Author Topic: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing  (Read 38791 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #667 on: April 28, 2013, 07:07:10 AM »
No that's not what I said. Is that really all you people got here is twisting words. You really believe God wrote the Bible? I sure don't!!!

In all fairness, juney-buggy-wuggy, you are a bit inconsistent when it comes to the bible.  If my memory is correct, you quote some verses from it while denouncing others.  As a result, it looks like you want to have your cake and eat it too. 

Meanwhile, the rest of us are confused.  We have no idea what you consider in-bounds and out, nor how you arrived at your conclusions.   Well, we actually have a pretty good idea how you came to your conclusions.  We just are surprised by some of your choices.

I declare screwey,  how many times have my opponents quoted the Bible? Come on now! I have not the first time quoted the Bible in such a way as to declare it the Word of God. The only time I mention the Bible is when you all do, except the time I was talking about religion. I put those verses there for any Christians that might be watching this thread to see. I was telling a childhood story...

Anyway this is the kind of nonsense that wore me down. Constantly defending myself against unfounded hogwash.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #668 on: April 28, 2013, 07:09:29 AM »

Wouldn't it be better to tell them that actual, existing people love them?

I love you Jdawg, I really do. I love all of you.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #669 on: April 28, 2013, 07:19:14 AM »
I've explained free will to the best of my ability. Sorry for my shortcomings. Maybe if you do some studying over it you'll understand, maybe not.

Perhaps if you did some "studying" of your own, you'll understand.  Or have you ever read any books which don't align with what you already "believe"?

Start here.

I'm not the one asking questions.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #670 on: April 28, 2013, 07:29:22 AM »
I don't think you can draw a line between a belief and an action, because beliefs empower actions.  For example, junebug believes certain things regarding God having helped her, therefore her actions reflect that belief.  That's why a belief can be, and often is, a bad thing.  It isn't just actions that the person does, either; it's actions that they want to do, or want to see done.

Take the Christians who want to have public stonings of children who talk back to or curse their parents.  That want comes directly from their belief in God, because they believe the Bible is the Word of God and therefore, what God wants 'righteous' people to do.  In that case, belief in God is a bad thing, because it leads those people to want to perpetrate a horrific public punishment of people who violate Biblical rules.

Junebug's belief is fairly benign compared to that.  But benign does not mean good.  It just means "not bad".  That's not exactly a good recommendation, especially not when you consider all the bad things that religious people perpetrate because of their belief in God - and all the other beliefs that spring from it.

Do you think people would do any better if they give up their belief right now and if so why? 

Benign, that's a low blow. So all the good I've done in the name of God is benign? That goes together about as good as oil and vinegar. Is it not a good thing to battle bad religion because if it's not then you are just as benign as I am?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #671 on: April 28, 2013, 07:31:24 AM »
13 pages of "Science is hard, Religion (cough) Spirituality is easy."

Maybe I read the comments wrong.

-Nam


Believing is easier than thinking. Hence, so many more believers than thinkers.  (Bruce Calvert)

All you got is insults, proof of a lack of intelligent thought and that one doesn't belong to you.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #672 on: April 28, 2013, 07:50:49 AM »
Have you examined in detail every single religion that exists. You do know there are over 4,000?

jb, you really need to read up a bit before this goes further. I have a book called "God's Lunatic's" that I keep on the table by the front door, and I only share it with the fundamentalists who interrupt my privacy to tell me stories about their god. You ought to pick a copy up and give it a read. Some of the stuff people have decided god wanted them to do is genuinely funny. Even more so that they got other people to agree and join them. it would be quite educational for you, I promise.

There are more than 30,000 variations of christianity alone, and that's a conservative estimate - I've seen it shown (with evidence to support it no less) as high as 36,000+. That's just christianity, mind you. That doesn't include the other Abrahamic religions, or any of the eastern belief systems, or any non-christian path. Just the ones who use the Bible as the only possible correct way to interact with the world and universe in all matters, but none practical, like "use soap" or "don't own people".... Yeah, all 30,000+ of them - they figured out what God Himself wanted from people. How the heck am I supposed to figure out which idiot might be the right idiot? What would make me think any of them had any possibility at all of being right? My position at least makes sense, in light of everything we know so far to be true about the universe, in the objective use of the word true.

4,000? Pfft. Not even close. People make sh!t up and split off into their own "new" one true religion all the frickin' time - which you would know if you had bothered to follow any of the links I shared with you in the long post about 12 pages ago. How can anyone take any believers seriously, once they open their eyes and pay attention to the ridiculous rifts and schisms and splinter groups, all claiming to have the one and only truth-iest truth of them all? You all appear to just make it up as you go along.

I mean, really, how can I be expected to take any of you seriously? I have made sense of science's explantion of how stuff works. It fits together quite remarkably well. And I stopped believing in god long before I figured out what all the science was really telling me. There's no need for the addition of a god - my world seems quite complete without one.

That you require one doesn't make it good.

Ok then Jag tell me WHY are we here?

Because I've spent 30 years on this journey and I have thoughts on the subject worth discussing. You don't have to go along to respect others thoughts. I'm not talking about the extremists either. I'm talking about someone like myself, that does good, that does not harm their society but Loves it. Perhaps together we can help eliminate the world of it's bad religions!
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline Seppuku

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3855
  • Darwins +125/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • I am gay for Fred Phelps
    • Seppuku Arts
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #673 on: April 28, 2013, 09:35:43 AM »
I'm back for another round.

I think it is absolutely mind boggling how you can turn such a blind eye to greed. It's spinning out of control. I can understand why we don't    agree     
on the existence of God, but after 5 years and counting of this crap how much more EVIDENCE do you need. I'm beginning to think If I said the sky is blue you guys would say it's red just because you're afraid if you agree with me about anything it means you believe in God. I am not the one responsible for you actually looking at the EVIDENCE provided. Don't worry they're made by journalists there's not any kind of preaching going on. They have absolutely nothing to do with God.

There is all kinds of people in this world but when it comes to the common good of us all, we need to set differences aside and, how about this for an idea, WE WORK TOGETHER.

Seems as if most of you noticed the title of this thread but did not pay attention to a very important question in the very 1st post,"will you condemn the righteous along with the unrighteous?" Well I have my answer, you will. All you have to do is believe and that's enough to deserve your contempt.

I have provided an example of greed in every scenario you have given me. If I haven't proven Greed, not belief, to be the enemy the Earth is square!!!

Actually, I wouldn't say it's turning a blind eye to greed, I acknowledge the role it plays, but it isn't playing a role in every situation. You say you've provided an example in every scenario and yet, you've not fully addressed mine. You picked greed in 1 of 3 of my quotes and then tried to excuse why such greed existed in the bible. And since posting those quotes I have posted several more, where simply God is demanding people to murder. And in one where God even basically says, "do what I say or be cursed for it". Wouldn't fear be the motive for those who take those parts of the bible seriously rather than greed? It's about self preservation, not taking what you don't need. Of course, you're welcome to try and say God is the one being greedy and violently so, but that would require you to consider God to be the root of all evil, for me, he's fictional and a fictional character's greed simply does not count and I don't know the motives of those who wrote the bible.

That's something you've not addressed. A point I've made a few times at least, but the last time I posted it, I felt more back-up was due. It's actually enough motivation to start wars with non-believers. Is it not possible for somebody to do wrong because they truly believe they are doing right by God? Or that they will be damned if they don't?

You've also not considered the mentally ill, those with no apparent feelings of empathy or remorse, those without a concept of morality or those with a warped sense of morality. My uncle's got schizophrenia and he attacked my nan, I fail to see how he could have been motivated by greed, he's got a disorder that can make him angry and in that instance, violent. He sought nothing to gain from attacking her, only that it was an impulse driven by his mental state. Thankfully she wasn't hurt, however, schizophrenia, when left untreated or inadequately treated has left to people being killed as a result. And 'inadequately treated' does mean people have been too cheap to fork it out, it can be via neglect or simply not noticing the signs or properly dianosing somebody. The medicine is there for those who nee it. At least here in the UK, where we have the NHS, which is lacking in the resources to treat schizophrenia, and yet you still get news of a schizophrenic serial killer, whose mental instability has lead to the deaths of others after not being successfully treated.

Not trying to demonise schizophrenics, I love my uncle, he's a pretty decent guy. Always used to get Christmas present for me and my siblings growing up, even though he barely had any money and if it wasn't for his condition, he would never hurt a fly and normally the medication helps him with that. He's never actually hurt anyone.

Quote
There is all kinds of people in this world but when it comes to the common good of us all, we need to set differences aside and, how about this for an idea, WE WORK TOGETHER.

That was my plea much earlier on. But in order to resolve the problem, I feel the problem needs to addressed, not in all circumstances is it greed. I would much prefer a world where religious and non-religious can stand by each other's side and feel an act is abhorrent and address the reason why, rather than have folks be defensive about it. I recognise there's some pretty screwed up atheists out there, Stalin was one of them, some of his motives were anti-theism. If we had somebody here who hates religion and they were to suddenly take it to the extreme, their motivation would be anti-theism and not greed. They simply hate theists and wish to eradicate them. They may feel angry about a preacher on the street and just lash out, thus killing him. I would rather address the issue as anti-theism and say, "well, hang on a minute guys, lets not preach ignorance towards theists, they're not all bad", if I were to go down the greed route, what exactly would I do to encourage people to not be motivated to act on their ignorance? Would I try to encourage them to be more generous to people? Not to take what they don't need? Doesn't really help with their anti-theism.
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Offline Star Stuff

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5754
  • Darwins +146/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Carbon-based life form.
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #674 on: April 28, 2013, 09:42:37 AM »
I'm not the one asking questions.

Bingo!  On this we agree.



Faith does not give you the answers; it just stops you asking the questions.  (Frater Ravus)

The least questioned assumptions are often the most questionable.  (Paul Broca)

God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #675 on: April 28, 2013, 10:17:00 AM »
Quote from: Junebug
The blame lies with Greed. That's why I blame greed because greed is responsible for bad religion. You are not going to get rid of poverty without getting rid of greed. Poverty is 100% the American problem. As far as Muslims I would say their belief in God would be seriously altered if it were not for greed, from the beginning of life, mankind has not been satisfied with an adequate supply of necessities. Some really blow it out of proportion, so much so that it chokes the life out of the society in which they belong. When the wealth is so unevenly distributed this is what happens.

Okay, let's roll back to a previous post. You talked about societal and self preservation when I brought up an example in the bible. In this instance people needed to be a 'great' society to survive. Self-preservation isn't the same as greed, so let's consider some aspects of belief that are about self preservation. There are people who believe that if they don't obey God or please Him then they won't go to hell. There are people who are genuinely scared of going to hell and you could easily make a case for its influence on their actions. 'Greed' is an oversimplification, there are other human flaws which can result in the suffering of others. A person only needs to believe they are doing right by God to act in a cruel way, so long as they believe their God demands it. It's not just greed, it can be fear or as some believers suggest, love, they love their God and therefore they are obedient and it just so happens their God demands cruel and sick things.

Religious belief can also be responsible for bad religion. If a person believes it is right to kill a man because he belongs to another religion, it's not necessarily because he wants something he doesn't need, but because it's what he was taught was right and what he should do because his God demands it as documented in their holy text.

I am positive I mentioned Fear as well as greed being a powerful motivator in the problems we're talking about. Fear actually motivates greed. I tell you I have not heard a direct order from God. All I hear is religious orders, things people "think" God wants. All those thousands of religions can't be right. Let's get some people together and come up with something better that we can all agree on.

Do we know how one comes to the decision that God wants them to do bad things. How does that happen? I have had no such revelation out of my belief, on the contrary it's my belief that tells me it's wrong.

I think figuring out what God wants from us is a very large part of our challenge. 

My point being that what he was taught was bad. What motivated the dude that come up with the religion in the first place. I guarantee you it was fear or greed or both.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #676 on: April 28, 2013, 10:34:43 AM »
I have grown tired of these unfounded remarks. You have no proof of any neglect of critical thinking on my part. You have not offered anything new to the discussion in quite awhile. So do you concede the debate, Belief is not a Bad Thing?" If not please add something productive and save your sarcasm for another day.

I've always been sympathetic to your cause. I would like to see some serious modifications in the religious realm as well. I have learned a lot about Atheists in my time here at WDGHA, but ask yourself this question, is this really the impression I want jb to leave here with? If it is, you are part of the problem and I hope for you somewhere down the road you learn from your mistakes. Because the impression I have right now is the next war will be between Atheists and whoever don't agree with them.

This ^^^ is why believing something -- Or at least clinging to it too tightly -- is indeed a bad thing.  Star Stuff makes a comment about critical thinking; Junebug turns around and insinuates that we're a bunch of warmongers.  Where I come from, that's slander.

Game, set and match to the opposition.  </thread>

It was a statement to show you how strongly you hold to your belief.  Another case of the pot calling the kettle black. I am out right comparing you atheists to extreme Christianity. Ready to fight for what you believe. You still refuse to accept your own shortcomings. Nobody here is perfect, especially not me. You don't know it all and neither do I.

Anybody that reads this thread can see that I have bent a whole lot more than any of you. I didn't call you stupid, or suggest that you're mentally ill, or not worth the breathe you're breathing. Somebody here even told me to die. What else am I supposed to think.  If you didn't want me to have such a bad opinion of you perhaps you should have tried harder to be nice. Apparently "not believing" does not make better people, just makes them arrogant.

Proving here once and for all that it is not belief that makes people hateful.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline Seppuku

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3855
  • Darwins +125/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • I am gay for Fred Phelps
    • Seppuku Arts
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #677 on: April 28, 2013, 10:46:20 AM »
Well it will be hard to say for certain what motivated the original writers of the bible. I would say there's a lot of potential answers, not all with greed or fear as the main motivator. Once people lived in an oral culture and used storytelling as a way to explain the world around them, why things happen, to teach people things and how to survive and avoid some of the dangers out there. The bible is a huge collection of stories that may have evolved over time, there's certainly evidence to suggest that the story of Noah's Ark evolved from a much earlier Mesopotamian version, I would argue there's a lot collaborators. But, it's hard to say with a degree of accuracy, I can only compare how it has worked for similar things and piece some of the evidence together. I would say from reading it, many parts are meant to induce fear.

Quote
Do we know how one comes to the decision that God wants them to do bad things. How does that happen? I have had no such revelation out of my belief, on the contrary it's my belief that tells me it's wrong.

I'd say all one needs to do is believe the bible is the true word of God and read all the cruel and horrible passages. Or one has to be taught them by a preacher who's read it that way. I think in certain circumstances it's a scapegoat to their real motives or use it as a means to manipulate people. I'd say there's lots of reasons why. Depends on the individual really. As a non-believer I don't think there are any decisions coming from a God, but I understand that people believe God has spoken to them, be it through the bible or throught some perceived signs or through the voices in their head and a combination of all 3. The bible doesn't actually come with a guide of "how this should be read" and there's many contradictions and so many different ways of reading it that it's no surprised there's around 38,000 sects based around it. Just as a person may read the bible to help set themselves on a path to being good and better themselves, a person could equally read it to worsen themselves, but still think they're bettering themselves. It's the curse of religious dogma, unfortunately. I don't have a problem with those who believe it, so long as it's not having them hurt anybody.
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12299
  • Darwins +275/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #678 on: April 28, 2013, 11:16:22 AM »
No that's what their religion calls for and it is a disgrace to God. I'm curious, for what reason does this religion justify such horrific actions?

I know plenty of "spiritual but not religious" types who nonetheless share the sort of torture-belief I described.  Their beliefs about a god might be false.  They might indeed be a disgrace to a real god.  But they're still god-beliefs.  And they're still bad.

As for what justifies these horrific actions, it's the idea that humans are so morally hopeless that we have all earned such torture for ourselves, and would need a god to get us out of it.

Yea, I had a moment. I really didn't know what I was getting myself into here but I'm glad I did.

I'm still not clear on how this belief, and not yours, is a "religious" one.  The people we're talking about here have beliefs about what their god thinks.  You have beliefs about what your god thinks.  Regardless of who is wrong, there's no justification for calling one set of god-beliefs "religious" and the other one not.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #679 on: April 28, 2013, 11:20:07 AM »
I just came here to tell Atheists and Gays that God Loves You. I don't want other gay people or anybody having to go through what I did.

Well, then, you've failed miserably. You couldn't "tell" yourself out of a wet paper bag. You're a dime a dozen. You go to a forum filled with people who think critically, and try to make decisions based on evidence, and you selfishly insist everyone listen to your ignorant, emotional pablum unquestioningly.

Jesus Christ, woman! Did you pay attention in grade 8 language class? Part of thinking critically in "telling" anything to anyone includes considering your audience and tayloring your approach to them. In aristotelian terms, everything in your posts is pathos pathos pathos. Literally, pathetic. Talk about feeling sorry. Such selfishness.

FAIL FAIL FAIL

Do you know how many suicides there are among gays? The answer isn't tell them God doesn't exist, you tell them God loves you I don't care what those religious people say.

False dichotomy. There are not only two options. How about considering you're not a mental health expert and shutting your yap as the better course? Ya, maybe instead of you talking about yourself, and imaginary friends, a suicidal person may need actual help? Maybe better than another flavour of make-believe is a dose of reality and education.

You know, education, that shit teachers do that pulls third world economies out of the dark ages and empowers millions previously stiffled by superstition and stupidity? You know, that thing that empowers women across the earth? It's based on facts.

Quote
This is how I became spiritual rather than religious.


First remove the beam from your own I.

With all due respect pony I just met my audience. I would never talk to somebody the way you talk to me. I will put my Godly character up against your pathetic excuse for character any day. I'm saying now that I've got to know you I feel sorry for you. There's a lot more to social interactions than education, it's called manners, down south manners are very important. Being cold and callous is not a trait I care to share with you. I don't think the human mind should be limited to what you all think. I have the right to explore my own thoughts. I may not be an expert yet but all that I know now has come from experts. Even experts don't agree. You can find info. that supports your arguments, even though most of your posts have had nothing to do with the subject matter, I can find info. that supports mine.

What is your area of expertise pony? What is anybody here's expertise?

I think I know what goes on in a suicidal mind better than you do. Have you ever saved someone's life at the brink of suicide? I have, and telling them God loves them helped me to accomplish that. Any book I've read about mental health has stated that a healthy relationship with God is required. Not the god of religion; the "Creator of the Universe." 

You are not the only critical thinkers around. If you are such a critical thinker I would imagine you interested in what I have to say. You claim to be in search of God here and someone like me comes along to share their story and then you say their story doesn't matter. Why, tell me why don't my opinion matter. I bet I've dealt with more religious prejudices than any of you, these things we're talking about they affect me and my family. So no there will be no "yap shutting" here today.

Try this on for size. I believe you now. I'm sorry I've been so blind. God doesn't exist.

I bet that made you like me a whole lot more. Did that make my opinion matter?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #680 on: April 28, 2013, 11:32:37 AM »

I know plenty of "spiritual but not religious" types who nonetheless share the sort of torture-belief I described.  Their beliefs about a god might be false.  They might indeed be a disgrace to a real god.  But they're still god-beliefs.  And they're still bad.

As for what justifies these horrific actions, it's the idea that humans are so morally hopeless that we have all earned such torture for ourselves, and would need a god to get us out of it.

Yea, I had a moment. I really didn't know what I was getting myself into here but I'm glad I did.

I'm still not clear on how this belief, and not yours, is a "religious" one.  The people we're talking about here have beliefs about what their god thinks.  You have beliefs about what your god thinks.  Regardless of who is wrong, there's no justification for calling one set of god-beliefs "religious" and the other one not.

You know people like that and you're still alive, they must not be dedicated believers, in other words I don't believe you know people like that.

Religion is for crowds of people,a way to tell others what to do, spirituality is for the individual. I am not here to force anybody by any means to do anything. I have only asked to be accepted for who I am. I wanted to show you that you don't have to hate all believers, that all believers do not hate you. That is all I want to do here. I don't want you to hate me because I believe in God. I don't want you to look down on me or think I'm stupid because I believe in God. I think these things are bad for society. I don't think it's right for Christians to do it and I don't think it's right for you to do it.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #681 on: April 28, 2013, 11:43:28 AM »
Yet there's the feeding of the thousands with a few loaves of bread.  Why was it ok for their free will to be stripped away?

It seems that a long, long time ago, things used to not be a violation of free will.  Then at some point, they magically became a free will issue.

That, or god was violating free will all the time in bible days, then suddenly felt bad about it, enough that he never properly explained the change in his mind.  Either way, god seems to be more conscientious about free will whenever human becomes better at record keeping.

It did take a long time to know the world was round. Some things are easy some things are hard. I think God has been conscientious from the beginning it was man that had to learn.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12299
  • Darwins +275/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #682 on: April 28, 2013, 11:48:28 AM »
You know people like that and you're still alive, they must not be dedicated believers, in other words I don't believe you know people like that.

This makes absolutely no sense.  Why would I be at risk of dying to such people?  They're law-abiding citizens.  They just happen to believe that I'm morally deserving of eternal torture.  Since I'm not immortal, they figure I'll get my due in good time.  But they're not going to be all broken up about it if I happen to get tortured before I die, either.

They're not murderers, and nothing about their beliefs suggest that they should be murderers.  So like I said, you've made no sense here.

Religion is for crowds of people,a way to tell others what to do, spirituality is for the individual.

So, kind of like a "religion" of one.  Fair enough.  These people I'm talking about are no more religious than you are.

I am not here to force anybody by any means to do anything. I have only asked to be accepted for who I am. I wanted to show you that you don't have to hate all believers, that all believers do not hate you.

Of course they don't.  And I don't.  By the same token, though, not all believers have beliefs that are neutral, as I've explained regarding the ones who think I should be tortured.  Most believers are not a problem.  Where you seem to disagree with everyone is when they suggest that some are.

That is all I want to do here. I don't want you to hate me because I believe in God.

Why would I hate you for that in the first place?  Why would you even think that that's a problem to be fixed in the first place?

I don't want you to look down on me or think I'm stupid because I believe in God.

If people think that about you on here, I suspect it has more to do with your difficulty in carrying on a meaningful discussion, rather than the mere fact that you believe in a deity.

I think these things are bad for society. I don't think it's right for Christians to do it and I don't think it's right for you to do it.

Where have I done it, then?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #683 on: April 28, 2013, 12:07:24 PM »
It goes two ways. I'm always willing to expand my mind. I'm just not convinced greed is the source of all evil. I think greed has a big part to play in many injustices. There are some points and examples of mine you neither addressed nor refuted, I know you had a lot to get through, but you had made responses to a couple of those posts. The impression you've left with me is that you're more interested in sticking your fingers in your ears. Many-a-time we get people who a selectively ignorant because they don't want to budge on their views or listen to others. I think it's sad and to be honest, I would say ignorance is one reason so many suffer. Since I've been here, my views have evolved. Things I naively simplified I simplify no more.

You have failed to convince us that greed is the root of all evil. I know it's an expression people use, but the world isn't as simple as that. I wish it was, because it would make life's problems easier to identify and easier to find solution for. The human condition is so much more than that. You may not wish to believe it, but it's actually something addressed in multiple religions, Christianity chose the 7 deadly sins, but there are others. I am an atheist Buddhist (of the philosophical kind, non-religious), I know Buddhist philosophy has looked more at why humans suffer, the philosophy itself is based around the human condition, whilst it does identify greed, it is not the only thing it identifies. In a more scientific age, psychologists can identify many different motives unrelated to greed. If I had the time, I would have cracked open the psychology text book and picked out various theories and studies.

So, I know I have studied and I am still willing to learn more, but unfortunately I don't think you've been a successful teacher, I don't think you've been able offer a lot. But I was hoping to find some common ground, I mean, we find the acts we describe, abhorrant, but it seems you wish to deny the role faith/belief/religion has to play in it. Unfortunately the world isn't black and white, I get the feeling 'greed' is your scapegoat, whilst it is a problem in many incidents, I feel it prevents you from understanding the motives of any other situation.

I can't remember the quote, but there was something Henry Rollins said, that I pretty much try to live by and that's bascially, you judge people for who there are, making pre-judgment or sweeping judgments is just a lazy way of dealing with things. Everybody is an individual with their own problems, with their own complex lives and their own things to motivate them. I am not at all convinced by your way of simplifying things. If anything, it's by simplifying and making sweeping judgements you're being ignorant to the real problems, which could potentially lead to suffering or simply, allows it to continue.

It's why you'll see when we get anytheists on here, I'm more inclined to judge them for who they are and what they say rather than to label them 'theist' or 'Christian' and treat them accodingly. We've had a huge variety of people here, each with different motives, different goals and different beliefs under the same banner. Some good people, some not so much (Like AFadly who believed it's not immoral to rape non-Muslims). It's why I'm able to get along with people like MM, but not Maggie.

Ideally, I think we should accept the world for all its complexity, even when we don't understand it, than to try and persistantly simplify and therefore underestimate it.


Actually, I think this is a good video from Henry Rollins, it's a little bit of topic, but I think it's a good perspective on the human condition:


I'm pretty sure I was the one that told Anf it's not that cut and dry. I sure hope he read your post so he knows someone else disagrees with him. Pretty doggone sure I said that. Pretty sure I named fear as another motivator. I am not the one with blind eyes here. I am not. I see the wars of religions and that makes their religion bad. You know I am a gemini quite capable of seeing things from many perspectives. 

I say the fight against greed is the priority. That's what we need right now. A lid on greed. As far as bad religion goes I think Good beliefs will prevail triumphant over them all.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #684 on: April 28, 2013, 12:16:32 PM »
I just came here to tell Atheists and Gays that God Loves You.

So you claim.  Westboro' guys say god DOES hate gays.

Unfortuntely - since you are unwilling or unable to provide any evidence to back your statements - there is NO difference in credibility between your assertion, and theirs.

Can you see that, Junebug?  Can you see that statements made without evidence are nothing more than opinion, and that there is therefore no reason to accept any one in preference to another?

Consider these two statements:

Anfauglir likes lemon squash.
Anfauglir does not like lemon squash.

Which is true, Junebug?  How would you go about determining which one is true?

I've put a lot of thought into this one Anf. I do, I really do understand your need for evidence. I did not mean any offence by coming here with my story. I thought maybe my story might help, with the truth being it might prove you wrong, I mean myself. I just wanted to be a part of the discussion. A little tiny cell in the knowledge pool of history.

I don't seem to have the evidence you're looking for so if you just want me to leave I will.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #685 on: April 28, 2013, 12:36:33 PM »
I have given you several info sources to back up my claim of greed as the cause. Did you check any of them out.

Yes - as you well know.  You ran away from the questions I asked about them, and the problems there were with them.

Interesting article.  Shame it makes zero mention of beliefs.  Shame also that it is a second-hand article that sensationalises a study that doesn't mention any effects of kindness, or belief.  Nor does it look at any correlation between cause and effect - it assumes that you get rich, THEN you get greedy and mean, rather than considering the rather more obvious possibility that greedy and mean people get rich.

The second half is giving advice on how kindness will stop greed from making you mean - despite the fact that nowhere in the actual studies is this considered, or even mentioned.  So it is presumably just a pop-up in the head of someone with a particular view that they choose to shoehorn in, regardless of what the evidence shows.....which sounds to ME like a "bad thing" about a "belief".

It's also interesting that neither the article, nor the studies, present ANY evidence to suggest that these "greedy people" are in any way unhappy or dissatisfied with their lives.  Its an assumption made by the author of the piece, once again driven by his agenda.

Its sensationalist pap, so far as I can see, so I'm not entirely what you think it proves?

Also, one other question.  How far did you read?  Did you just read the Forbes article?  Did you read the abstract of the studies?  Did you read the full text of the studies, or the supporting evidence?

There was a lot more than just that article there Anf. I told you of several links attached to FSTV's website and Link TV as well. Of course you saw that one I posted it. Got in "trouble" for it too by the way. I get really tired of these attacks against my character. I have toughed out 20 something pages of responses. I do the best I can.  Especially with questions like yours that are long winding roads.

Can we maybe agree that there are other problems in the world? I would really just like to get to a place where we can work together. