Author Topic: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing  (Read 32976 times)

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #899 on: May 04, 2013, 12:31:02 PM »
I worked back from there (April 24th) to April 18th - which is before the "greed is bad" thing started, and I have been unable to see any sources listed.  Certainly I've seen no links, though it is possible that there may have been a "XXXX says that....." buried in one of your posts that I have missed.


Try "Shadows of Liberty" or American Greed or the documentary on The Koch Brothers.[/b]

Isn't the date up there 4/23? It says 4/22 under my posts but whatever, you have some pie in your face.

Indeed - I DID miss them - I suspected I might have done, like I said.  I apologise Junebug.  You suggested a couple of sourced before the big one you actually linked to.  My bad.

But my critique still stands.  Although it was not the first document you offered, it was the first I registered - and (whether you believe me or not), I thought it was the first evidence you had offered.  So I read it.  Then I read the research that it referenced.

And I found that the article was a hugely biased glurge that claimed things the study did not find, and badly misrepresented the study's findings to push its own agenda.

So again, I apologise that I missed your suggestion for those three items.  But please - tell me why should I assume that they are any more honest than the one that I DID read?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #900 on: May 04, 2013, 01:26:51 PM »
Very interesting.  In post #884 (previous page), I merely offered a quote from Sigmund Freud.  Junebug has elected to "smite" me on this, and her reason was:  "mean, abuse of power".

Wow, just.......wow.




« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 02:27:34 PM by Star Stuff »
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Offline Samothec

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #901 on: May 04, 2013, 02:46:04 PM »
junebug72, I have seen the following that you linked to: the-last-mountain, koch-brothers-exposed, how-the-earth-was-made, mankind-the-story-of-all-of-us, the-universe and a different program about fracking. Watching "Mankind the Story of All of Us" right now.

But these programs, while some of them do point out greed as a problem, do not support your contention that belief does not cause problems. In fact "Mankind the Story of All of Us" refutes your claim. They point out in the program several instances where religion and belief cause some terrible events.


As for Star Stuff, the blue text was not him speaking as a moderator. Only green text is reserved for moderators. So there was no abuse of power. Anyone can use any color except green.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #902 on: May 04, 2013, 04:01:19 PM »
My point is made. Human's will be hateful,greedy, murdering, bigots, with or w/o belief in God.  You want something to blame?  Blame human nature because that's what it's called.
Apart form the implication that

(i) all humans are "hateful,greedy, murdering, bigots,"  when clearly it is only a very tiny percentage, and
(ii) greed is the main cause of suffering, when it is but one factor of which superstition and lack of education are probably the main ones,

I agree with you that the problems of the world are related to human nature and nothing to do with God. (But then nothing is to do with a non-existent god or gods.)

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #903 on: May 04, 2013, 05:40:25 PM »


Yes I did. If you really want me to go back there and find it for you I will but it's going to make you look dumb and lazy. Here's a clue, it was a reply to Jag.

I am willing to risk it. You'll have to see if you can find where you answered that question satisfactorily (without other unsubstantiated claims) because I cannot find it among all the ducking and dodging. I am quite confident that even if you did manage to sneak an answer in these 30 pages of back and forth that my reputation will come out unscathed, but I appreciate your concern.

Here's another clue - I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer to anything yet. Feel free to dig through anything that's been posted in response to me or my questions, but don't count on it supporting your position jb.

If you are going to throw me a smite over a false accusation junebug, I expect you to defend it as well. Explain please.

Edited: Correction - apparently you see multiple false accusations here.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 05:42:16 PM by Jag »
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #904 on: May 05, 2013, 03:35:34 AM »
Looks like squirming to me. I never said greed was the only problem.  You people need to quit displaying those pictures of hungry children you don't care about that.  So you say greed does not cause poverty and the hunger that inflicts those baby, You're the uninformed one not me.
June, you may very well be correct that greed[1] is the primary reason for the vast poverty we see in the world, but you are missing the point. It makes no sense whatsoever that an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god would allow even one innocent child to starve to death, yet thousands do every year. It is the greatest of all contradictions for this to happen.

