Author Topic: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing  (Read 37790 times)

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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #754 on: April 30, 2013, 05:25:29 AM »
I'm not threatening you. If you believe that's a threat then you are an idiot.
Ah, so it was one of those "it's not a threat it's a promise" statements?  Same difference.  You're still attempting to insult my intelligence as an arguing tactic, which seldom works well.  That was part of what I was driving at - you're aiming to get people emotionally upset at you, rather than making rational points to convince them and others.

Quote from: Nam
One can't excuse what people say they can only hope to correct what they say, if wrong, and hope they learn from it.
Perhaps you'd best think on why I'm criticizing your attitude, then.  Because it really sounds like you're using excuses and sophistry to justify not listening to other people's arguments.

Quote from: Nam
You gave ladybug an excuse, which is idiotic. Because she can then use said excuse in the future. If she came up with it on her own then I think most would see her as trying to make excuses for her statements, and think her an idiot, in my opinion.
And what makes you think I was giving her an excuse?  Explain your reasoning, don't just assume that people understand or agree with you.

Quote from: Nam
But you did it for her based solely, on what? The stupidity she has already voiced? That, then, would make you the idiot.
Do you know what the difference between an excuse and a reason is?  That's not a rhetorical question.

Quote from: Nam
I don't threaten people. I say what's on my mind without apology.
Doesn't seem to be working too well, does it?  Not with her, not with me.  Maybe you should stop and think about why it's not working, instead of just continuing to do it.

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #755 on: April 30, 2013, 05:33:20 AM »
I will just have to say that I have successfully carried on a meaningful conversation for 24 pages now. The posts are back there plain as day for all to see.

Usually when it lasts for 24 pages with little or no progress past the starting points for anyone involved, that's not classified as "success".  If there was success somewhere in there, then it wouldn't still be going on 24 pages later.

I have said that some people's beliefs such as the one's you mention here are bad. Where we part ways is here: I don't think people can help believing in God. I think good beliefs will become more common and eventually wipe out the bad ones. There is already a tilt in the scale in the right direction.

Maybe so.  Maybe not.  Anyway, I was just trying to get you to acknowledge that "belief in God" can, in some cases, be a bad thing.  And I succeeded.  Hmm, maybe there's some success along the way after all.

Well at least I have more than insults, so I'm doing better than you.

You have only described bad religion.  This post is about belief w/o all that religion and so far you have all failed.

Believing in God is not a bad thing or a stupid thing to do!!!  Following religions that disgrace God is a bad thing!!!
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #756 on: April 30, 2013, 05:36:02 AM »
You have only described bad religion.  This post is about belief w/o all that religion and so far you have all failed.

Believing in God is not a bad thing or a stupid thing to do!!!  Following religions that disgrace God is a bad thing!!!

Perhaps then you need to explain the point at which "belief" becomes "religion".

The belief "there is god" could perhaps not be termed a "religion".  Once you start ascribing motivations and desires to that god, though, does it not become a religion?

Can you give your definitions please of "belief" and "religion", so that we can see where you believe the distinction is?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #757 on: April 30, 2013, 06:16:34 AM »
I just came here to tell Atheists and Gays that God Loves You... Do you know how many suicides there are among gays? The answer isn't tell them God doesn't exist, you tell them God loves you I don't care what those religious people say.

Junebug, I am no longer accepting any secondhand reports from humans as regards the emotions, intentions or instructions of gods.  I know all too well from My own experiences how easy it is to "hear" the voice of a being that isn't actually there.  Furthermore, I am strongly of the opinion that any god worthy of the name should at least be able to communicate directly and unambiguously rather than resorting to middlemen.

A "love" that is just words on an invisible blackboard, and which does not translate into real-world action, is not worth the invisible chalk it's written in.  Where is your god when people are being bullied, some to the point of chronic PTSD, others so unrelentingly that they choose to end their lives rather than endure another day of pain?  If your god does indeed care what happens to those people, its concern is quite obviously without material effect in the real world, and therefore of no assistance to the purported beneficiaries of that concern.  Being told "God loves you" is worse than useless in that context.

At the heart of it all, when I hear "God loves you," I don't want to hear a subtext of "Trust that it'll be better in heaven."  I don't want to hear "I don't know why you're going through that ordeal, but I'm sure there's a reason for it."  And I certainly don't want the subtext to be "You ingrate!  Jesus died on the cross for you, and you're sitting there crying because Mike tripped you and called you a fucking dyke?  Get over it, already."

