Author Topic: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing  (Read 28261 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anfauglir

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6184
  • Darwins +407/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #841 on: May 01, 2013, 08:24:35 AM »
Second of all I have never challenged your beliefs; you challenge mine.

Interesting.  So when you said:

I just wanted folks to see how you disagree with me (on greed causing pollution) even when I'm so obviously right. Your disapproval is biased and unreliable.
...without even asking what reasons I had or asking to see my evidence, how was that NOT challenging my beliefs?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6184
  • Darwins +407/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #842 on: May 01, 2013, 08:34:40 AM »
Quote from: junebug72
I believe in God because I don't believe in luck. That's the only reason I believe in God.
What do you mean by that, that you don't believe in luck?  There's several ways you could mean this.

Jaime I'm very frustrated this morning so you let it mean what you think it means.  If you use what you learned in school about defining words with the sentence around it I'm sure you'll come up with something.

Yeah.  Why try to eliminate confusion by actually answering a specific question?

In context, it could mean that when you say "luck", you mean "chance"?  That you mean that there is no conceivable way that the particular circumstances that gave rise to life on earth could EVER have happened without direction?  It could be a specific belief about the chances of abiogenesis.

Or you might mean that nothing in anyone's life happens by chance - that every thing that happens anywhere is directed by your god.  That there is no such thing as chance meetings, or coincidences, but that every moment of every day is set up specifically by your god.

Given that "you don't believe in luck", I suspect that the latter is more your intended meaning - that there's no good luck, no bad luck, no chance, that everything happens for a reason and that reason is the specific will of your god.

So.....are you planning on clarifying which (if either) you actually meant?  Both are equally valid in the context of your response there.  The former would perhaps make more sense given your previous assertions, but "I don't believe in luck" is an absolute so would tend to imply the latter.

It's why we asked YOU to clarify it, rather than guessing. 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1999
  • Darwins +71/-80
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #843 on: May 01, 2013, 08:37:51 AM »
It seems like the only way junebug can hold onto her "belief" in a benevolent supernatural diety is to try to blame all bad things on human beings. And junebug has decided that everything bad that people do is caused by "greed", even if the action is done out of innocence or ignorance.

It is perfectly possible to make a mistake--or to just have plain old bad luck.  A friend was pregnant and developed a clot in her umbilical cord. The baby died inside her, and she never got over it.  Maybe she should not have smoked dope back in college, or maybe she should have exercised more. She will question herself forever.

Not everything is someone's fault. But mistakes and bad luck don't fit very well with a benevolent god who loves us all, does it?

A young woman chokes on some food at dinner and dies, leaving her husband permanently damaged by grief. He is unable to work, starts drinking and neglects his children. How is that due to greed, or bad religion?

An active young guy trips and falls down some stairs and ends up paralyzed from the neck down. He finds this very difficult to cope with, despite many friends, good social services and modern medical care. He becomes severely depressed.  How is his situation due to greed, or bad religion?

It is hard to blame greed in all cases of human behaving badly. This is another example that has been documented fairly well:

An isolated tribal group hunts food by digging a big pit and driving the animals into it by setting fire to the forest. Then they share food freely with all the members of the tribe, eating all they they can and leaving the rest to rot or to scavengers.

After a couple hundred years, some animals are extinct and the forest has been destroyed. They have permanently damaged the forest and upset the ecosystem forever. The tribe starves.

If they had better weapons, they would not have to use pits for hunting, but then they would have better weapons. They are not agressive and don't need sophisticated weapons. The forest has always provided, and they don't need to change. They have been doing the pit thing for centuries. But eventually it ruins their society.

Innocently, without any greed at all, their bare-bones subsistence hunter-gatherer lifestyle has destroyed their livelihood.   All without religion and without any particular "belief" other than to do what their ancestors did. Just ignorance about the long-term consequences of their actions.

Why couldn't a benevolent god show them a better way to survive?

How many times do I have to tell you I don't blame Greed for everything, but it is a very very large part of human suffering. Shall I make copies for you Sep. Getting on my nerves.  Third time's the charm right.

It is mankind's own doings. Matter of fact isn't that how you feel about it? Or did you decide you believe in God now?

The only reason greed was brought up in this discussion is because you guys blame belief for poverty and that is not truth. Greed creates poverty.


Second of all I have never challenged your beliefs; you challenge mine.

Interesting.  So when you said:

I just wanted folks to see how you disagree with me (on greed causing pollution) even when I'm so obviously right. Your disapproval is biased and unreliable.
...without even asking what reasons I had or asking to see my evidence, how was that NOT challenging my beliefs?