Theists must cling to the notion that god would be violating "free will" if he were to step in and help those suffering, but this is simply a justifying rationalization. It would in no way violate anyone's free will for god to create a healthy, nutritious, and tasty crop that would naturally grow in abundance in an arid environment. But that doesn't happen, does it? An all-powerful, all-loving being would ensure that the consequences of greed would rightfully be borne by the greedy, not the innocent. Do you believe there is any "sin" a baby could commit that would justify a punishment of death?

This is the biggest reason why I (and many others here) simply cannot believe in your god, June. The fact that innocent babies and children suffer and die every day is proof that your god does not exist. Does it make sense that a god who cares about helping someone find his keys, or curing someone's cancer, or which football team wins the game, would not help the most needy? Of course not! You credit god with helping you through some tough times, but I would bet that whatever suffering you've experienced would pale in comparison to starving to death. What do you think?
 1. greed of the warlords in control of these impoverished nations, maybe even greed of the wealthy nations for not giving enough?

No my life is easy in comparison.

God don't starve the children greed does.  If God made more crops greed would just take it too.  The only way to stop that problem is to take care of greed.

Free will is not something you cling to, it's something you must try to understand.  I just can't believe you people would rather be controlled than make your own choices.  We are the only species on this planet that has the gift of choice.   So you think God should stop us from being promiscuous, bad parents, liars, thieves, elder care.  Yea you want God to smite someone every time they tell a lie or cheat on your spouse.  Should God only smite us for greed. If that ever happens, we will all be in trouble, because we are all part of the problem.  Just yesterday I lost my cool for a moment and cussed like a sailor, God should have hit me with lightning according to what you would like to see God do. I bet you've had premarital relations :-*, would you like God to stop you from "sinning?"  If not I hope you still get my point.

It is what you do with your free will that defines your life.

Okay now lets look at things from the atheist perspective.  God doesn't exist, so what do you call mans privilege of choice?  My point is free will exists either way.

Thanks for your thoughts Fireman. Take care.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #905 on: May 05, 2013, 04:11:49 AM »


Yes I did. If you really want me to go back there and find it for you I will but it's going to make you look dumb and lazy. Here's a clue, it was a reply to Jag.

I am willing to risk it. You'll have to see if you can find where you answered that question satisfactorily (without other unsubstantiated claims) because I cannot find it among all the ducking and dodging. I am quite confident that even if you did manage to sneak an answer in these 30 pages of back and forth that my reputation will come out unscathed, but I appreciate your concern.

Here's another clue - I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer to anything yet. Feel free to dig through anything that's been posted in response to me or my questions, but don't count on it supporting your position jb.

If you are going to throw me a smite over a false accusation junebug, I expect you to defend it as well. Explain please.

Edited: Correction - apparently you see multiple false accusations here.

Don't worry they don't hurt.  &)

The only satisfying answer I could have given you would not have been an honest answer because it would have to be an answer that is yours not mine.  It's an unacceptable attack against my character, one that I will no longer tolerate.  I take a lot of pride in being kind, patient, accepting, attentive, intelligent, and fair.  You people make me out to be something I'm am NOT.  Those Darwins of mine are mostly slander and should be removed from my profile, but I'm not on here whining about it.  Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #906 on: May 05, 2013, 04:34:28 AM »
junebug72, I have seen the following that you linked to: the-last-mountain, koch-brothers-exposed, how-the-earth-was-made, mankind-the-story-of-all-of-us, the-universe and a different program about fracking. Watching "Mankind the Story of All of Us" right now.

But these programs, while some of them do point out greed as a problem, do not support your contention that belief does not cause problems. In fact "Mankind the Story of All of Us" refutes your claim. They point out in the program several instances where religion and belief cause some terrible events.


As for Star Stuff, the blue text was not him speaking as a moderator. Only green text is reserved for moderators. So there was no abuse of power. Anyone can use any color except green.

I picked the wrong post I know. My bad. &)

I gave those sources to support greed as the cause of poverty and cancer, not the "main topic". 

The abuse of power, that comes from the terrible example star and pony set for their peers.

