakistanis, who are primarily responsible for stoking constant war.
We did not invent them out of thin air.
Have you read the book Outliers by Malcom Gladwell? It explores what allows people to be successful. A large part of it is opportunity. Another part of it is culture. Gladwell spent a little time talking about the toll of feuds in the Apalachins in the 19th and early 20th century. What drove them was the culture of the Scotch-Irish immigrants there. They had a culture of masculine honor, which translates to a culture of violence.
And that kind of culture is typical of herding people. Like Afghans.
What I am getting at is the Afghans are royally screwed. Nothing about their land, their way of life, their cultural values, their religion, anything, sets them up to succeed in a modern world. Their entire situation is the opposite of ideal. Is that their fault? Not really. It's not our fault either. But so what? The results are the same.
And then we go on to say that all Muslims are monsters too?
If by 'we' you mean me, you'd better check this thread again. I am getting pretty tired of being accused of saying the exact opposite of what I actually did say, post after post.
Here's a bone for you. Juan Cole, a middle east expert I highly respect, agrees with you. http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/terrorism-other-religions.html
I winced recently when he used the "no true scotsman" excuse to say islamic terrorists weren't real muslims. http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/islamic-forbids-terrorism.html