I was talking about your non belief in God.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline Star Stuff

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5732
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Carbon-based life form.
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #844 on: May 01, 2013, 08:39:14 AM »
Not to mention I have not disregarded belief in God,  I disregard their religion.

From today's "Quote of the Day":

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.  (Mark Twain)
God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1999
  • Darwins +71/-80
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #845 on: May 01, 2013, 08:41:37 AM »
Quote from: junebug72
I believe in God because I don't believe in luck. That's the only reason I believe in God.
What do you mean by that, that you don't believe in luck?  There's several ways you could mean this.

Jaime I'm very frustrated this morning so you let it mean what you think it means.  If you use what you learned in school about defining words with the sentence around it I'm sure you'll come up with something.

Yeah.  Why try to eliminate confusion by actually answering a specific question?

In context, it could mean that when you say "luck", you mean "chance"?  That you mean that there is no conceivable way that the particular circumstances that gave rise to life on earth could EVER have happened without direction?  It could be a specific belief about the chances of abiogenesis.

Or you might mean that nothing in anyone's life happens by chance - that every thing that happens anywhere is directed by your god.  That there is no such thing as chance meetings, or coincidences, but that every moment of every day is set up specifically by your god.

Given that "you don't believe in luck", I suspect that the latter is more your intended meaning - that there's no good luck, no bad luck, no chance, that everything happens for a reason and that reason is the specific will of your god.

So.....are you planning on clarifying which (if either) you actually meant?  Both are equally valid in the context of your response there.  The former would perhaps make more sense given your previous assertions, but "I don't believe in luck" is an absolute so would tend to imply the latter.

It's why we asked YOU to clarify it, rather than guessing.

I have answered your questions, you can say I haven't 1000 times still don't make it so.

I have rested my case Anf. Nam did prove my point for me. I am done. There is nothing left that you can say that will undo what has been done. It's over.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline Anfauglir

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6184
  • Darwins +407/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #846 on: May 01, 2013, 08:45:40 AM »
Second of all I have never challenged your beliefs; you challenge mine.

Interesting.  So when you said:

I just wanted folks to see how you disagree with me (on greed causing pollution) even when I'm so obviously right. Your disapproval is biased and unreliable.
...without even asking what reasons I had or asking to see my evidence, how was that NOT challenging my beliefs?


I was talking about your non belief in God.

How do you know they are not related?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6184
  • Darwins +407/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #847 on: May 01, 2013, 08:50:07 AM »
Quote from: junebug72
I believe in God because I don't believe in luck. That's the only reason I believe in God.
What do you mean by that, that you don't believe in luck?  There's several ways you could mean this.

Jaime I'm very frustrated this morning so you let it mean what you think it means.  If you use what you learned in school about defining words with the sentence around it I'm sure you'll come up with something.

Yeah.  Why try to eliminate confusion by actually answering a specific question?

In context, it could mean that when you say "luck", you mean "chance"?  That you mean that there is no conceivable way that the particular circumstances that gave rise to life on earth could EVER have happened without direction?  It could be a specific belief about the chances of abiogenesis.

Or you might mean that nothing in anyone's life happens by chance - that every thing that happens anywhere is directed by your god.  That there is no such thing as chance meetings, or coincidences, but that every moment of every day is set up specifically by your god.

Given that "you don't believe in luck", I suspect that the latter is more your intended meaning - that there's no good luck, no bad luck, no chance, that everything happens for a reason and that reason is the specific will of your god.

So.....are you planning on clarifying which (if either) you actually meant?  Both are equally valid in the context of your response there.  The former would perhaps make more sense given your previous assertions, but "I don't believe in luck" is an absolute so would tend to imply the latter.

It's why we asked YOU to clarify it, rather than guessing.

I have answered your questions, you can say I haven't 1000 times still don't make it so.

I have rested my case Anf. Nam did prove my point for me. I am done. There is nothing left that you can say that will undo what has been done. It's over.

I see.  Is that why you DIDN'T answer my question here where I tried try to clarify what you meant by "luck"?

EDIT:  I will, if you wish, go back and list all the occasions where you did not give a specific answer when asked a specific question, and compare them to the number of times when you did.  Do you really want me to do that?  I feel confident the facts will back me up if I do - and if not, I will naturally apologise. 

Do you want me to do that?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 08:56:29 AM by Anfauglir »
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1841
  • Darwins +315/-6
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #848 on: May 01, 2013, 08:53:56 AM »
Thanks Dawg but I got this. All Questions need to be answered, hell I answer them and get told I don't answer them, that's what I'm trying to avoid.