Religion is a product of belief.  What I can't seem to get anyone here to do is understand the meaning of the topic,"Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing", is to understand I just mean the theory of 'intelligent creation'. I wish I had worded it that way.  Hindsight is 20/20.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #907 on: May 05, 2013, 04:40:17 AM »
My point is made. Human's will be hateful,greedy, murdering, bigots, with or w/o belief in God.  You want something to blame?  Blame human nature because that's what it's called.
Apart form the implication that

(i) all humans are "hateful,greedy, murdering, bigots,"  when clearly it is only a very tiny percentage, and
(ii) greed is the main cause of suffering, when it is but one factor of which superstition and lack of education are probably the main ones,

I agree with you that the problems of the world are related to human nature and nothing to do with God. (But then nothing is to do with a non-existent god or gods.)

I didn't say all humans but I should have been more specific so I would not have been misunderstood. I'm learning. ;)

Never said it was the only factor.

You don't know how much that means to me. See you can agree with something I've said and maintain your position as an atheist just fine. Graybeard did and he's still as strong an atheist as ever.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #908 on: May 05, 2013, 04:43:31 AM »
Very interesting.  In post #884 (previous page), I merely offered a quote from Sigmund Freud.  Junebug has elected to "smite" me on this, and her reason was:  "mean, abuse of power".

Wow, just.......wow.


That's because you set a terrible example for your peers and your atheism. :'(
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #909 on: May 05, 2013, 04:51:49 AM »
I worked back from there (April 24th) to April 18th - which is before the "greed is bad" thing started, and I have been unable to see any sources listed.  Certainly I've seen no links, though it is possible that there may have been a "XXXX says that....." buried in one of your posts that I have missed.


Try "Shadows of Liberty" or American Greed or the documentary on The Koch Brothers.[/b]

Isn't the date up there 4/23? It says 4/22 under my posts but whatever, you have some pie in your face.

Indeed - I DID miss them - I suspected I might have done, like I said.  I apologise Junebug.  You suggested a couple of sourced before the big one you actually linked to.  My bad.

But my critique still stands.  Although it was not the first document you offered, it was the first I registered - and (whether you believe me or not), I thought it was the first evidence you had offered.  So I read it.  Then I read the research that it referenced.

And I found that the article was a hugely biased glurge that claimed things the study did not find, and badly misrepresented the study's findings to push its own agenda.

So again, I apologise that I missed your suggestion for those three items.  But please - tell me why should I assume that they are any more honest than the one that I DID read?

Thank you. I tried to tell you guys your anger was clouding your judgement.  It is clearly posted at the top "food for thought".  Just found it interesting and shared. I never said it supported anything I said.  Even if I did it's still a lame excuse and if you are truly sorry you'll stop this nonsense and go view it already!!!
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #910 on: May 05, 2013, 08:23:03 AM »
Human Nature is a fact not opinion.

This is the kind of statement that keeps getting you in trouble and you keep failing to understand why.

Read what you said: Human Nature is a fact not opinion.

Now, kindly explain (with some evidence as you will see demonstrated below) exactly how that is true. "Human nature" is an abstract, an idea, a phrase made up (ironically, by humans) to describe any number of different things, depending on who is speaking and in what context. You just throw these terms out with no frame of reference whatsoever, then you get defensive when someone calls you on it. Your language use is ...mushy. Vague. Unclear. Without appropriate context within the bigger conversation. Abstract even to you, by all appearances.

That does not in any way fit the definition of the word fact, which is:
fact [fakt] noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

(Before you get mad, let me state that I did a cut and paste from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact . The coincidental applicability of the italicized words is a coincidence. Don't read anything into them, it's just what the site stated.)

What you mean by human nature is not necessarily what anyone else means by those exact same words. If you insist on speaking in abstract terms with no accompanying support for your specific application of them, you're simply going to keep having the same endless circular conversations you've been having so far. Figure out how to say EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN WITHOUT RELYING ON VAGUE GENERALITIES and these conversations may actually be worth pursuing with you.

Or keep doing this, and keep being proven wrong. They're your 24 daily hours, you can spend them however you choose.

Still waiting.
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #911 on: May 05, 2013, 08:58:52 AM »
I picked the wrong post I know. My bad. &)

I gave those sources to support greed as the cause of poverty and cancer, not the "main topic". 

The abuse of power, that comes from the terrible example star and pony set for their peers.

