Author Topic: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing  (Read 45245 times)

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #928 on: May 06, 2013, 09:43:10 AM »
As Hatter will probably tell you, "Debating Christians is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory."
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #929 on: May 06, 2013, 03:47:00 PM »
As Hatter will probably tell you, "Debating Christians is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory."

Would that victory be claimed as some sort of coup?
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #930 on: May 06, 2013, 05:07:01 PM »
Would that victory be claimed as some sort of coup?
I dunno about that, but if they're old pigeons, you could say that we're counting coots.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #931 on: May 06, 2013, 05:15:54 PM »
Of course, when the atheists started legal action to re-coup the loss of the chess-board, the head pigeon cried "Let's get the flock outta here"
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #932 on: May 06, 2013, 07:34:17 PM »
I don't know where else to post this, but Junebugs signature got me thinking, so I created this:


God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups

Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #933 on: May 06, 2013, 07:40:04 PM »
I don't speak clearly, I am stupid, I don't know science, I am mentally ill, I am prejudice against the mentally ill, I Believe in the Bible(so many times on that one), I am Christian(again many times), I am not a critical thinker, unreasonable, I think that about covers it. Oh wait my favorite, question dodger.







Thanks for coming clean.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 07:41:42 PM by mrbiscoop »
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Online JeffPT

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #934 on: May 06, 2013, 10:08:10 PM »
I don't speak clearly, I am stupid, I don't know science, I am mentally ill, I am prejudice against the mentally ill, I Believe in the Bible(so many times on that one), I am Christian(again many times), I am not a critical thinker, unreasonable, I think that about covers it. Oh wait my favorite, question dodger. Can't leave that one out.
Luckily for you... all fixable.  Except maybe the mentally ill thing.  Depends on the problem I bet.
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline sun_king

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #935 on: May 06, 2013, 11:25:50 PM »
 Junebug, what do you say about this situation in Bangladesh?

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/37-dead-as-bangladesh-islamists-demand-tougher-blasphemy-law-363522?pfrom=home-otherstories

"Hang Atheists", how bad can that be?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #936 on: May 07, 2013, 02:27:17 AM »
I have spent a large majority of my time defending myself from unfounded accusations. .... Oh wait my favorite, question dodger. Can't leave that one out. My, my it's a wonder I survived one day here!!!

Question Dodger.  Yes, indeed.  You are.

How many times have you dodged answering THIS question, Junebug?

And I found that the article was a hugely biased glurge that claimed things the study did not find, and badly misrepresented the study's findings to push its own agenda.

..... But please - tell me why should I assume that they are any more honest than the one that I DID read?[/b

.....you said "hey, read this!" - and the article was dishonest, biased, and manipulative.So I'll ask again - WHY should I assume that anything else you ask us to read will be any better?  WHY did you choose that article to share?  Did you read the study that it claimed to use as evidence, or did you just think "this fits my opinion, I'll post it without any further checking?"

How many times have you dodged my question in the Debate, to state what YOU regard as sufficient criteria for evidence?

So yes, Junebug - you ARE a Question Dodger.  Because your response to this, I am sure, will NOT be to answer the questions, but to once again deflect, and evade....and dodge.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #937 on: May 07, 2013, 03:35:13 AM »
Any chance this thread will die anytime soon? Seems to me its just descended into insults on both sides.

I think its a detriment to the forum at this point.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 03:38:47 AM by magicmiles »
Go on up you baldhead.

Online natlegend

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #938 on: May 07, 2013, 11:35:59 AM »
Must admit I only joined in on page 30 (iPhone fatigue)... and it seems to me (paraphrasing) that it goes something like this:

June: greed and human nature is the reason for (most of) the suffering on earth.
Atheist: but how so? Can you explain further?
June: cos of the colour red
Atheist: uhhh, but you didn't answer the question...
June: yes I did, you're just too arrogant and full of hate to understand
Atheist: whaaaaat??
June: I've given you the FACTS, it's not my fault that you won't listen

Sorry if that's not a good analogy, but it's late and I'm tired and I have no desire to wade through another 29 pages of back-and-forth.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline sun_king

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #939 on: May 07, 2013, 11:42:18 AM »
Must admit I only joined in on page 30 (iPhone fatigue)... and it seems to me (paraphrasing) that it goes something like this:

June: greed and human nature is the reason for (most of) the suffering on earth.
Atheist: but how so? Can you explain further?
June: cos of the colour red
Atheist: uhhh, but you didn't answer the question...
June: yes I did, you're just too arrogant and full of hate to understand
Atheist: whaaaaat??
June: I've given you the FACTS, it's not my fault that you won't listen

Sorry if that's not a good analogy, but it's late and I'm tired and I have no desire to wade through another 29 pages of back-and-forth.