There is nothing "simple" about reading these responses!!!
So there is basically no way you'll read this response without feeling insulted.  Please understand that I have no intention of insulting you for the sake of insult.

Have you ever thought that maybe...just maybe...some of the answers that you give:
a) do not address the point of the question
b) do not provide a satisfactory answer
c) are insufficiently clear in providing an answer
d) answer the question presented to you but contradict other claims that you've set out as 'true'
e) are wrong

You seem to always go with:
f) the other posters here are stupid, ignorant, hateful, or biased

Junebug72, this is just what I'm observing.  I could be wrong - I could be misreading.

I have answered your questions, you can say I haven't 1000 times still don't make it so.
And just because you think you've answered a question doesn't make it so.  Just because you respond doesn't mean you've answered anything.
Quote
I have rested my case Anf. Nam did prove my point for me. I am done. There is nothing left that you can say that will undo what has been done. It's over.
The salient point you seem to keep missing is that your case sucks.  Nam didn't prove your point.  As I said earlier, all that proved is that one need not have a belief in god to be an a**hole.  This is predicated on the idea that your point is 'believing in god is not a bad thing'.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12208
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #849 on: May 01, 2013, 08:59:45 AM »
What, you mean from Nam?  I havn't insulted you, junebug.  At least not deliberately.  I've been trying to be respectful.

Believing in an evil god is not a bad or stupid thing to do either, eh?

Your insult:

Quote
If people think that about you on here, I suspect it has more to do with your difficulty in carrying on a meaningful discussion, rather than the mere fact that you believe in a deity. reply 682

Thanks.

Uhh...that's an observation of how the thread has gone.  You have had difficulty communicating effectively.  If you find that truth to be insulting, then that's not my fault.  It was not meant as an insult, but as a counter to the idea that merely because you believe in a god, people here hate you (etc.).  Try reading how magicmiles communicates sometime.  He's a Christian who manages just fine.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1999
  • Darwins +71/-80
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #850 on: May 01, 2013, 09:01:50 AM »
I have proven my point here. People will be hateful and detrimental to society with or without belief. I have shown where greed, fear, ego are responsible for human suffering and that religion was an answer to that suffering and was itself influenced by greed, fear and ego. 

This was not an easy battle either. I had very worthy adversaries that scrutinized every word I have said and challenged my intellect. They do raise extremely valid concerns about religious beliefs that I truly hope any believer will take to heart. 

People need to work together for the common good as well as look out for #1.

I am going to focus on this debate with Anf now.

Thank you for everything I have learned from you and letting me be a part of your discussion.

I wish you all the happiness in the World,

Junebug72
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1999
  • Darwins +71/-80
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #851 on: May 01, 2013, 09:02:46 AM »
What, you mean from Nam?  I havn't insulted you, junebug.  At least not deliberately.  I've been trying to be respectful.

Believing in an evil god is not a bad or stupid thing to do either, eh?

Your insult:

Quote
If people think that about you on here, I suspect it has more to do with your difficulty in carrying on a meaningful discussion, rather than the mere fact that you believe in a deity. reply 682

Thanks.

Uhh...that's an observation of how the thread has gone.  You have had difficulty communicating effectively.  If you find that truth to be insulting, then that's not my fault.  It was not meant as an insult, but as a counter to the idea that merely because you believe in a god, people here hate you (etc.).  Try reading how magicmiles communicates sometime.  He's a Christian who manages just fine.

I haven't had difficulty communicating, you've had difficulty understanding.  I'm tired of these petty arguments with you.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline Dante

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2135
  • Darwins +70/-8
  • Gender: Male
  • Hedonist Extraordinaire
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #852 on: May 01, 2013, 09:13:57 AM »
I haven't had difficulty communicating, you've had difficulty understanding. 