Religion is a product of belief.  What I can't seem to get anyone here to do is understand the meaning of the topic,"Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing", is to understand I just mean the theory of 'intelligent creation'. I wish I had worded it that way.  Hindsight is 20/20.

you have demonstrated such an incapability to use reason and thought that I am embarrassed for you. I'm not candy coating any longer. Your use of "religion" is one of the more stupid things I have ever heard. It's like saying "swallowing cyanide isnt bad, its the results that are bad..." You just display a complete lack of depth in your thought that I didnt think was possible in sentient beings. Believing in god has made you this utterly incapable of forming a coherent idea, and that is also bad. Believing in god has made you mentally incapable of understanding the most simplest of ideas, and worse has made you want to parade these poor attributes in the least likely of all places; an atheistic website where critical thought and evidence takes center stage.

Believing in god has stripped you of any semblance of critical thought and reduced you to the cowardly, ducking, excuse making toddler we see today. That is why believing is bad. I cant suffer through your incoherent, inconsistent, thoughtless posts much longer. We are not buying your assertions, so stop asserting them. The "evidence" you posted is infantile and doesnt even support what youre saying.

Explain to us how the fuck you can sit here and try to explain away how your imaginary god helps you violating your free will, allows infants to starve to death violating their free will (did they choose to starve to death?), does anything at all, is "love" (as you like to assert), then out of the other side of your mouth you claim this utterly stupid and worthless god you dreamed up is a "mystery". Explain how you can come to all these god awful conclusions if this worthless SOB you worship is a mystery.

I mean damn, do you even think?

Sorry all, but JB is tiresome and dishonest as any that have arrived here during my tenure.

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #912 on: May 05, 2013, 09:14:44 AM »
You have demonstrated such an incapability to use reason and thought that I am embarrassed for you. I'm not candy coating any longer. Your use of "religion" is one of the more stupid things I have ever heard. It's like saying "swallowing cyanide isnt bad, its the results that are bad..." You just display a complete lack of depth in your thought that I didnt think was possible in sentient beings. Believing in god has made you this utterly incapable of forming a coherent idea, and that is also bad. Believing in god has made you mentally incapable of understanding the most simplest of ideas, and worse has made you want to parade these poor attributes in the least likely of all places; an atheistic website where critical thought and evidence takes center stage.

Believing in god has stripped you of any semblance of critical thought and reduced you to the cowardly, ducking, excuse making toddler we see today. That is why believing is bad. I cant suffer through your incoherent, inconsistent, thoughtless posts much longer. We are not buying your assertions, so stop asserting them. The "evidence" you posted is infantile and doesnt even support what youre saying.

Explain to us how the fuck you can sit here and try to explain away how your imaginary god helps you violating your free will, allows infants to starve to death violating their free will (did they choose to starve to death?), does anything at all, is "love" (as you like to assert), then out of the other side of your mouth you claim this utterly stupid and worthless god you dreamed up is a "mystery". Explain how you can come to all these god awful conclusions if this worthless SOB you worship is a mystery.

I mean damn, do you even think?

Sorry all, but JB is tiresome and dishonest as any that have arrived here during my tenure.

And then they have the audacity to label us as "angry".
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #913 on: May 05, 2013, 10:31:30 AM »
You don't know how much that means to me. See you can agree with something I've said and maintain your position as an atheist just fine. Graybeard did and he's still as strong an atheist as ever.
Well I guess as long as everyone starts to just agree with you then we can finally start to have a productive conversation.

Why are you under the impression that it is at all important for Graybeard or anyone else here to maintain their position as an atheist?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #914 on: May 05, 2013, 11:16:10 AM »
God don't starve the children greed does.  If God made more crops greed would just take it too.  The only way to stop that problem is to take care of greed.

Free will is not something you cling to, it's something you must try to understand.  I just can't believe you people would rather be controlled than make your own choices.
Please explain how it is not a violation of free will for god to have given you the strength to survive your trying times but it is a violation of free will for god to provide starving children food to survive their trying times.

Quote
Okay now lets look at things from the atheist perspective.  God doesn't exist, so what do you call mans privilege of choice?  My point is free will exists either way.
Free will cannot exist in the presence of an omniscient and omnipotent being. If you believe in an all-powerful creator, then:

A. He created us exactly the way we are (enormous capacity for greed and all) knowing this would be our nature and intending it to be so.

