Author Topic: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread  (Read 2813 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6856
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2013, 07:37:10 AM »
Condemned to hell by Christians. Atheist whipping post. Good thing I have my Belief in God, it will comfort me and see me through. I have all I need and neither of you can hurt me.

I do not have, nor does anyone else, I wager, a need to hurt anyone. Rather, there is a need to protect others from such naiveté by highlighting how you ignorantly embarass yourself. That you are unaware of the self-refuting arguments you make, the ignorant rationale you provide, is beside the point. It is a bit troubling how you confuse it with being attacked, but that is human nature.

You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline The Gawd

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
  • Darwins +78/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2013, 08:58:07 AM »
Im sorry, I try not to do this, but JB is extremely painful to read. She just dodges and ducks EVERYTHING. Just say you dont have any evidence for your fairy tails and be on your way, DAMN.

Offline jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1845
  • Darwins +318/-6
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2013, 09:37:27 AM »
Condemned to hell by Christians. Atheist whipping post. Good thing I have my Belief in God, it will comfort me and see me through. I have all I need and neither of you can hurt me.
And this is why belief in god can be a bad thing.  It can make you comfortable with being intellectually bankrupt.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Anfauglir

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6191
  • Darwins +407/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2013, 08:15:44 AM »
Hello peanut gallery!

It looks as if Junebug is saying that she has no evidence, and that no evidence is even possible.  Because of that, she would like to instead discuss her reasons for her belief.  Would anyone have any problems with altering the terms of debate to reasoning, rather than evidence?  Seems pointless to start a new thread if we can just carry on from where we are?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Mrjason

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1141
  • Darwins +82/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2013, 08:27:56 AM »
Hi Anfauglir!

If you're willing to have exactly the same debate with Junebug only having the word  "evidence" replaced by "belief" you go for it  :D


Offline Anfauglir

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6191
  • Darwins +407/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2013, 08:45:48 AM »
If you're willing to have exactly the same debate with Junebug only having the word  "evidence" replaced by "belief" you go for it  :D

To be clear - its replacing "evidence" with "reason" - in both cases "....for belief" follows after.  The proposal is to change "debate evidence for god" with "debate reasons for belief (in god)". 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Mrjason

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1141
  • Darwins +82/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2013, 08:57:03 AM »
apologies, I was extrapolating the possible outcome based on the debates so far.

I hope the new debate is more fruitful.

Offline jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1845
  • Darwins +318/-6
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2013, 09:22:50 AM »
Hello peanut gallery!

It looks as if Junebug is saying that she has no evidence, and that no evidence is even possible.  Because of that, she would like to instead discuss her reasons for her belief.  Would anyone have any problems with altering the terms of debate to reasoning, rather than evidence?  Seems pointless to start a new thread if we can just carry on from where we are?

It's alright with me, but truth be told, it is a debate between you and Junebug.  As long as the both of you agree to the terms I say go for it.  Something interesting is bound to come up.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Jag

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1601
  • Darwins +174/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Official WWGHA Harpy, Ex-rosary squad
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2013, 10:42:08 AM »
^^^You may have an interesting definition of the word "interesting"!
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1845
  • Darwins +318/-6
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2013, 10:51:26 AM »
^^^You may have an interesting definition of the word "interesting"!
I use 'interesting' in the same way that I find 'Ancient Aliens' interesting :).
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11680
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2013, 07:58:37 PM »
I think everyone is wasting their time with this idiot. But that's just me, I guess.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline LoriPinkAngel

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1198
  • Darwins +124/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm Your Nurse, Not Your Waitress...
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2013, 05:13:31 PM »
Since this thread has finally been closed and I have only just become aware of your smite I can only defend myself by message.
Quote
Quote from: magicmiles on May 07, 2013, 03:35:13 AM
Any chance this thread will die anytime soon? Seems to me its just descended into insults on both sides.

I think its a detriment to the forum at this point.

I don't know, this isn't even close to the endless thread with the creepy pedophile, that took forever to die.


Bold added.
Quote
nothing creepy or pediphiliac about this thread!!!