No, what I really want to hear is "I care about you, and I want you to have a good life.  How can I help?"

And at the heart of it all, that's more precious than second-hand love from a god.

I do care about you and want you to have a good life. I really do. I want that for every person on this planet.  I know it's only me I just wanted you to know.

You know I'm beginning to think it will take God to fix this mess, nobody here is willing to help. You're too busy fighting against belief instead of the real culprits of our pain and suffering.  Christians are too busy spreading the news and are too afraid to step out from behind religion.  Fighting each other instead of fighting greed.  You know I'll have to say that becoming less materialistic is the most difficult of my own endeavors, but I can do it, but just me won't help our nation or the world, it is going to take people coming together in massive numbers to make a difference. I don't see that happening anytime soon and my time here confirms it.

That's exactly where I come from. I don't accept second hand reports either.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #758 on: April 30, 2013, 06:25:46 AM »
You have only described bad religion.  This post is about belief w/o all that religion and so far you have all failed.

Believing in God is not a bad thing or a stupid thing to do!!!  Following religions that disgrace God is a bad thing!!!

Perhaps then you need to explain the point at which "belief" becomes "religion".

The belief "there is god" could perhaps not be termed a "religion".  Once you start ascribing motivations and desires to that god, though, does it not become a religion?

Can you give your definitions please of "belief" and "religion", so that we can see where you believe the distinction is?

My definition: Religions are rules designed by men to control society, belief is a natural response to our environment that gets taken advantage of by religions.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #759 on: April 30, 2013, 06:49:19 AM »
Junebug, I for one have never doubted that greed is a longstanding problem for humanity.  Attempts to deal with it are also not unique to Christianity, either.  For instance, in classical Buddhist thought, greed is one of the "three poisons" (the other two being anger and stupidity).

Simply put, religion/spirituality/belief is no remedy against greed.  It may serve to encourage and motivate people dealing with adversity, on a person-by-person basis, but praying for the world to become less greedy {less angry, less stupid} simply does not work.  Prayer functions at an individual and psychological level, not at a global or empirical one, and only when you can manifest the desired characteristics in your own community do you stand a chance of influencing other people.

Instead of praying for less greed, model generosity and simplify your lifestyle.  Declutter.  Give to local charities.  Buy second-hand clothing.  Try to repair a broken appliance rather than tossing it out and rushing out to buy a new one.

Instead of praying for less anger, model an even temper that seeks out win-win solutions to problems.

Instead of praying for less stupidity, act thoughtfully and strive to educate yourself and others.

No gods are required to do this, and IMNSHO this method is vastly more likely to succeed.

I do all those things, all of them. It's not my greed destroying this country, creating poverty, or manipulating beliefs. The greed I'm talking about is the cesspool we call Government and billion $ corps. People that have a 1000 times more than they need by taking advantage of others. Charging too much for the basic needs of society, food, shelter, and fuel. Look how much groceries have went up since gas prices went up. What do we do about that greed. Minimum wage should be $20 @ hr, it's $7.50, and requires families to draw welfare. Do you know how much tax money is spent on just walmarts minimum wage employees on welfare every year? It's a staggering amount!!!

Greed controls the public school systems, they don't want people educated, it's more profitable to sell to and manipulate uneducated consumers. Just look at the difference in funding for schools in different class neighborhoods; all the attacks on the public school systems over the past 10 years.

Has anybody viewed any of the docs. that I suggested? They are not religious.

They set me on fire!!!
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #760 on: April 30, 2013, 06:50:17 AM »


My definition: Religions are rules designed by men to control society, belief is a natural response to our environment that gets taken advantage of by religions.
all your belief is designed to do is disregard other people's beliefs. Fred Phelps has a belief too... you need to be able to demonstrate why your belief is true and his is false.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #761 on: April 30, 2013, 07:04:08 AM »
My definition: Religions are rules designed by men to control society, belief is a natural response to our environment that gets taken advantage of by religions.

Sorry, but that doesn't make clear how you tell the difference between the two.

If person A says "I believe X" and person B says "I believe Y", how do you tell which one is truthfully expressing their natural response to their environment, and which one is twisting their beliefs to try to control society?

