Author Topic: Apocalypse  (Read 4000 times)

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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2013, 09:39:11 AM »
Great list, Jeff!

Now I suppose from this list we can draw the possible implications
  • That god is a poor designer, never checked how things would work out and creation was not perfect. Tends to suggest the god is either not very good, and thus not deserving of worship or there is no god to do designing.
  • Gay behaviour and tendency is build-in to all sorts of creatures and is thus nothing to do with being moral or getting to heaven.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #88 on: May 10, 2013, 09:40:13 AM »
Why so hung up on gay sex?

1. because they find it yucky.
2. because it arouses them mightily and makes them ashamed.
3. because they need to hate someone and interracial sex is now okay.

4. because, unlike most other "sins", it's a sin that heterosexuals aren't tempted by at all, so it's a lot easier for them to pass judgment about it on other people -- no worries about being accused of hypocrisy, or anything like that.

Not tempted by - how many Christian leaders in the states have had to admit to 'activity' with young lads in recent years?
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #89 on: May 10, 2013, 09:48:46 AM »
Why so hung up on gay sex?

1. because they find it yucky.
2. because it arouses them mightily and makes them ashamed.
3. because they need to hate someone and interracial sex is now okay.

4. because, unlike most other "sins", it's a sin that heterosexuals aren't tempted by at all, so it's a lot easier for them to pass judgment about it on other people -- no worries about being accused of hypocrisy, or anything like that.

Not tempted by - how many Christian leaders in the states have had to admit to 'activity' with young lads in recent years?

Far fewer than have had to admit to activity with other women.

BTW, it isn't just the states, it's worldwide; if you doubt this, I suggest you get a copy of "Freethought Today" (if the FFRF will send you a copy in Scotland) and read the Black Collar Crime Blotter section.
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Offline Jag

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2013, 09:52:01 AM »
Hypocrites all the way down.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #91 on: May 10, 2013, 09:59:04 AM »

And if "abusers of themselves" is referring to anything other than masturbation, I'll eat holybuckets hat.

I checked the Greek. It's arsenokoitai, meaning arse rooters.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1co6.pdf

Time for you to eat Holybucket's hat, with some mayo.

====

How does morality in the Bible go?

It's OK to sell your 3 year old daughter to a married pedophile, and he can get his money back, if he doesn't like her. Ex 21:7
If a married man rapes a 2 year old, in a paddock, he has to marry her, and keep him with his collection of wives that he raped, and can never divorce them. Deut 22:28
It's OK for a married man to rape a mature, divorced, unbetrothed woman, slave or whore. (The property laws only apply to women who are owned by a father or husband.)
If you kill a fetus, by beating a woman, you have to pay compensation. Ex 21:22
Women are expected to do their sexual duty to a husband at age 3, but can use a contraceptive sponge at age 11-12, in case they get pregnant. (Talmud: Niddah)
If a boy is living with a single woman, he is deemed to be her husband. If he has sex with her below 8, she is not morally affected, and is still saleable. (ditto)
A man must have sex with his brother's wife, if his brother dies and leaves her childless. (see Onan)
Girls who have sex below age 3 are still worth the same dowry [retail value is unaffected].  (Talmud: Niddah)
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Offline holybuckets

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #92 on: May 10, 2013, 10:08:12 AM »
Can you please list some of the animals that practice homosexuality?
Thanks

Here is a list copied from wikipedia... Sorry about the length. 
...edit: unnecessary quotation removed

The link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

You give examples of animals displaying homosexual behavior. Not homosexuality. Can you please give me examples of homosexuality in animals. As in homosexual acts, not behaviors.
Thanks
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 11:33:37 AM by screwtape »

Offline Jag

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #93 on: May 10, 2013, 10:24:40 AM »
Add, I don't disbelieve you, but the link tells me it's 403 Forbidden. Can you do a C&P please? I may have a hat sandwich (heavy on the mayo) in my future.
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Offline Jag

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #94 on: May 10, 2013, 10:51:34 AM »
Interesting post on OT rejection and why it's problematic for modern christians: http://spencerwatch.com/2011/05/22/the-%E2%80%9Cbut-that%E2%80%99s-just-the-old-testament%E2%80%9D-cop-out/

I rarely get involved in biblical arguments (I see no point most of the time, since it's so obviously made up) but I'm beginning to think I might have to get better versed in this nonsense.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #95 on: May 10, 2013, 03:15:01 PM »
Can you please list some of the animals that practice homosexuality?
Thanks

Here is a list copied from wikipedia... Sorry about the length. 
...edit: unnecessary quotation removed

The link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

You give examples of animals displaying homosexual behavior. Not homosexuality. Can you please give me examples of homosexuality in animals. As in homosexual acts, not behaviors.
Thanks
Whatever floats your boat:

NSFW


Try youtube for Homosexual animals...
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Online One Above All

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #96 on: May 10, 2013, 03:18:37 PM »
You give examples of animals displaying homosexual behavior. Not homosexuality. Can you please give me examples of homosexuality in animals. As in homosexual acts, not behaviors.
Thanks

What exactly do you think homosexual behavior is?
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Offline Iamrational

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #97 on: May 10, 2013, 03:26:41 PM »
haha. I had to +1 that Graybeard.