Then you haven't been communicating effectively. It's really that simple.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12208
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #853 on: May 01, 2013, 09:25:20 AM »
I was referring mainly to your discussions with others, junebug, not with me.  Unless you're saying that the problem isn't you, it's everyone else...
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1841
  • Darwins +315/-6
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #854 on: May 01, 2013, 09:27:03 AM »
I have proven my point here. People will be hateful and detrimental to society with or without belief. I have shown where greed, fear, ego are responsible for human suffering and that religion was an answer to that suffering and was itself influenced by greed, fear and ego. 
...and if 'believing in god is not a bad thing' was your point, YOU HAVE FAILED TO MAKE IT[1].
Quote
This was not an easy battle either. I had very worthy adversaries that scrutinized every word I have said and challenged my intellect. They do raise extremely valid concerns about religious beliefs that I truly hope any believer will take to heart. 
They are extremely valid concerns about your beliefs.  Yours.  The s**t that you believe.  They are concerns about what you believe.  Yes, you hate the label 'religion'.  Fine.  Don't use it.  But stop pretending like these concerns magically disappear when you drop the label.
 1. At this point, yes, this is me interweb-yelling
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4608
  • Darwins +502/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #855 on: May 01, 2013, 10:03:12 AM »
Jaime I'm very frustrated this morning so you let it mean what you think it means.  If you use what you learned in school about defining words with the sentence around it I'm sure you'll come up with something.
If you're frustrated, don't take it out on me.  I would honestly suggest that if you're getting this frustrated, you should probably take a break from posting for a while (a few hours, a day, however long it takes).  I do that, and it goes a long way towards letting me keep an even keel.

In regards to your recent point that people will do bad things with or without belief, I would like to point out an additional thing.  Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it's ordinary human impulses and emotions that lead people to do bad things.  In other words, simply having a belief in God (or gods) doesn't prevent someone from doing bad things.  On top of that, due the tendency people have to rationalize their actions, I would say that a believer who does bad things has convinced themselves that those bad things are actually good and thus is harder to dissuade than someone who is doing them out of purely selfish impulses.

The selfish person who does not believe never went through the rationalization process to make themselves think that something bad was actually done for good reasons, and thus should be easier to reason with, because they won't have convinced themselves that God supports their actions and thus it is good and godly to continue doing those actions.  In other words, because of their belief, believers have to convince themselves that evil is actually good, and having done so, will then use that argument to sway others.

In other words, belief in God is a bad thing when it's used to justify bad actions.  And the believer doesn't have to be part of an organized religion to do this.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12208
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #856 on: May 01, 2013, 10:08:53 AM »
One little quibble with that, jaime:  We non-believers engage in rationalization (bad actions -> good actions) all the time, do we not?  I think the difference is that in the case of theists, the actions aren't just good, they're dictated from an external entity for whom they are not responsible.  It's less of a difference than you're indicating, but still a significant one, imo.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Mrjason

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1141
  • Darwins +82/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #857 on: May 01, 2013, 10:10:07 AM »
I have proven my point here[1]. People will be hateful and detrimental to society with or without belief[2]. I have shown where greed, fear, ego are responsible for human suffering and that religion was an answer to that suffering and was itself influenced by greed, fear and ego.[3] 
....
 1. How?
 2. what has this got to do with belief in god not being a bad thing?
 3. that's disproving your point

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4608
  • Darwins +502/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #858 on: May 01, 2013, 10:45:31 AM »
Actually, that's what I was trying to get at, Azdgari.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12208
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #859 on: May 01, 2013, 03:27:05 PM »
Ahh.  Yeah I wasn't sure about my interpretation there.  Glad we're on the same page...just like that earlier post of yours.  ;)
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11679
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #860 on: May 01, 2013, 05:20:34 PM »
I have proven my point here. People will be hateful and detrimental to society with or without belief. I have shown where greed, fear, ego are responsible for human suffering and that religion was an answer to that suffering and was itself influenced by greed, fear and ego. 

This was not an easy battle either. I had very worthy adversaries that scrutinized every word I have said and challenged my intellect. They do raise extremely valid concerns about religious beliefs that I truly hope any believer will take to heart. 

People need to work together for the common good as well as look out for #1.

I am going to focus on this debate with Anf now.

Thank you for everything I have learned from you and letting me be a part of your discussion.

I wish you all the happiness in the World,

Junebug72

The only thing you've proven is how much an idiot you are. The very idea that you see your opinions as being facts shows that.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline The Gawd

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
  • Darwins +78/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #861 on: May 01, 2013, 07:47:03 PM »


Yes I did. If you really want me to go back there and find it for you I will but it's going to make you look dumb and lazy. Here's a clue, it was a reply to Jag.

I am willing to risk it. You'll have to see if you can find where you answered that question satisfactorily (without other unsubstantiated claims) because I cannot find it among all the ducking and dodging. I am quite confident that even if you did manage to sneak an answer in these 30 pages of back and forth that my reputation will come out unscathed, but I appreciate your concern.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12208
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #862 on: May 01, 2013, 08:22:56 PM »
She answered one of mine, though it took two tries.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Jag

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1595
  • Darwins +174/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Official WWGHA Harpy, Ex-rosary squad
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #863 on: May 02, 2013, 09:06:20 AM »


Yes I did. If you really want me to go back there and find it for you I will but it's going to make you look dumb and lazy. Here's a clue, it was a reply to Jag.