For example: how can I be sure that when you say "we must eliminate greed" you are not taking advantage of my natural tendency towards sharing by coming up with a rule with the intention of controlling me?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #762 on: April 30, 2013, 07:11:11 AM »

Answer the questions posed of you.
Present evidence, and not opinion.

Very simple, you'd think - but apparently not.

Presenting opinion - telling us your stories - is mildly interesting in a "chatting in the bus queue" kind of way, but its useless if you wish any of us to change our opinions.  Saying "well, I believe...." a thousand times does not make the statement more convincing.

Anfauglir likes lemon squash.
Anfauglir does not like lemon squash.

Which is true, Junebug?  How would you go about determining which one is true?

I don't believe you DO understand my "need for evidence".  I'm not desperately seeking evidence of your little god, Junebug, any more than I am seeking evidence for John's Magic Socks.  What I am interested in is whether the latest in the line of woo-talkers that has arrived on the site has anything to back up what they are saying, or if it is the latest in a long string of unsubstantiated pap.

The question:
Anfauglir likes lemon squash.
Anfauglir does not like lemon squash.

Which is true, Junebug?  How would you go about determining which one is true?
Is extremely important.  And, as is usual for you, you have dodged answering it.  If you respond to anything in this post Junebug, please respond to this - How would you go about determining which one is true?

Seriously.  What would you do?  How would you start?  Because I've seen a lot of you being able to post links and stories about things that fit what you already believe, but NOTHING to show that you are able to critically look at a claim and decide whether it is or is not true.  Your Junebug process seems to be "does this fit with what I believe, yes or no?", and the answer to that question is the ONLY thing that you consider when examining a claim.

Once more for emphasis - How would you go about determining which one is true?

I would go to the grocery store buy a bunch of lemon squash and start cooking. Take notes observe you eating the various kinds of lemon squash recipes. That should help us figure out whether you like it or not.

This is called the Discussion zone, not evidence zone. We are having a discussion about belief.  I accept you the way you are, but you can not accept me as I am.  I could have all the evidence in the world it would not make a difference here you would just say it's not evidence, and forgive me, I do not trust your judgement in the matter.  That's like telling a defendant they get to chose what is evidence and what is not, I'm sure they will rule in favor of their own cause.  So get a neutral party that can be trusted to critically judge validity of evidence before you come at me with it again.  You can not have that much control unless you are willing to allow me the same or you have a very unfair advantage over me.
My definition: Religions are rules designed by men to control society, belief is a natural response to our environment that gets taken advantage of by religions.

Sorry, but that doesn't make clear how you tell the difference between the two.

If person A says "I believe X" and person B says "I believe Y", how do you tell which one is truthfully expressing their natural response to their environment, and which one is twisting their beliefs to try to control society?

For example: how can I be sure that when you say "we must eliminate greed" you are not taking advantage of my natural tendency towards sharing by coming up with a rule with the intention of controlling me?

Yes it does I would like an unbiased opinion. Yours is most definitely not.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #763 on: April 30, 2013, 07:11:36 AM »
Still waiting for a response to this, first of all:

No not poor. Grew up that way, so I know what it's like, but I am not poor.

I see.  How did that happen, Junebug?  Why were you not content to be poor?

People that have a 1000 times more than they need by taking advantage of others. Charging too much for the basic needs of society, food, shelter, and fuel. Look how much groceries have went up since gas prices went up. What do we do about that greed. Minimum wage should be $20 @ hr, it's $7.50, and requires families to draw welfare.

Is every single person's "needs" the same?

You say "1000 times more than they need" is bad - so what is good?  Is it 10 times?  3 times?  Do you have one single cent more than you NEED, Junebug?  Do you have a TV?  Carpets?  A computer?  Do you drink anything other than tap water?

Or do you - perhaps - have a little more than you actually NEED?  If so, why?  Why are you not content with the very basics - food, shelter, fuel?  I know you don't have any greed, so you don't have the desire for anything more than the very basics, so what's YOUR justification for having any of those things?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #764 on: April 30, 2013, 07:13:57 AM »
My definition: Religions are rules designed by men to control society, belief is a natural response to our environment that gets taken advantage of by religions.

Sorry, but that doesn't make clear how you tell the difference between the two.

If person A says "I believe X" and person B says "I believe Y", how do you tell which one is truthfully expressing their natural response to their environment, and which one is twisting their beliefs to try to control society?