Whatever floats your boat...

When I read that all I could picture is you loading that video and thinking here you go douche bag.

It reminds of the stubborn 2 year old that won't listen even though you know they know the truth. It's like really? Do we really need to spell it out with a NSFW? Whatev.

Offline Samothec

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #98 on: May 10, 2013, 06:39:13 PM »
I believe those have to do with the Jewish Kosher Laws. Homosexuality however is a moral (law) issue and forbidden in both the Old and New Testament.
You will need to provide the book, chapter and verse in the New Testament where homosexuality is forbidden.
Romans 1:26-27
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
1 Timothy 1:9-10
Jude 1:7

Romans 1:26-27 = Where God deliberately makes people homosexual to punish them for not being properly obedient to God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 = This is the one that mentions "abusers of themselves with mankind". Really, "abuse"? The translator had a sexual dysfunction to write it this way. This is what you might write to indicate BDSM sex. So the passage does not forbid homosexuality. Also it says that "the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God". So homosexuals don't go to heaven – not the same as forbidding.
1 Timothy 1:9-10 = A phrasing that echoes the above which means the same conclusion.
Jude 1:7 = Refers to the Old Testament story of Sodom and Gomorrah

So none of those passages forbid homosexuality. One in fact says that God makes people homosexual.


3. because they need to hate someone and interracial sex is now okay.
Well, that and no one takes Satan seriously anymore. So they need someone to demonize too.


Edited to indicate that the translator(s) of 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-10 rather than the author(s) had the sexual dysfunction.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 06:50:08 PM by Samothec »
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #99 on: May 10, 2013, 07:07:25 PM »
@ Jag

basically what pianodwarf said...

humans are always looking for the easiest target, the one that can be pointed out from the rest. Imagine trying to round up all the fornicators. That and theyre afraid to look in the mirror and address how they fall short of these moronic inconsistent standards. It disgusts me really. Imagine if they rounded up all the hypocrites.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #100 on: May 10, 2013, 07:07:37 PM »
You give examples of animals displaying homosexual behavior. Not homosexuality. Can you please give me examples of homosexuality in animals. As in homosexual acts, not behaviors.
Try checking the dictionary before you make a verbal gaffe such as this.  Behavior is, by definition, the way in which something acts or conducts itself.

In short, if animals display homosexual behavior, they do so by performing homosexual acts.

Offline Jag

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #101 on: May 10, 2013, 07:41:36 PM »
@ Jag

basically what pianodwarf said...

humans are always looking for the easiest target, the one that can be pointed out from the rest. Imagine trying to round up all the fornicators. That and theyre afraid to look in the mirror and address how they fall short of these moronic inconsistent standards. It disgusts me really. Imagine if they rounded up all the hypocrites.

Color me skeptical, it just seems a bit too convenient somehow. Apparently, it's okay to discard the "rules" that are inconvenient in modern days, like no shellfish, no mixed fiber clothing, no pig anything - nothing ambiguous or unclear about any of that. But it's somehow vitally important to hold onto any biblical instruction that requires it's followers to intrude on others personal lives and pass moral judgements (also clearly prohibited by JESUS HIMSELF) on anyone who is unlike themselves.

And then they have the audacity to call it love, while behaving as hatefully as possible. Hypocrites and illiterate besides.
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Offline holybuckets

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #102 on: May 10, 2013, 08:18:42 PM »
You give examples of animals displaying homosexual behavior. Not homosexuality. Can you please give me examples of homosexuality in animals. As in homosexual acts, not behaviors.
Try checking the dictionary before you make a verbal gaffe such as this.  Behavior is, by definition, the way in which something acts or conducts itself.

In short, if animals display homosexual behavior, they do so by performing homosexual acts.
Sorry,
You are wrong. Let's say I have no interest in the opposite sex. This could be considered "exhibiting homosexual behavior." Although, I have no interest in members of my own sex either.
 A "homosexual act" is clearly something different. Now, once again, since many on this board claim that the act of homosexuality is found abundantly throughout the world, where is the proof?