You missed the statement about she being made a whipping post because she selected a color that is usually favored by the communists.

Online natlegend

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #940 on: May 08, 2013, 12:32:45 AM »
You're right. Maybe I should have used the color 'chartreuse'[1]in my analogy instead, I don't want to start a meaningless argument about colors and what they represent and how they affect free will an' stuff.
 1. What friggin colour is chartreuse anyway??? Google time...
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #941 on: May 08, 2013, 05:30:57 AM »
I've done two of those natlegend and she actually thought one of them was me copy/pasting her words when I didn't. And then Graybeard comes in finds a comment similar what I wrote when what I wrote was an agglomeration. They both got it wrong. So funny.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #942 on: May 09, 2013, 07:43:38 AM »
Anf,

I haven't dodged you. I'm not wasting anymore of my time answering to your ridiculous taunts.  I said the dang article was, "food for thought".  I never said it was concrete evidence that supports anything; just "food for thought".

The rest,

I see you're never going to stop insulting me, I must've hit a nerve or something. :?  Well that's okay, I'm a big girl, I can take it. I believe in turning the other cheek.  I think it's an amazing quality to have and now thanks to you all, I now can say, I have experience in that department. 

Jag,

You're mean, you're all mean.  If your goal was to convert me to your way of thinking I suppose you would have gotten a lot further with kindness and respect.  Don't be disappointed with me.  I came here with nothing but good intentions and I'm leaving here for the same purpose.  I'm not going to continue to get slandered here anymore.  I mean come on now, would you stick around for more of this!!!  I have no desire to be converted to atheism.  I only wanted to share my story with you and as I have been told, it is irrelevant to you. I shouldn't stay where I'm not wanted.   

Please take care and leave me in PEACE.


Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #943 on: May 09, 2013, 08:09:18 AM »
Hey Junebug,

I'm sorry to read that you're leaving. I have honestly enjoyed reading your thoughts.

I think the problem that you have had here is you seem to have mistaken this site for an agnostic christian site.

Coming to an atheist website, where people are skeptical at best, and expecting members to accept things that they believe to be pure fabrication without providing any real evidence to the contray is naive in the extreme on your part.

I'm glad that you can take something away from your time here.

Take it easy ;)

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #944 on: May 09, 2013, 08:33:19 AM »
Anf,

I haven't dodged you. I'm not wasting anymore of my time answering to your ridiculous taunts.  I said the dang article was, "food for thought".  I never said it was concrete evidence that supports anything; just "food for thought".

Dodge

If its "food for thought", what was it meant to make us think?  That it had a good point?  That we should pay attention to its claims?  Whatever it was supposed to make us think, any thoughts it might make us think would be useless if what it is saying is based on misrepresentations and outright lies.

Unless your definition of "food for thought" is "you can dismiss this as claptrap because there is no substance behind it at all"....but then why post it in the first place?

So yes, Junebug - you ARE a Question Dodger.  Because your response to this, I am sure, will NOT be to answer the questions, but to once again deflect, and evade....and dodge.

And, as I predicted, you have dodged and refused to answer the very specific, very pertinent question I asked. 

.....the article was dishonest, biased, and manipulative.  So I'll ask again - WHY should I assume that anything else you ask us to read will be any better?

Feel free to dodge answering that question again.  It'll only be about the fifth time I've asked it.

You're mean, you're all mean.  If your goal was to convert me to your way of thinking I suppose you would have gotten a lot further with kindness and respect.  Don't be disappointed with me.  I came here with nothing but good intentions and I'm leaving here for the same purpose.  I'm not going to continue to get slandered here anymore.  I mean come on now, would you stick around for more of this!!!  I have no desire to be converted to atheism.  I only wanted to share my story with you and as I have been told, it is irrelevant to you. I shouldn't stay where I'm not wanted.   