For example: how can I be sure that when you say "we must eliminate greed" you are not taking advantage of my natural tendency towards sharing by coming up with a rule with the intention of controlling me?

Yes it does I would like an unbiased opinion. Yours is most definitely not.

How can I be sure that when you say "we must eliminate greed" you are not taking advantage of my natural tendency towards sharing by coming up with a rule with the intention of controlling me?

What test do I use to determine if YOU are speaking your unadulterated belief, or creating a religion to try to control me?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #765 on: April 30, 2013, 07:24:43 AM »
I am not poor. If I were I would say yes, it puts me at higher risk.

Thank you - in all seriousness - for the part in bold.  Direct answer to a direct question, great stuff!

No not poor. Grew up that way, so I know what it's like, but I am not poor.

I see.  How did that happen, Junebug?  Why were you not content to be poor?

I had to provide for my son. Don't get me wrong I'm not rich either. I could never be rich as long as there is poverty because I would give it away. I would keep what I need and give the rest away to help society defeat poverty. I would build homes, schools and jobs, to earn more money to help more people. That"s what I would do with money.
My definition: Religions are rules designed by men to control society, belief is a natural response to our environment that gets taken advantage of by religions.

Sorry, but that doesn't make clear how you tell the difference between the two.

If person A says "I believe X" and person B says "I believe Y", how do you tell which one is truthfully expressing their natural response to their environment, and which one is twisting their beliefs to try to control society?

For example: how can I be sure that when you say "we must eliminate greed" you are not taking advantage of my natural tendency towards sharing by coming up with a rule with the intention of controlling me?

Yes it does I would like an unbiased opinion. Yours is most definitely not.

How can I be sure that when you say "we must eliminate greed" you are not taking advantage of my natural tendency towards sharing by coming up with a rule with the intention of controlling me?

What test do I use to determine if YOU are speaking your unadulterated belief, or creating a religion to try to control me?

Well nobody's threatening you to do what that say or suffer eternal damnation.  I have said several times here you don't believe, ok.

Got to run my son to work. Be back in a few.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #766 on: April 30, 2013, 07:25:56 AM »
Anfauglir likes lemon squash.
Anfauglir does not like lemon squash.

Which is true, Junebug?  How would you go about determining which one is true?

Once more for emphasis - How would you go about determining which one is true?

I would go to the grocery store buy a bunch of lemon squash and start cooking. Take notes observe you eating the various kinds of lemon squash recipes. That should help us figure out whether you like it or not. [/quote]

Excellent!  So you DO understand how one can test to see if a claim is true or not.  Does that mean that all the claims you made can similarly be tested?

This is called the Discussion zone, not evidence zone.

Very well.  I will stop requesting evidence for your beliefs in this thread.  And I assume that in the "debate about EVIDENCE" thread, you will actively engage to critically examine the EVIDENCE.  Fair's fair Junebug - if you don't want to talk evidence here 'cos its not appropriate, I expect you to do so in the evidence thread.

I could have all the evidence in the world it would not make a difference here you would just say it's not evidence, and forgive me, I do not trust your judgement in the matter.  That's like telling a defendant they get to chose what is evidence and what is not, I'm sure they will rule in favor of their own cause.  So get a neutral party that can be trusted to critically judge validity of evidence before you come at me with it again.  You can not have that much control unless you are willing to allow me the same or you have a very unfair advantage over me.

Please stop with this baseless victimhood.  As I've said several times in the debate thread - YOU can decide what the criteria is for evidence.  I'm getting rather fed up of you telling me I'm doing something I've clearly not done.

I'll say it one more time.

Junebug.  YOU can choose what type of statements are acceptable as evidence of a claim in our debate.

But you have to allow me to apply that same criteria to any other claim that might be made - unless you are requesting that YOUR claims should somehow be treated differently from anyone else's?  See your last statement in red?  That is exactly what YOU are refusing to do - to apply the same standards of evidence to ALL claims being made.  So please stop pretending to be a martyr - its YOU that is trying to twist and get special exmptions for your own claims.

We are having a discussion about belief.  I accept you the way you are, but you can not accept me as I am. 

I don't give a toss what you are like, frankly.  We'll never meet, so I have no issue.  I accept you have your beliefs - jolly good!  You have a belief in god, a belief in greed, super stuff!