I am willing to risk it. You'll have to see if you can find where you answered that question satisfactorily (without other unsubstantiated claims) because I cannot find it among all the ducking and dodging. I am quite confident that even if you did manage to sneak an answer in these 30 pages of back and forth that my reputation will come out unscathed, but I appreciate your concern.

Here's another clue - I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer to anything yet. Feel free to dig through anything that's been posted in response to me or my questions, but don't count on it supporting your position jb.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Anfauglir

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6184
  • Darwins +407/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #864 on: May 03, 2013, 03:19:20 AM »
Its quite interesting.  Four or five of us now have said "you haven't answered us, and we're prepared to go back and prove it if you want".....and Junebug has quietly stepped away from the thread.

You'd think if she was so sure that she would be proved right, she would be right here saying "bring it on!".....
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11679
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #865 on: May 03, 2013, 03:35:29 AM »
Junebug: "I have answered all of your questions because all of my opinions, which are facts, is my evidence. I keep telling you this but you just don't listen to me!"

;)

-Nam

Following a complaint and for the record, and although this is clearly a paraphrasing, Junebug actually said
I have answered your questions, you can say I haven't 1000 times still don't make it so.

GB Mod
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 03:54:49 PM by Graybeard »
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1999
  • Darwins +71/-80
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #866 on: May 03, 2013, 04:42:41 AM »
Jaime I'm very frustrated this morning so you let it mean what you think it means.  If you use what you learned in school about defining words with the sentence around it I'm sure you'll come up with something.
If you're frustrated, don't take it out on me.  I would honestly suggest that if you're getting this frustrated, you should probably take a break from posting for a while (a few hours, a day, however long it takes).  I do that, and it goes a long way towards letting me keep an even keel.

In regards to your recent point that people will do bad things with or without belief, I would like to point out an additional thing.  Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it's ordinary human impulses and emotions that lead people to do bad things.  In other words, simply having a belief in God (or gods) doesn't prevent someone from doing bad things.  On top of that, due the tendency people have to rationalize their actions, I would say that a believer who does bad things has convinced themselves that those bad things are actually good and thus is harder to dissuade than someone who is doing them out of purely selfish impulses.

The selfish person who does not believe never went through the rationalization process to make themselves think that something bad was actually done for good reasons, and thus should be easier to reason with, because they won't have convinced themselves that God supports their actions and thus it is good and godly to continue doing those actions.  In other words, because of their belief, believers have to convince themselves that evil is actually good, and having done so, will then use that argument to sway others.

In other words, belief in God is a bad thing when it's used to justify bad actions.  And the believer doesn't have to be part of an organized religion to do this.

If they didn't use the "god excuse" they would find another reason.

Sorry I did have a moment, I am a human being on the other side of the screen.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 04:46:03 AM by junebug72 »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1999
  • Darwins +71/-80
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #867 on: May 03, 2013, 04:48:08 AM »
Junebug: "I have answered all of your questions because all of my opinions, which are facts, is my evidence. I keep telling you this but you just don't listen to me!"

;)

-Nam

Where did that quote come from? I think it's been altered. Isn't that against the rules?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1999
  • Darwins +71/-80
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #868 on: May 03, 2013, 04:51:08 AM »
Its quite interesting.  Four or five of us now have said "you haven't answered us, and we're prepared to go back and prove it if you want".....and Junebug has quietly stepped away from the thread.

You'd think if she was so sure that she would be proved right, she would be right here saying "bring it on!".....

Bring it on!
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1999
  • Darwins +71/-80
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #869 on: May 03, 2013, 04:59:52 AM »


Yes I did. If you really want me to go back there and find it for you I will but it's going to make you look dumb and lazy. Here's a clue, it was a reply to Jag.

I am willing to risk it. You'll have to see if you can find where you answered that question satisfactorily (without other unsubstantiated claims) because I cannot find it among all the ducking and dodging. I am quite confident that even if you did manage to sneak an answer in these 30 pages of back and forth that my reputation will come out unscathed, but I appreciate your concern.

Here's another clue - I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer to anything yet. Feel free to dig through anything that's been posted in response to me or my questions, but don't count on it supporting your position jb.

You have no intention of letting any of my answers satisfy you.  My point is made. Human's will be hateful,greedy, murdering, bigots, with or w/o belief in God.  You want something to blame?  Blame human nature because that's what it's called.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99