Poor little Junebug!  Why couldn't we have just accepted everything you told us without asking questions?  Why couldn't we all have just oooohed and ahhhed and said "gosh Juebug, you're so darn spiritual and wise, I wish WE could be like you".

Maybe that's how your picked coterie of yes-men treat you out there, but it doesn't wash here.  You've offered baseless assertions and dodged questions throughout your time here - and you've been repeatedly called on it, that's all.  And you don't like it, so we get this matyred victimhood.  The sad thing is, if you'd come here with a little more REAL humility and willingness to learn you could have had quite a good time here. 

Please take care and leave me in PEACE.

That's easily done Junebug.  Just never log in again.  Nobody here is going to try to track you down and knock on your door to expound their views to you......remember that it is YOU who chose - and keeps choosing - to come back here.

- - - - -

Final point: A few pages ago, I offered you a financial gift for your grandchild's birth, to help their start in life.  You didn't respond.  I just want to say that that offer still stands if you wish to take it up.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #945 on: May 09, 2013, 09:09:03 AM »
You're mean, you're all mean.  If your goal was to convert me to your way of thinking I suppose you would have gotten a lot further with kindness and respect.
I feel that my posts to you have been quite respectful and not mean at all, June, but you don't seem to have paid me much attention of late. I guess nice guys really do finish last.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #946 on: May 09, 2013, 09:23:55 AM »
Anf,

I haven't dodged you. I'm not wasting anymore of my time answering to your ridiculous taunts.  I said the dang article was, "food for thought".  I never said it was concrete evidence that supports anything; just "food for thought".

The rest,

I see you're never going to stop insulting me, I must've hit a nerve or something. :?  Well that's okay, I'm a big girl, I can take it. I believe in turning the other cheek.  I think it's an amazing quality to have and now thanks to you all, I now can say, I have experience in that department. 
Does putting your fingers in your ears and going 'LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA' really count as turning the other cheek?
Quote
Jag,

You're mean, you're all mean.  If your goal was to convert me to your way of thinking I suppose you would have gotten a lot further with kindness and respect.  Don't be disappointed with me.  I came here with nothing but good intentions and I'm leaving here for the same purpose.  I'm not going to continue to get slandered here anymore.  I mean come on now, would you stick around for more of this!!!  I have no desire to be converted to atheism.  I only wanted to share my story with you and as I have been told, it is irrelevant to you. I shouldn't stay where I'm not wanted.   

Please take care and leave me in PEACE.
Good intentions...something about a paved road...

Any chance this thread will die anytime soon? Seems to me its just descended into insults on both sides.
I predict that unless this thread is locked that it will reach heat death at around page 42.
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #947 on: May 09, 2013, 05:55:52 PM »


Im not really mean at all... but I did want a reason to post this gif.

Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #948 on: May 09, 2013, 06:14:08 PM »
Anf,

I haven't dodged you. I'm not wasting anymore of my time answering to your ridiculous taunts.  I said the dang article was, "food for thought".  I never said it was concrete evidence that supports anything; just "food for thought".

The rest,

I see you're never going to stop insulting me, I must've hit a nerve or something. :?  Well that's okay, I'm a big girl, I can take it. I believe in turning the other cheek.  I think it's an amazing quality to have and now thanks to you all, I now can say, I have experience in that department. 

Jag,

You're mean, you're all mean.  If your goal was to convert me to your way of thinking I suppose you would have gotten a lot further with kindness and respect.  Don't be disappointed with me.  I came here with nothing but good intentions and I'm leaving here for the same purpose.  I'm not going to continue to get slandered here anymore.  I mean come on now, would you stick around for more of this!!!  I have no desire to be converted to atheism.  I only wanted to share my story with you and as I have been told, it is irrelevant to you. I shouldn't stay where I'm not wanted.   

Please take care and leave me in PEACE.

You have GOT to be kidding.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #949 on: May 09, 2013, 07:55:25 PM »
You have GOT to be kidding.

No Jag, she's not, and to be honest, when one looks at the shrill & strident tone of some of your comments, you can't blame her.  Here's an example of how you laid into her:

"Does that sound accurate to you? I'm just trying to really understand what you're talking about - your spirituality seems very personal and specific to you, and I don't want to make any more assumptions. What I've stated here is what I've pieced together - am I more or less on the right track?"

Go a little easier on people next time eh?