So....I expect you will now STOP trying to present evidence for your belief that "greed is bad, m'kay?".  Why do you keep banging on about it and trying to present all this evidence, Junebug?  Can't you accept me as I am?  Why do you keep trying to challenge MY beliefs?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #767 on: April 30, 2013, 07:29:51 AM »
I am not poor. If I were I would say yes, it puts me at higher risk.

Thank you - in all seriousness - for the part in bold.  Direct answer to a direct question, great stuff!

No not poor. Grew up that way, so I know what it's like, but I am not poor.

I see.  How did that happen, Junebug?  Why were you not content to be poor?

I had to provide for my son. Don't get me wrong I'm not rich either. I could never be rich as long as there is poverty because I would give it away. I would keep what I need and give the rest away to help society defeat poverty. I would build homes, schools and jobs, to earn more money to help more people. That"s what I would

Dodge, dodge, dodge.  Here's the questions again.

You say "1000 times more than they need" is bad - so what is good?  Is it 10 times?  3 times?  Do you have one single cent more than you NEED, Junebug?  Do you have a TV?  Carpets?  A computer?  Do you drink anything other than tap water?

Or do you - perhaps - have a little more than you actually NEED?  If so, why?  Why are you not content with the very basics - food, shelter, fuel?  I know you don't have any greed, so you don't have the desire for anything more than the very basics, so what's YOUR justification for having any of those things?

Got to run my son to work. Be back in a few.

You can afford to run a car, then?  THAT's not a "need", is it?  If you're back in "a few" minutes, we're only talking a couple miles - surely he could walk?  Keep him fitter.....why does he demand the luxurious "want" of a car?  How greedy ARE the two of you?

Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #768 on: April 30, 2013, 08:05:10 AM »
junebug, greed, fear, and other 'negative' impulses are survival traits.  They exist because of evolution - an organism that doesn't have at least some greed may not get enough to eat, an organism that does not feel fear will probably be eaten by a predator that it wasn't afraid enough of to watch for.  They're both things that any successful organism has to have in order to guarantee its survival.

Furthermore, it's impulses like these that led to beliefs in gods to begin with, since a belief doesn't occur for no reason.  Because of fear, people attributed strange, unexplainable, fearful events to super-powerful beings that they imagined causing them (whether monsters, demons, devils, or gods).  Because of greed, people sought to get the favor of these beings, or at least avoid the disfavor of them.  If it worked, it was 'proof' that they had succeeded, and they would keep repeating it; if it failed, it was 'proof' that they needed to do more than that.  And once they have the belief in something, they cling to it like someone adrift in the middle of the ocean would cling to a life preserver or even a piece of driftwood.

Belief comes from impulses, junebug, even today.  That's how you explain the difference between 'good' beliefs and 'bad' beliefs.  A greedy person will believe in a god who will help them fulfill their greed; a fearful person will believe in a god who will assuage their fear; a lonely person will believe in a god who is all about love; a hungry person will believe in a god who will help fulfill their needs.  But they all come from the same source, impulses that want to be fulfilled.

Greed is not having what you need it's having way more to the extinct that others have none.  You do not need way more than you need to survive. 

Fear can be beneficial but not in the case of how we humans feel about dying.  That's the fear I'm talking about that helps bad religions spread their hatred.

I believe in God because I don't believe in luck. That's the only reason I believe in God. I may define God as loving and caring because I'm loving and caring but that's not "why" I believe.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #769 on: April 30, 2013, 08:07:19 AM »
I'm sorry[1] but Junebug you have to be one of the most ignorant people...ever. I mean, are you parroting this nonsense or is these your own thoughts? Because I may have not finished high school[2] but damn if you're not the stupidest person I've come across in a long time.

It's not mean if it's true, and it seems to be.

-Nam
 1. not really
 2. this means i'm smarter than you even with my lack of education
Nam, that's a little strong... You may agree that it could have been phrased better.

GB Mod


Why pick on nam he's just following you mod's and ponytail's examples.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Petey

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #770 on: April 30, 2013, 08:14:11 AM »
Why pick on nam he's just following you mod's and ponytail's examples.

Looks like jb wants to see what the inside of the ER looks like.  How quaint.
He never pays attention, he always knows the answer, and he can never tell you how he knows. We can't keep thrashing him. He is a bad example to the other pupils. There's no educating a smart boy.
-– Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #771 on: April 30, 2013, 08:27:13 AM »
Junebug, a lot of mental illness is caused by an imbalance in people's brain chemicals. An imbalance, btw that your god put there or at least allowed to happen. And it takes human beings using our own human resources to treat, cure or help people with these problems. Not magic or prayer or god.
 