B. He knew every choice we will make the moment he created us.

These are not my opinions, they are logically indisputable conclusions given the above criteria. The only way humans actually could have free will is if an omnimax god does not exist.
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #915 on: May 05, 2013, 11:53:58 AM »

And then they have the audacity to label us as "angry".

I'm not even angry, but at what point do I start calling a spade a spade? I ignored this mental midget's insult thrown my way without as much as a retort. But dishonesty and actively pursuing ignorance doesnt deserve to be treated with kid gloves.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #916 on: May 05, 2013, 02:54:17 PM »
Very interesting.  In post #884 (previous page), I merely offered a quote from Sigmund Freud.  Junebug has elected to "smite" me on this, and her reason was:  "mean, abuse of power".

Wow, just.......wow.
The post is http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,24709.msg552939.html#msg552939

Junebug,

You have given a smite to someone who was quoting someone else. This is not the point of the system. The point is to show your appreciation of or, dissatisfaction with, the way that the ideas in a post were expressed or how much insight they carried.

I know that many atheists here hand out positive points to well thought-out posts by believers and vice versa.

It certainly is not for posts that upset you, for whatever reason. Those posts, if there is any real substance to them, should be reported to a moderator.

If you want to smite someone, smite Sigmund Freud, not someone who quotes him!

GB Mod
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #917 on: May 05, 2013, 03:01:49 PM »
Piggybacking on Graybeard's post above to say that you still have not offered any explanation of false accusations for which you smited me. You responded, as you do, but in so doing you failed to explain your accusation of false accusations. What did I say that was false?
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Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #918 on: May 05, 2013, 06:54:55 PM »
Religion is a product of belief.  What I can't seem to get anyone here to do is understand the meaning of the topic,"Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing", is to understand I just mean the theory of 'intelligent creation'. I wish I had worded it that way.  Hindsight is 20/20.

It took you 32 pages to consider that perhaps you chose your words badly? Really? We've been trying to get that through to you for 30 of the last 32 pages, and you finally notice.

Glad to see that your claims of solid reading comprehension hold up under scrutiny.

Are you willing to reconsider your part in all this now? Willing to perhaps look back at some of the many, many points you've been refusing to consider because you've been doing a crappy job of expressing yourself clearly? Do some of them make a little more sense now? Or are you still too committed to your own version of English to catch on that you've been arguing against things no one has said except you?
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #919 on: May 05, 2013, 07:55:38 PM »
Very interesting.  In post #884 (previous page), I merely offered a quote from Sigmund Freud.  Junebug has elected to "smite" me on this, and her reason was:  "mean, abuse of power".

Wow, just.......wow.
The post is http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,24709.msg552939.html#msg552939

Junebug,

You have given a smite to someone who was quoting someone else. This is not the point of the system. The point is to show your appreciation of or, dissatisfaction with, the way that the ideas in a post were expressed or how much insight they carried.

I know that many atheists here hand out positive points to well thought-out posts by believers and vice versa.

It certainly is not for posts that upset you, for whatever reason. Those posts, if there is any real substance to them, should be reported to a moderator.

If you want to smite someone, smite Sigmund Freud, not someone who quotes him!

GB Mod


Junebug went on a smitefest.  I think it was yesterday.  I was online and posting while it was happening.  She smited a half a dozen people in just a few minutes.  I was not among those who received a smite, but I watched her behavior and felt like she was just having a temper tantrum.  It seems to me to be an abuse of the system. 


Edited for bad formatting
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 07:57:43 PM by Quesi »

Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #920 on: May 05, 2013, 08:52:18 PM »
Junebug: "I have answered all of your questions because all of my opinions, which are facts, is my evidence. I keep telling you this but you just don't listen to me!"

;)

-Nam

Following a complaint and for the record, and although this is clearly a paraphrasing, Junebug actually said
I have answered your questions, you can say I haven't 1000 times still don't make it so.

GB Mod

I know this is old but first time seeing it:

I wasn't paraphrasing a specific comment; it's tongue-in-cheek; it's an agglomation of all her whining up to that point.