Offline holybuckets

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #103 on: May 10, 2013, 08:26:14 PM »
Can you please list some of the animals that practice homosexuality?
Thanks

Here is a list copied from wikipedia... Sorry about the length. 
...edit: unnecessary quotation removed

The link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

You give examples of animals displaying homosexual behavior. Not homosexuality. Can you please give me examples of homosexuality in animals. As in homosexual acts, not behaviors.
Thanks
Whatever floats your boat:

NSFW


Try youtube for Homosexual animals...
This is what I love about you atheists. This clearly shows nothing. Granted, it looks like (a you know what).... but there is no proof that it is.
Secondly, when Christians post something that is not 100% verifiable and irrefutable... you guys have a field day with them. Let's hypothetically say someone captured Jesus ascension on video, but it was grainy and you couldn't really make out the face... again, you guys would be all over who posted that. Of course I don't expect anyone to fess up.

Offline holybuckets

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #104 on: May 10, 2013, 08:48:22 PM »
I did a little reasearch and found this. It is concerning Bonobo's.

Sexual intercourse and sexual activity in general play a major role in bonobo society, being used as what some scientists perceive as a greeting, a means of forming social bonds, a means of conflict resolution, and postconflict reconciliation.[34] Bonobos are the only non-human animal to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (though a pair of western gorillas have been photographed performing face-to-face genital sex[35]), tongue kissing, and oral sex.[36]

So much for the whole animal and plant kingdom doing it, and clearly showing a distinction between a "sexual activity" and sexual "behavior"....

Plus, do we even know that these are two male whatevers?

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2013, 09:58:16 PM »
You give examples of animals displaying homosexual behavior. Not homosexuality. Can you please give me examples of homosexuality in animals. As in homosexual acts, not behaviors.
Thanks
Wikipedia says the following...

Homosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction, or sexual activity between members of the same sex or gender.

Merriam Webster defines homosexuality it this way...

1 : the quality or state of being homosexual
2 : erotic activity with another of the same sex

Conservapedia defines it like this...

Homosexuality is the condition of "sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex."

It seems to me that engaging in sexual activity with another of the same species and within the same gender is absolute evidence of homosexuality no matter how it is defined by everyone.  What could be more of a slam dunk than that? 

But since you won't accept the most blatantly obvious evidence that anyone could possibly provide in this case, what would you accept as evidence of homosexuality in animals?  Do you want them to fill out a questionnaire? 

What do you accept as evidence of homosexuality in humans?  If you saw 2 men having sex with each other, would you not say that was evidence of homosexuality?  Or does that not meet your criteria? 
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Offline Astreja

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #106 on: May 11, 2013, 12:43:17 AM »
It seems to me that engaging in sexual activity with another of the same species and within the same gender is absolute evidence of homosexuality no matter how it is defined by everyone.  What could be more of a slam dunk than that? 

But since you won't accept the most blatantly obvious evidence that anyone could possibly provide in this case, what would you accept as evidence of homosexuality in animals?  Do you want them to fill out a questionnaire?

Probably waiting for a parade of penguins with rainbow banners, or a chorus of bonobos singing "It's Raining Men."  ;)

It's all a moot point anyway.  I personally don't give a rat's ass what Holybuckets or his alleged god think about My sexuality -- Until and unless he attempts to leverage that opinion in the public sphere to cause even slight inconvenience in My life or in the lives of other LGBT individuals.  At that point it becomes all-out war, and I fight to win.

(Disclaimer:  I was involved in the Canadian same-sex marriage debate eight years ago, and actually "outed" Myself in an interview in a local paper.  Oh, and we won.)
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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #107 on: May 11, 2013, 04:28:04 AM »
I predict the world will end at 5:20am eastern US time. Seeing how that was 8 minutes ago does not mean my prediction is any less true.

Namgod has spoken.

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Offline CutePuppy

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #108 on: May 11, 2013, 07:06:06 AM »
Can you please list some of the animals that practice homosexuality?
Thanks

Here is a list copied from wikipedia... Sorry about the length. 
...edit: unnecessary quotation removed

The link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

You give examples of animals displaying homosexual behavior. Not homosexuality. Can you please give me examples of homosexuality in animals. As in homosexual acts, not behaviors.
Thanks

Can't you just read the wiki page? It shows references to actual homosexual acts between animals.

Not to mention the first couple of sentences on that page:

Quote
Homosexual behavior in animals refers to the documented evidence of homosexual and bisexual behavior in various non-human species. Such behaviors include sexual activity, courtship, affection, pair bonding, and parenting among same-sex animal pairings.