(I am sure you will work greed in here somehow, but at least I tried.)

How do you know that's not caused by the pollution greed dumps on communities everyday. What is it they call them, "cancer alley?"  They have already proved  pollution a direct cause of cancer and pollution is a result of greed.  Goodness gracious do you know how they treat our foods, ever heard of factory farms? Please watch at least two of the Documentaries.  I would suggest American Greed and Factory Farms for you. Both are found at either FSTV or Link.

I give you lots of credit for trying. It is "too" difficult to find human suffering w/o greed's presence.

I completely agree. So do you want to fight together or what?Let's just put beliefs to the side and work together.

 
Why pick on nam he's just following you mod's and ponytail's examples.

Looks like jb wants to see what the inside of the ER looks like.  How quaint.
Why would you say that? Am I in danger?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #772 on: April 30, 2013, 08:42:14 AM »
Looks like jb wants to see what the inside of the ER looks like.  How quaint.
Why would you say that? Am I in danger?

You are in no danger at all.  The Emergency Room is an area in the forum where we try to rehabilitate bad members.  They may go there for a variety of offenses.  Some people have been put there to learn how to quote properly, some have been sent there for being vicious thugs.  It is often the last attempt to get a member on track before banning them. 

edit:
link to the ER

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,46.0.html
Links:
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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #773 on: April 30, 2013, 08:57:16 AM »
Quote from: Junebug
Seppuku,

I don't know that I totally agree with you here. Mental disease is a consequence of greed. Thousands of years of poverty stricken towns, states, countries I believe has a lot to do with mental illness. I bet if we go right now and check the stats 75% of mental illness is among the poor. The wealthy suffers mental illness because they can never satisfy their greed. They make enemies rather than friends.

I haven't got the time to address everything. I'm not going to bet the same thing. Mental illness can come from a huge array of sources. Yes, being poor could lead to mental illness, perhaps depression - it's certainly something I felt when I was unemployed, but it depends really. I used to study psychology, whilst I am not professionally affiliated with psychology, it was the main science the interested me and led me to study it, it's why I have psychology textbooks on my bookshelf. Given the time, I could pick off the many causes to mental illness and the studies surrounding them.

Of those who I've known with mental illnesses only one has been poor, my uncle, but that's because of his mental state. You don't see him getting a high paid job, he also fought a drug addiction, which probably didn't help anything. Other people? I've known some people with depression, brain damage (like my cousin), autism, aspergers and schizophrenia, all from comfortable backgrounds. Of course, this is all anecdotal, but you would be surprised how easily somebody with a comfortable income could develop mental issues.

Things like trauma and repression can have big impacts on mental health. Stress can be a varying factor too. So can events in your childhood. It's a simple example, but my fear of spiders was a direct result of some bullying when I was a little kid. If I was in Australia my fear might be more understandable, but this is the UK, a country where a buttered scone is considered more dangerous.

No it doesn't surprise me, they had greedy parents. Ones that I'm sure paid more attention to their money than was spent being a father or mother.  Too much pressure to be just as greedy?  Never feeling good enough for mom and dad. These parental abuses do cause mental disease among the wealthy.  As far as autism and other brain defects I say how do we really know it's escalation is not a direct consequence of pollution?

How about a patient suffering brain damage from a car accident, cars would be safer if it wasn't for greed. For one they could be manufactured with more safety features but they're not profitable, also greedy drivers are bad drivers and cause more traffic accidents.

I really don't care if I prove greed responsible for every mental health case that exists, but it's involvement on such a very large scale is disturbing to me. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #774 on: April 30, 2013, 09:02:06 AM »
Looks like jb wants to see what the inside of the ER looks like.  How quaint.
Why would you say that? Am I in danger?

You are in no danger at all.  The Emergency Room is an area in the forum where we try to rehabilitate bad members.  They may go there for a variety of offenses.  Some people have been put there to learn how to quote properly, some have been sent there for being vicious thugs.  It is often the last attempt to get a member on track before banning them. 

edit:
link to the ER

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,46.0.html

Thanks for easing my mind. I was really worried there for a minute. I kind of figured there was a nice little logical explanation. 
Hope your having a GREAT DAY. Take care. Oh by the way I loved loved loved the juney buggy wuggy thing soooo cute. ;D
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #775 on: April 30, 2013, 09:08:38 AM »
I thought Nam was being harsh, but then I read:

Quote
Mental disease is a consequence of greed.

