Author Topic: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing  (Read 42101 times)

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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #725 on: April 29, 2013, 03:57:15 PM »
I thought Nam was being harsh, but then I read:

Quote
Mental disease is a consequence of greed.

Now I am conflicted.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #726 on: April 29, 2013, 04:01:49 PM »
I said I was sorry, though I didn't mean it. Did you read what she wrote? It had to be said and I'm the guy to say it.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline magicmiles

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #727 on: April 29, 2013, 04:08:33 PM »

Excuse the language, but holy fucking christ. Do you honestly think people suffer from mental illness due to greed? Not, say, social or economical factors, genetic predisposition, events deeply affecting the individual on a psychological level such as war? This, combined with you flipping out at the mention of psychological disorders is a huge red flag.

But hey, I'm probably talking shit.

You're not talking shit, but I wonder if you gave JB's post that you take the quote from proper consideration? Because the things you point to as factors in mental illness are some of the same things JB points to as factors in mental illness. It's just that JB sees greed as being one of the root causes in those factors being present.

You may disagree with that, but I don't think her opinion quite warranted that reaction.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #728 on: April 29, 2013, 04:14:01 PM »
Nam quotes

You treat me with respect, I will show you the same. You treat me like shit, I will throw the entire pile on you.

Maybe that's something you should do not just display here on your profile. I have treated you respectfully on the other hand you have not, so according to your standards I should throw an entire pile of shit on you.

I think I'll stick to my God beliefs and do what's best for society here and turn the other cheek. Would you like to strike the other one?

No you haven't. You haven't really treated anyone here respectively. All my comments about you are true. That makes you disrespectful.

I can make a list of how disrespectful you've been, if you'd like?

People don't get as much negative karma as you have in such a short period of time by being "respectful" as you seem to think you are.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Seppuku

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #729 on: April 29, 2013, 04:26:39 PM »
Quote from: Junebug
Seppuku,

I don't know that I totally agree with you here. Mental disease is a consequence of greed. Thousands of years of poverty stricken towns, states, countries I believe has a lot to do with mental illness. I bet if we go right now and check the stats 75% of mental illness is among the poor. The wealthy suffers mental illness because they can never satisfy their greed. They make enemies rather than friends.

I haven't got the time to address everything. I'm not going to bet the same thing. Mental illness can come from a huge array of sources. Yes, being poor could lead to mental illness, perhaps depression - it's certainly something I felt when I was unemployed, but it depends really. I used to study psychology, whilst I am not professionally affiliated with psychology, it was the main science the interested me and led me to study it, it's why I have psychology textbooks on my bookshelf. Given the time, I could pick off the many causes to mental illness and the studies surrounding them.

Of those who I've known with mental illnesses only one has been poor, my uncle, but that's because of his mental state. You don't see him getting a high paid job, he also fought a drug addiction, which probably didn't help anything. Other people? I've known some people with depression, brain damage (like my cousin), autism, aspergers and schizophrenia, all from comfortable backgrounds. Of course, this is all anecdotal, but you would be surprised how easily somebody with a comfortable income could develop mental issues.

Things like trauma and repression can have big impacts on mental health. Stress can be a varying factor too. So can events in your childhood. It's a simple example, but my fear of spiders was a direct result of some bullying when I was a little kid. If I was in Australia my fear might be more understandable, but this is the UK, a country where a buttered scone is considered more dangerous.
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #730 on: April 29, 2013, 04:27:22 PM »
People don't get as much negative karma as you have in such a short period of time by being "respectful" as you seem to think you are.
Seems to me, Nam, that most of her negative karma was not due to her disrespecting members, but due to other things.  She got some of it for dodging questions, some of it for 'lying' (which looks more to me like a badly mistaken belief than an actual lie), some of it for being 'stupid' or 'dumb' (which is most likely simple immaturity), and some for other reasons, but I never really saw anyone complaining that she was being disrespectful.  It also seems to me that if she was actively being disrespectful towards other members, she would have at least been put under Watched status, if not outright being Moderated, because that sort of thing is probably against the forum rules.

Is that what you mean by being disrespectful, or is it something else?

Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #731 on: April 29, 2013, 04:36:37 PM »
How's that her not being disrespectful? Please explain. There are many ways to disrespect people; two ways:

Junebug doing everything you listed (and I can think of more...)

And two, all the quips, lists, responses I've given her.

See, y'all are trying to reason with her but she doesn't care: she's her to save our souls. That, in of itself is disrespectful solely on this being a Discussion forum. She doesn't want to discuss she wants to preach.

I mean, look at her responses in the "debate" she's not really participating in.


-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #732 on: April 29, 2013, 04:38:16 PM »
I said I was sorry, though I didn't mean it. Did you read what she wrote? It had to be said and I'm the guy to say it.
I read what she wrote.  It seemed to me to be the same kind of mare's nest of convoluted rationalizations that most believers have to engage in to hold onto their beliefs.  That is not the same thing as being ignorant or stupid, as you suggested it was.  I submit that perhaps your opinion does not represent what most other posters think about junebug, and therefore it did not have to be said.  Rather, you wanted to say it because you were getting fed up with listening to her (because you think of her as stupid) and thus felt that being outright insulting would convince her to go away.

Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #733 on: April 29, 2013, 04:39:49 PM »
I'm an asshole, deal with it.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #734 on: April 29, 2013, 04:40:14 PM »
How's that her not being disrespectful? Please explain. There are many ways to disrespect people; two ways:

Junebug doing everything you listed (and I can think of more...)

And two, all the quips, lists, responses I've given her.

See, y'all are trying to reason with her but she doesn't care: she's her to save our souls. That, in of itself is disrespectful solely on this being a Discussion forum. She doesn't want to discuss she wants to preach.

I mean, look at her responses in the "debate" she's not really participating in.
Just because you took it as being disrespectful does not mean that she was trying to be disrespectful.  There is a difference.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #735 on: April 29, 2013, 04:42:21 PM »
I'm an asshole, deal with it.
Maybe you should invest in toilet paper, then.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #736 on: April 29, 2013, 05:02:04 PM »
If I did find such an article, it wouldn't prove atheism is bad any more than the linked article proves Christianity is bad. It would be just as much an anomaly.

The point I made is that belief in God can, and does sometimes make people make choices that can lead to the death of others specifically because they hold that belief.    If you found an article that said 'atheist parents face charges after withholding medical treatment due to their non-religious convictions' then you could make the argument that atheism can, at times, lead to making choices that cause the deaths of others.

I'll concede that distinction for the time being.


If you asked the people who made the decision to withhold medical treatment, do you think they'd say their religious practice is 'an anomaly'? 

It wouldn't matter if they thought so or not. It would be very easy (if someone took the time) to establish that it is an anomaly.


It would be interesting to have reliable statistics. We could look at the ratio of believers who don't seek medical help to those that do.
What purpose would that serve? 

It would serve as a reminder that most Christians are sensible.



And lets be honest here MM.  Anyone who says that they believe in God, yet takes their kids to the doctor, looks both ways before they cross the street, and doesn't go 150 mph on the highway regularly does all of those things because they know, deep down inside, that God isn't real. 

I disagree. Not sure what I can really add.



Just give me one thing, MM.  Name one good thing that God belief does for the world and then explain why that one good thing REQUIRES God belief and can't be accomplished as an atheist.   If you need a year or 2 to think of one thing, take your time. 

Of course any of the good deeds performed by Christians can be performed by atheists. Many good deeds are performed by atheists. However, in my own experience, faith based organisations are the driving force behind much more good and chartable actions than non-religious organisations.


 
All the things atheists can do that are good for the world = All the things Christians can do that are good for the world.  There is no difference. 

No difference in the potential.


All the things atheists do that are bad for the world < All the things Christians do that are bad for the world.  There is a major difference. 

Only if you make the distinction that the bad things done by atheists have to be done specifically because of the atheism. I'm giving that some more thought.

Go on up you baldhead.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #737 on: April 29, 2013, 05:10:49 PM »
I'm an asshole, deal with it.

I think what you meant to say was, "I'm an asshole, but I'll do my best to rein it in from now on."  Right?  RIGHT?
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Offline Morgan

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #738 on: April 29, 2013, 05:24:10 PM »
You're not talking shit, but I wonder if you gave JB's post that you take the quote from proper consideration? Because the things you point to as factors in mental illness are some of the same things JB points to as factors in mental illness. It's just that JB sees greed as being one of the root causes in those factors being present.

You may disagree with that, but I don't think her opinion quite warranted that reaction.
Are we talking about the same post? The one I quoted only referred to one's financial situation. Greed doesn't directly cause mental issues, having a shitty unfulfilled live can. This can happen regardless of how much money you have, a man struggling to feed himself and someone who has all the money in the world but lacks intellectual and emotional fulfillment are both at risk of depression.

While greed can be the driving factor between the aforementioned inequality, it is unreasonable to expect the human race to forsake a psychological aspect which has proved vital to our survival. What we can do, however, is work towards creating a society where there are safety nets, healthcare services that are both physical and psychological and generally encouraging people to not be assholes. No deity needed. I've already outlined in my first post in this thread how religion and belief are harmful for society.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #739 on: April 29, 2013, 05:30:37 PM »
My main concern was that JB's statement was at risk of being taken out of context when it was quoted on its own, such that it could be construed to suggest that mentally ill people are greedy and that's why they are mentally ill. Which I am sure JB does not believe.

Thankyou for clarifying your point.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #740 on: April 29, 2013, 06:00:29 PM »
My main concern was that JB's statement was at risk of being taken out of context when it was quoted on its own, such that it could be construed to suggest that mentally ill people are greedy and that's why they are mentally ill. Which I am sure JB does not believe.

Thankyou for clarifying your point.

If someone says "X causes Y to people", doesn't it imply that X is the cause of Y?