And all the other examples of homosexual activities:
Quote
Mallards form male-female pairs only until the female lays eggs, at which time the male leaves the female. Mallards have rates of male-male sexual activity that are unusually high for birds, in some cases, as high as 19% of all pairs in a population.[1]

Quote
The Bonobo, which has a matriarchal society, unusual amongst apes, is a fully bisexual species—both males and females engage in heterosexual and homosexual behavior, being noted for female-female homosexuality in particular. Roughly 60% of all bonobo sexual activity occurs between two or more females.

Seriously, just read the page?

And, by the way:

Quote
Sexual intercourse and sexual activity in general play a major role in bonobo society, being used as what some scientists perceive as a greeting, a means of forming social bonds, a means of conflict resolution, and postconflict reconciliation.[34] Bonobos are the only non-human animal to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (though a pair of western gorillas have been photographed performing face-to-face genital sex[35]), tongue kissing, and oral sex.[36]

So much for the whole animal and plant kingdom doing it, and clearly showing a distinction between a "sexual activity" and sexual "behavior"....

Wrong. That sentence is not referring to homosexual acts, but the whole face-to-face fucking and tongue kissing thing.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 07:10:44 AM by CutePuppy »

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #109 on: May 11, 2013, 09:20:46 PM »
I did a little reasearch and found this. It is concerning Bonobo's.

Sexual intercourse and sexual activity in general play a major role in bonobo society, being used as what some scientists perceive as a greeting, a means of forming social bonds, a means of conflict resolution, and postconflict reconciliation.[34] Bonobos are the only non-human animal to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (though a pair of western gorillas have been photographed performing face-to-face genital sex[35]), tongue kissing, and oral sex.[36]

So much for the whole animal and plant kingdom doing it, and clearly showing a distinction between a "sexual activity" and sexual "behavior"....

Plus, do we even know that these are two male whatevers?

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo


Looking for homosexual behaviour in the animal kingdom is a bit pointless. It's like saying humans should not be Certified Practicing Accountants, because we can't find any evidence of it in the animal kingdom. This whole thing started because Christian bigots can't believe that humans could naturally be born liking the same sex, which is irrational to start with. Why should I practically abhor members of my own sex, for the sake of sexual selection?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexuality#Prevalence

In animals, who generally have limited intellect, it is hormones and chemical reactions that are responsible for driving the male's penis into the female. Even if a male dog is born with a female brain, and quietly thinks to itself that it's a female, and would like a sex change: when the female dog starts to emit certain smells, the male dog is involuntarily propelled towards the scent, by strong programming.

Humans don't have any sense of smell, or even a basic conscious clue whether they are even in the same room as a female, via chemical signals. The whole sexual scenario has to be decided mentally, via preferences that are rare in the lower mammalian kingdom. Human males typically decide whether to mount a female, based on whether she looks artistic, or perhaps just takes a shine to him. Because we are looking for mental signals, it's subject to interpretation.

Another group of animals that don't select mates by scent, but by artistic merit, are birds. Consequently:
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/stories/homosexual-bird-marriages-just-as-strong-as-heterosexual-ones

You will notice that finches, like a lot of birds, are not strongly sexually di-morphic. There are many male bird species that put on distinctive displays. I would not expect female homosexuality in birds of paradise. But I could imagine that one male might be attracted to another male, since they are so dazzling.

In summary: it's humans who decide their own sexuality. Using reference to animal models is not likely to be helpful.
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #110 on: May 11, 2013, 09:22:42 PM »
Add, I don't disbelieve you, but the link tells me it's 403 Forbidden. Can you do a C&P please? I may have a hat sandwich (heavy on the mayo) in my future.

They may have forbidden direct linking to the PDFs.
http://scripture4all.org/
http://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm

You are looking for 1Cor6. This is a useful site. You might as well BM it.
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Offline Samothec

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #111 on: May 14, 2013, 12:38:15 AM »
Let's say I have no interest in the opposite sex. This could be considered "exhibiting homosexual behavior." Although, I have no interest in members of my own sex either.
 A "homosexual act" is clearly something different.
If you have no interest in the opposite sex or the same sex then you are NOT exhibiting any sexual behavior. If this is true then most would consider you to be asexual. So, again you are wrong.


Bonobos are the only non-human animal to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: x, y, and z.[36]
Corrected how the bold should have been and reduced the sex acts to "x", "y" & "z" so you can focus on how to read it correctly.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Apocalypse
« Reply #112 on: May 14, 2013, 03:41:12 PM »
If animals do it, then it is natural and okay for people to do it, too.

Unless god does not like it.

Then, if animals do it, it is unnatural for people to do it, because people are to be like god, not like the lower animals.

Easy peasy.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.