Author Topic: Just a quick hello [#2737]  (Read 390 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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Just a quick hello [#2737]
« on: April 16, 2013, 06:01:18 AM »
Hi,

I'm not niave and, am, therefore, fully aware that one brief e-mail is unlikely to stand out among several. However, if this one does, would you please consider something?

Consider that regardless of the existence (or lack thereof) of the God you argue against, love is real. People who find love and comfort in believing in God have just as much right to do so as people who find comfort in things that they can see.

I won't deny that many acclaimed God-fearing people use their beliefs in a negative way to judge and bring down people they feel are different from them. Don't let yourself fall into this trap as well.
I will leave you with the same plea that I give to Christians who seem to only know judgment:

Spread love.
Sure, it makes people around you happier, but you'll also ultimately benefit yourself.

I appreciate the time you took to read this e-mail.

Have a beautiful day.

Sincerely,
[name removed]
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Just a quick hello [#2737]
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2013, 06:12:30 AM »
Consider that regardless of the existence (or lack thereof) of the God you argue against, love is real. People who find love and comfort in believing in God have just as much right to do so as people who find comfort in things that they can see.

Your argument has problems.
1. People who believe in God, go to war because of gods.
2. You have not defined "love". Does this include chastising someone when they do something wrong or dangerous so as to teach them not to do it again?
3. Fundamentalists preach ignorance (Young Earth, Intelligent Design) and this disadvantages millions.
4. Believers really want other people to believe what they believe and go to horrible length to force people to be like them.
5. Any society will exclude, disadvantage and ridicule others -> this is true of Christianity, Islam, etc.

But mainly there is no connection between believing in a god and being happy or loving. You can be equally comforted by not believing. So your argument is basically, "Believe in something that does not exist!"

Yes, I'll believe - but when I know something exists.
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Just a quick hello [#2737]
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 06:23:54 AM »
I thought your email was very nice. Thank you for taking the time to send it.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Just a quick hello [#2737]
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 06:31:03 AM »
Quote from: Hello2737
.....regardless of the existence (or lack thereof) of the God you argue against, love is real.

Absolutely.  So - unless you are saying that people who believe in god will suddenly STOP being loving people if they stopped believing - there is therefore no need to throw a god into the mix.  Especially since, as you say, that belief in god can cause many people to do terrible things.

If we had love, and never heard of gods, would the world be a terrible place?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Just a quick hello [#2737]
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2013, 06:31:07 AM »
Is praising blind adherence to dogma (in spite of contradictory evidence) a good policy for increasing love and peace in society? Is ignorance better than knowledge and critical thinking at making healthy loving societies?

Your email seems like poorly thought-out emotional pablum à la Rodney King. You're talking about an effect and not a process. The hard thinking starts when you plan out by what means the greater good (more love) comes about in a human population.

If you would like to think critically about it, and have a discussion, this is the place. Join up.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Just a quick hello [#2737]
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2013, 07:29:47 AM »
There are times when comforting fiction is preferable to harsh truth, but they're pretty rare.  A perceived (and likely illusory) impact on someone's ability to give or receive love does not fall into that category.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline plethora

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Re: Just a quick hello [#2737]
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2013, 08:16:49 AM »
Consider that regardless of the existence (or lack thereof) of the God you argue against, love is real.

Indeed. Love is real and exists regardless of the god(s) we argue against.

Quote
People who find love and comfort in believing in God have just as much right to do so as people who find comfort in things that they can see.

Yes, they do have a right to believe whatever they want and comfort themselves however they like .... as long as the actions they take to comfort themselves doesn't negatively impact others ... emphasis on this.

Quote
I won't deny that many acclaimed God-fearing people use their beliefs in a negative way to judge and bring down people they feel are different from them. Don't let yourself fall into this trap as well.

I, along with many atheists, do not simply use our non-belief in a negative way to judge and bring down people who believe things we don't.