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #741 on: April 29, 2013, 06:13:21 PM »
Sure. But it doesn't have to imply that the person's specific Y was caused by their own particular X. The X might have been way in the background, leading slowly but surely ( and probably amongst other things ) to Y.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #742 on: April 29, 2013, 06:34:43 PM »
Sure. But it doesn't have to imply that the person's specific Y was caused by their own particular X. The X might have been way in the background, leading slowly but surely ( and probably amongst other things ) to Y.

Shove it back enough and it becomes "almost, sort of, possibly, somehow, only a little there", then it stops being in the background and starts trending towards being nonexistent. Honestly, when discussing the origins of mental illness it could be argued it's a factor. But it's such a small insignificant one, it can be safely overlooked in most situations.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #743 on: April 29, 2013, 06:58:21 PM »
I'm sorry[1] ...

It's not mean if it's true, and it seems to be.
 1. not really

Actually, it's still pretty mean.  And unproductive.  Example to demonstrate:  I've got a friend on another forum (an atheist among theists) whose child died last year.  This year, some dickface brought it up again and pointed it out just to cause him pain.  It was true.  It was also mean.  So your claim that "it's not mean if it's true" is false.

And, if everyone's already thinking it, as you claim, then nobody needs to point it out.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #744 on: April 29, 2013, 07:09:30 PM »
I'm an asshole. Not an insensitive prick.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #745 on: April 29, 2013, 07:13:31 PM »
How's that her not being disrespectful? Please explain. There are many ways to disrespect people; two ways:

Junebug doing everything you listed (and I can think of more...)

And two, all the quips, lists, responses I've given her.

See, y'all are trying to reason with her but she doesn't care: she's her to save our souls. That, in of itself is disrespectful solely on this being a Discussion forum. She doesn't want to discuss she wants to preach.

I mean, look at her responses in the "debate" she's not really participating in.
Just because you took it as being disrespectful does not mean that she was trying to be disrespectful.  There is a difference.

Idiots say shit like this. Don't make me think you're an idiot.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online Azdgari

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #746 on: April 29, 2013, 07:26:43 PM »
I'm an asshole. Not an insensitive prick.

This has no bearing whatsoever on the truth or falsity of either of our claims.[1]
 1. Nor am I convinced that what you just wrote is true in any case.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 07:40:00 PM by Azdgari »
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #747 on: April 29, 2013, 07:38:09 PM »
To throw another log on the fire, can we also make it a point to also draw a distinction between situational "mental illness" and clinical or biological mental illness.

Morgan stated: Greed doesn't directly cause mental issues, having a shitty unfulfilled live can. This can happen regardless of how much money you have, a man struggling to feed himself and someone who has all the money in the world but lacks intellectual and emotional fulfillment are both at risk of depression.

I absolutely agree. However in both cases, the person would be experiencing situational depression, brought on by specific life circumstances. This is an entirely different animal than clinical depression, brought on by a chemical imbalance in the brain chemistry. Either of the above cases could include the additional burden of clinical depression - essentially, take a challenging situation and make it doubly so - but are not themselves a good representation of the mental illness identified as depression.

That being said, it is a chemical imbalance, and in many cases, can be managed by both natural means (diet and exercise do make a difference for almost everyone) and medical ones, if the person can find the correct pharmaceutical and dosage, and mange the side effects. It's frequently misdiagnosed, it's often misunderstood, and it's much more serious than most people realize.

And like all mental health issues, a person's financial circumstances at the onset have no bearing whatsoever on the likelihood of the illness. Wealth is not a protective blanket. It might make the illness easier to manage, but it certainly won't protect you from being betrayed by your own brain chemistry.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #748 on: April 29, 2013, 07:53:41 PM »
I'm going to start a new thread specifically on mental illness. It's an important issue. Going to put it in science.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #749 on: April 29, 2013, 08:46:25 PM »
Nor am I convinced that what you just wrote is true in any case.

Think what you want.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #750 on: April 29, 2013, 10:12:23 PM »
Idiots say shit like this. Don't make me think you're an idiot.
Do you honestly think I care what a self-proclaimed asshole thinks of me?

By the way, trying to intimidate me by threatening to call me an idiot is just going to backfire on you.

Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #751 on: April 30, 2013, 12:37:44 AM »
I'm not threatening you. If you believe that's a threat then you are an idiot. One can't excuse what people say they can only hope to correct what they say, if wrong, and hope they learn from it.

You gave ladybug an excuse, which is idiotic. Because she can then use said excuse in the future. If she came up with it on her own then I think most would see her as trying to make excuses for her statements, and think her an idiot, in my opinion.

But you did it for her based solely, on what? The stupidity she has already voiced? That, then, would make you the idiot.

I don't threaten people. I say what's on my mind without apology.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #752 on: April 30, 2013, 02:18:17 AM »
It is extremely unlikely one will convince or convert another by resorting to insults.
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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #753 on: April 30, 2013, 02:48:33 AM »
Quite.  That is why they stop.  Now.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?