Now I am conflicted.

It's a fact jack!!!Not in all cases but in way too many.  You should do some fact checking before you go throwing that arrogance around again.
 
It was inappropriate for nam and even more so for you "a so called leader."  You're no better than Jerry Falwell, Jim Baker, or Westboro Baptist's leader.  These people deserve better than you!!!
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #776 on: April 30, 2013, 09:11:37 AM »
You should do some fact checking before you go throwing that arrogance around again.

Yeah.  Its a terrible thing when people throw around assertions without any facts to back them up.  I hate people like that, don't you Junebug?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #777 on: April 30, 2013, 09:16:01 AM »
Ok then Jag tell me WHY are we here?

I don't see how that is relevant - it's a philosophical question, and I'm quite confident that you will not be satisfied with my response.

However, as far as I've been able to see in this thread, you still haven't addressed my last question to you from post 515, repeated in post 554. If you have done so, please direct me to the post in which you did.
Quote
Because I've spent 30 years on this journey and I have thoughts on the subject worth discussing. You don't have to go along to respect others thoughts.
There's a big difference between respect and knowledge. And you aren't engaging in a discussion, you are simply denying every single thing we have shown you to demonstrate that your blanket assertion that belief in god is not  bad thing is wrong. Once you changed your focus to greed as the root problem, we've also demonstrated why that belief is wrong as well. Yet you persist in your baseless insistence that you are correct.

Quote
I'm not talking about the extremists either. I'm talking about someone like myself, that does good, that does not harm their society but Loves it. Perhaps together we can help eliminate the world of it's bad religions!
I don't give a hoot about religion, I give a hoot about behavior, about action, about positive end results. I don't give a hoot if people want to pray, as long as once done, the person praying gets off their knees and takes action as well. If prayer is not followed by action, it's worse than useless. All the warm fuzzies in the world don't amount to progress, that requires action. Action is only going to come from us - and belief in god often gets in the way. Deny it all you want to, you've been shown that you are wrong.

Look, not everyone is born to be an advocate. Not everyone needs to be one either. But it's certainly helpful if everyone is at least seeing the problems clearly, and you've been given ample evidence that this is not the case. You can ignore it if you choose, but don't expect to be given a pass because your beliefs make you feel better. God is no more effective than a milk jug, and perhaps less so - at least a milk jug has the practical use of holding milk, which is more than can be said of god.

If I missed a question I did not mean to, especially not yours. You are one of the people here that I really want to address. I am going right now to read those posts and answer your questions. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Morgan

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #778 on: April 30, 2013, 09:19:01 AM »
If I missed a question I did not mean to [...] I am going right now to read those posts and answer your questions.

Please do answer my posts.

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #779 on: April 30, 2013, 09:23:09 AM »
You should do some fact checking before you go throwing that arrogance around again.

Yeah.  Its a terrible thing when people throw around assertions without any facts to back them up.  I hate people like that, don't you Junebug?


This.
God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #780 on: April 30, 2013, 09:26:24 AM »
To jag,

Your question in that post was how do you know the difference. I have answered this question but not directly to you and I should have.  Perhaps it was due to the defensive mode my brain was in that day.

Good beliefs will nurture society, bad beliefs will not.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #781 on: April 30, 2013, 09:30:35 AM »
You should do some fact checking before you go throwing that arrogance around again.

Yeah.  Its a terrible thing when people throw around assertions without any facts to back them up.  I hate people like that, don't you Junebug?


This.

I don't hate people. Again for the umpteenth time I have given you the source of my education to back up what I have said. So where do you get this stuff? If pony had checked out facts, very common ones I might add, it would have saved a confrontation, but that's all pony knows, is confrontation.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #782 on: April 30, 2013, 09:40:19 AM »
If I missed a question I did not mean to [...] I am going right now to read those posts and answer your questions.

Please do answer my posts.

What posts are you talking about? I'll be happy to, but I'm not going back through all theses pages.

Hey mods can I ask responders to highlight questions in purple and glow so they stand out more clearly?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99