Quote
I will leave you with the same plea that I give to Christians who seem to only know judgment:

Many of us are not judging people. We are simply responding to those religious people and organizations that are judging us and trying to impose their beliefs on us.

When religious people lobby to have 'intelligent design' taught in the classrooms, lobby against abortion and gay marriage and insist on having preferential treatment by the government, that merits a response from us. When they judge us a sinners and morally corrupt people ... they merit a response from us. When they stop, I'll stop.

Quote
Spread love.

Many of us do.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Just a quick hello [#2737]
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2013, 04:44:43 AM »
Hi,

I'm not niave and, am, therefore, fully aware that one brief e-mail is unlikely to stand out among several. However, if this one does, would you please consider something?

Au contraire ... communication is more powerful with an economy of words.


Consider that regardless of the existence (or lack thereof) of the God you argue against, love is real. People who find love and comfort in believing in God have just as much right to do so as people who find comfort in things that they can see.

You can love anything you like. Some people love a mystical god with which they can never communicate but who supposedly brings only good things to a world full of bad things. Some people love shoes -- they collect them, adore them, wear them, and put them on display in their own homes. Some people love food and dedicate themselves to watching every possible food show, read every possible food blog and eat in every possible restaurant they can. Some people love their pets, some their cars, some their children, some their work, some love golf .... you can love whatever you like, whatever "love" means to you.

However, as you can tell from my recounting of examples of "love", this nebulous feeling you have is not necessarily shared across all people all the time, and people who "love" certain things have to realize that the rest of us may not give a crap about the thing that they "love". Ergo, you should keep your "love" to yourself and not assume you can spread it everywhere. Given that circumstance, as far as I am concerned, you can "love" your shoestrings if that's what makes you happy. If loving your god makes you happy, so be it! Just don't presume that I will "love" your god or whatever you think your god does for this world. I don't. I won't. I can't. I will love whatever I love. Fair enough?

I won't deny that many acclaimed God-fearing people use their beliefs in a negative way to judge and bring down people they feel are different from them. Don't let yourself fall into this trap as well.

If it weren't for Christians, primarily, though certainly not exclusively, trying to force upon the rest of us their love of the "good book", the "good news" and a bunch of other gobbledygook, I wouldn't be here recounting the idiotic ways that people are subsumed into the world of religion and follow its commonly primary requirement to proselytize others who don't share the love, and moreover, require that the rest of us follow their religious regulations as part of our legal system.

So, while you do recognize that "many acclaimed God-fearing people use their beliefs in a negative way to judge and bring down people they feel are different from them", please recognize that we didn't start this fight but we must defend ourselves. What is nice about the internet is that we didn't seek to proselytize you -- no knocks on your door, no flyers on your windshield, no mail in your box advertising our sight -- but you came to us of your own "free will".

Furthermore, I do not feel that in defense of myself and my lack of belief (or "love" of your god, if you will) that I "bring down others". I normally point out the inconsistencies of logic and the lack of inquisitive behaviors displayed by others who claim to be a disciple of their god(s). Those with belief freely, and quite often, put their shortcomings on display for the world to see and review. They often require no additional commentary by non-believers, except that those who are believers do not consider themselves of the same mental capacity (or lack thereof) as those who commit stupid acts all day long.

Sometimes pointing out these inconsistencies and incapacities is a form of "tough love".


I will leave you with the same plea that I give to Christians who seem to only know judgment:

Spread love.
Sure, it makes people around you happier, but you'll also ultimately benefit yourself.

I appreciate the time you took to read this e-mail.

Have a beautiful day.

Sincerely,
[name removed]

Exactly how do you spread "love"? Is it a metaphor for "spreading seed"? Is it paying for another customer's coffee at Starbucks in the mornings? Is it telling somebody "I love you" during the day? Is it just being nice to others? Can educating people about the realities of the world in which they live be a form of love?

Actions speak louder than words, and "love" is just a word.


John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.