So Junebug was incorrect in thinking I was rephrasing something she specifically stated and Graybeard is wrong for the same thing.

Okay back to her nonsense posts.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #921 on: May 05, 2013, 10:09:57 PM »
Oh, noes. Someone brought up "free will", a concept not mentioned in the Bible, due to the writers of it not deciding what God was, in any particular book.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #922 on: May 06, 2013, 01:23:06 AM »
But my critique still stands.  Although it was not the first document you offered, it was the first I registered - and (whether you believe me or not), I thought it was the first evidence you had offered.  So I read it.  Then I read the research that it referenced.

And I found that the article was a hugely biased glurge that claimed things the study did not find, and badly misrepresented the study's findings to push its own agenda.

So again, I apologise that I missed your suggestion for those three items. But please - tell me why should I assume that they are any more honest than the one that I DID read?

Thank you. I tried to tell you guys your anger was clouding your judgement.  It is clearly posted at the top "food for thought".  Just found it interesting and shared. I never said it supported anything I said.  Even if I did it's still a lame excuse and if you are truly sorry you'll stop this nonsense and go view it already!!!

So you are STILL dodging the questions?  This is where any anger comes from Junebug, at your constant dodging.  I was wrong it was the first thing you posted, yes.  But so what? 

It doesn't matter whether it was "food for thought" or the best article you'd got.  The fact remains you said "hey, read this!" - and the article was dishonest, biased, and manipulative.So I'll ask again - WHY should I assume that anything else you ask us to read will be any better?  WHY did you choose that article to share?  Did you read the study that     it claimed to use as evidence, or did you just think "this fits my opinion, I'll post it without any further     checking?"
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #923 on: May 06, 2013, 05:23:07 AM »
Human Nature is a fact not opinion.

This is the kind of statement that keeps getting you in trouble and you keep failing to understand why.

Read what you said: Human Nature is a fact not opinion.

Now, kindly explain (with some evidence as you will see demonstrated below) exactly how that is true. "Human nature" is an abstract, an idea, a phrase made up (ironically, by humans) to describe any number of different things, depending on who is speaking and in what context. You just throw these terms out with no frame of reference whatsoever, then you get defensive when someone calls you on it. Your language use is ...mushy. Vague. Unclear. Without appropriate context within the bigger conversation. Abstract even to you, by all appearances.

That does not in any way fit the definition of the word fact, which is:
fact [fakt] noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

(Before you get mad, let me state that I did a cut and paste from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact . The coincidental applicability of the italicized words is a coincidence. Don't read anything into them, it's just what the site stated.)

What you mean by human nature is not necessarily what anyone else means by those exact same words. If you insist on speaking in abstract terms with no accompanying support for your specific application of them, you're simply going to keep having the same endless circular conversations you've been having so far. Figure out how to say EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN WITHOUT RELYING ON VAGUE GENERALITIES and these conversations may actually be worth pursuing with you.

Or keep doing this, and keep being proven wrong. They're your 24 daily hours, you can spend them however you choose.

Still waiting.

No the reason why is because you hate believers.  My gosh how many meanings can "human nature" have?  Look it up on wikipedia, that's what I meant.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #924 on: May 06, 2013, 05:45:06 AM »
You people kill me. I have spent a large majority of my time defending myself from unfounded accusations. I don't speak clearly, I am stupid, I don't know science, I am mentally ill, I am prejudice against the mentally ill, I Believe in the Bible(so many times on that one), I am Christian(again many times), I am not a critical thinker, unreasonable, I think that about covers it. Oh wait my favorite, question dodger. Can't leave that one out. My, my it's a wonder I survived one day here!!!


I hung in there though, proved you wrong time after time.  I don't have anything to be ashamed of.  Anybody with half a brain will see this for what it is.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #925 on: May 06, 2013, 06:50:02 AM »
You people kill me. I have spent a large majority of my time defending myself from unfounded accusations. I don't speak clearly, I am stupid, I don't know science, I am mentally ill, I am prejudice against the mentally ill, I Believe in the Bible(so many times on that one), I am Christian(again many times), I am not a critical thinker, unreasonable, I think that about covers it. Oh wait my favorite, question dodger. Can't leave that one out. My, my it's a wonder I survived one day here!!!