What part of this isn't even close did you not understand?  This comment referred back to a truly creepy thread involving a pedophile which people who are members of this forum longer than yourself would recognize.
Please refrain from attacking me without even reading what you're attacking me about.

Condemned to hell by Christians. Atheist whipping post. Good thing I have my Belief in God, it will comfort me and see me through. I have all I need and neither of you can hurt me.

You are out of your league.  You don't even read through comments before attacking, smiting and making unrelated defenses.  You are an embarrassment to Christians and I seriously hope no one judges any other Christian by your example.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1845
  • Darwins +318/-6
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2013, 08:25:57 PM »
You are out of your league.  You don't even read through comments before attacking, smiting and making unrelated defenses.  You are an embarrassment to Christians and I seriously hope no one judges any other Christian by your example.
Uh oh...you called Junebug a Christian...she's going to be pissed.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline LoriPinkAngel

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1198
  • Darwins +124/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm Your Nurse, Not Your Waitress...
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2013, 10:01:27 PM »

Uh oh...you called Junebug a Christian...she's going to be pissed.

There were several decidedly UN-Christian things I thought of calling her.  Oh, well I guess she'll just smite me again.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Anfauglir

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6191
  • Darwins +407/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anfauglir and junebug72 debate evidence for god Commentary thread
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2013, 03:25:48 AM »
With the debate thread locked, I can't quote, so apologies that this is all undated.

I was thinking about this last night, regarding these statements of Junebug's.

Quote from: Junebug72
You say you want evidence of God but you don't have any desire to find God.
you have no desire to find God.
God is not going to reveal Himself to us.
You have to be a willing participant to know God

Most particularly that last.  What Junebug appears to be saying here is that there is a kind of evidence that actually changes depending on the attitude of the observer.  Not that a person will interpret something differently, but that they will actually perceive it differently.

For example: there is a noise from the attic.  The evidence - a noise - is objective and fixed: the noise happened, it had a cause.  I may say "burglar!", Junebug may say "mouse!" (so we differ with our perceptions), but ultimately we can go into the attic and look.  We may see a burglar, we may see mouse droppings, we may see a broken window, we may see a warm mouse in a trap.  Our perceptions may alter the conclusions that we might draw, but ultimately the evidence exists and is fixed and will normally be followable to the correct conclusion.  If a mouse made the noise, then ultimately the evidence for that conclusion will build and build, and eventually there will be no choice for me but to agree there was a mouse.  With repeatable phenomenon, this is of course a lot easier - a CCTB system in the attic would be pretty conclusive as to what caused the NEXT noise we may hear.

But take another look at Junebug's statements.  They imply that as a disinterested observer, I actually will be entirely unable to recognise any evidence that may be presented.  I would view the CCTV footage of an attic empty apart from the mouse being caught in the trap, but I would see a burglar walking around.

Take a moment to consider that.  The contention that evidence is being deliberately obscured, that my perceptions are being specifically altered, so that am I unable to perceive the "actual" facts and evidence in place unless I have already accepted the conclusion.

If that is indeed what Junebug is saying - and it is hard to see any other meaning (especially given her last, bolded statement) - then she has been correct all along.  Any discussion on evidence is indeed an entire waste of time, since the two participants will actually perceive the universe in a different way.  Not in the trivial "we are standing six feet apart and so I had a better view of the accident" kind of difference, but in the "if we had both been standing in the exact same place, we would have seem entirely different things".

It is an interesting point of view: that one's beliefs do not just change one's perspectives and conclusions, but also change the nature of reality itself.  And it almost - almost - makes a logical sense within Junebug's argument.....except for this one line:

Quote from: Junebug72
God wants the world to know the Love is there for us all.

Because a god who wanted us to know would NOT cause reality to be perceived differently depending on the state of belief.  Reality would be the same for the believer, and the unbeliever, regardless of their motivations and perspectives.

The statements "God wants the world to know" and "You have to be a willing participant" are mutually exclusive statements if reality is mutable depending on one's perspective.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?