 ;)
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #950 on: May 10, 2013, 08:16:41 AM »
What junebug probably expected is that the people here would be okay with her having her belief, thus why she wanted to share it.  So when practically nobody was, she felt that people were being mean, offensive, rude - compared to the idea she had in her mind of how everyone should have reacted, rather than the reality.

She's the victim here - but only of her own bad expectations.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #951 on: May 10, 2013, 09:30:09 AM »
What junebug probably expected is that the people here would be okay with her having her belief, thus why she wanted to share it. 

I've got no problem at all with people having funky little beliefs.  I only start to have problems when one of two things happen:

1) They start asserting their beliefs as fact, without any tangible evidence.
2) Or they start suggesting that things/me/the world/delete as appropriate on the basis of their beliefs.

(2) also requires evidence - if someone can prove their position, then I'll listen and change the way I act based on that evidence.

A classic example was the MMR "scandal" in the UK.  The newspapers blew up a huge story about the dangers, based essentially on a belief that a doctor could show there was a problem.  Unlike (apparently!) most people, I actually went to read the orignial studies that all the hoo-ha stemmed from, and discovered that:

1) The original research looked at just 12 subjects.
2) Those subjects were chosen from children that had had the triple vaccine, and had developed problems - no control group, no double-blind, no statistical analysis.
and
3) The doctor concerned was, prior to his work, heavily involved in a company pushing three single vaccines.

So NO evidence, just beliefs based on "I feel it must be true", and anecdotal evidence from people who thought that "my child had the vaccine and a week later I saw problems" meant that they could discount everything else that had happened in that week (or, indeed, in the months before) and link effect to a particular event without any evidence.

If those people believed that "A caused B", and that was that, then fine.  But they forced the issue, stated it as fact, demanded change.....and influenced tens of thousands of parents NOT to have the triple vaccine.  And we are now starting to see an increase in illness and deaths as a result of the dramatically reduced take-up of the vaccine.

I'll make that point clear: unevidenced and incorrect beliefs are directly harming people.

Take a look at What's The Harm, which documents hundreds of thousands of deaths and injuries that are attributable to unevidenced "beliefs". 

So yeah.  When someone pops up and says "I think this, and its a fact, and I can't prove it, but its TRUE, and so we should all do things differently" I ask questions.  And yes, I ask them hard, because false beliefs cause harm
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #952 on: May 10, 2013, 11:36:14 AM »
But I'm clearly the mean one  ;).
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline screwtape

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #953 on: May 10, 2013, 11:43:01 AM »
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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #954 on: May 10, 2013, 12:48:38 PM »
^^^Should I add that to my sig?
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline tapdancingcow

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #955 on: May 10, 2013, 05:15:03 PM »
Ohhh so many replies and not enough time to read them all.  I'll try to get through them today when I have time. 

So Junebug,  (hoping you are still out there reading the thread).  You have things a bit backwards in my view.

 I have seen my mother die, my father, two brothers, and several cats and dogs.  What perhaps you may not understand is that many atheists, myself included,  don't want an afterlife.  I absolutely don't!  I can't think of anything more gawd awful and horrendous  than eternal life.  I enjoyed my family when they were alive and I treasure their memory now and throughout the rest of my existence but it would be hell to live eternally, even if my family were there.

This is it.  This life is it. This moment is true. This existence is real. No one gets a second chance.  Having an "extension" added after death cheapens and devalues this one and only life.


That there is no afterlife is the VERY  reason to treat other people decently, with generosity and without judgement.  Because everyone is on this ride just once and this "one brief shinning moment" (to borrow a cheesy line from the musical Camelot) is what makes it so amazing.

Tapdancingcow   or "Tap" for short

 
 

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #956 on: May 10, 2013, 07:13:13 PM »
I think what JB was looking for here was acceptance, which was something she could not get from her chosen religion due to their stance on homosexuality. I think she wouldve found that its not even about acceptance here, she is who she is and  I dont think we (atheists here) give a damn about that. In that, I think I can speak for most of us, we are with her. But that "acceptance" doesnt stretch to unsupported ideas.

I did get the vibe that she was looking for acceptance, so I did suggest she seek out a gnostic christian site or some sort of mysticism community. Although we share a disconnect with "religion" there was nothing else there, and her inability to understand support made it tough for her.