I hung in there though, proved you wrong time after time.  I don't have anything to be ashamed of.  Anybody with half a brain will see this for what it is.
This is how I can show you that you dont think critically.

You stated that you believe in Jesus. The ONLY places you find anything about this Jesus character are in the bible and qu'ran, much more so in the bible. Therefore, for you to believe in this jesus character YOU MUST BELIEVE THE BIBLE. Its as simple as that. If you dont believe the bible you have no support for your jesus beliefs (although support isnt something youre good at). Had you thought critically about your beliefs you would be able to see that. Guess what people who "believe in jesus" are called... CHRISTIANS. Now, to take it even further, I know why you claim neither the bible or christianity. Its because they dont accept you as a lesbian. So in order for you to keep your belief system (religion) you had to drop (on the surface) those facets of belief that made you uncomfortable or unacceptable. Your story is easy to piece together... if you actually thought for one moment in your life. There's no real mystery here.

Continue on with your dodging, dishonesty, and lack of thought.

Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #926 on: May 06, 2013, 08:33:56 AM »
Human Nature is a fact not opinion.

This is the kind of statement that keeps getting you in trouble and you keep failing to understand why.

Read what you said: Human Nature is a fact not opinion.

Now, kindly explain (with some evidence as you will see demonstrated below) exactly how that is true. "Human nature" is an abstract, an idea, a phrase made up (ironically, by humans) to describe any number of different things, depending on who is speaking and in what context. You just throw these terms out with no frame of reference whatsoever, then you get defensive when someone calls you on it. Your language use is ...mushy. Vague. Unclear. Without appropriate context within the bigger conversation. Abstract even to you, by all appearances.

That does not in any way fit the definition of the word fact, which is:
fact [fakt] noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

(Before you get mad, let me state that I did a cut and paste from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact . The coincidental applicability of the italicized words is a coincidence. Don't read anything into them, it's just what the site stated.)

What you mean by human nature is not necessarily what anyone else means by those exact same words. If you insist on speaking in abstract terms with no accompanying support for your specific application of them, you're simply going to keep having the same endless circular conversations you've been having so far. Figure out how to say EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN WITHOUT RELYING ON VAGUE GENERALITIES and these conversations may actually be worth pursuing with you.

Or keep doing this, and keep being proven wrong. They're your 24 daily hours, you can spend them however you choose.

Still waiting.

No the reason why is because you hate believers.  My gosh how many meanings can "human nature" have?  Look it up on wikipedia, that's what I meant.

This is still not in any way a response to my question to you. Catch up junebug, I'm losing patience with giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Nothing in wikipedia trumps the dictionary definition I provided for you.  YOUR OWN WORDS, junebug, clearly stating your position with no generalities and vague phrases that are subject to interpretation - is this really such a difficult concept for you to grasp?
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #927 on: May 06, 2013, 09:33:50 AM »
You people kill me. I have spent a large majority of my time defending myself from unfounded accusations. I don't speak clearly, I am stupid, I don't know science, I am mentally ill, I am prejudice against the mentally ill, I Believe in the Bible(so many times on that one), I am Christian(again many times), I am not a critical thinker, unreasonable, I think that about covers it. Oh wait my favorite, question dodger. Can't leave that one out. My, my it's a wonder I survived one day here!!!


I hung in there though, proved you wrong time after time.  I don't have anything to be ashamed of.  Anybody with half a brain will see this for what it is.
Sheer, unabashed, unadulterated, absolute arrogance.  I'm well aware that you don't think you're an arrogant twit with a persecution complex.  Doesn't change what I'm seeing.  You really, honestly, truly, should be ashamed of yourself.  You should hang your head down in utter embarrassment with the way you've conducted yourself here.  I am saddened by you.  Your inability to look beyond your own "I am right" clause is making you staggeringly blind to any and everything that doesn't originate from your own consciousness.

You go ahead and get others to read through this entire thread.  See if they disagree with me.  Go for it.  Find as many other sentient creatures that you can - be they loved ones, friends, acquaintances, strangers, people you respect, people you disrespect - and see if their assessment of your behavior and discussion is anywhere remotely close to the way you assess it. 

Because no one here is making a f**king dent with you.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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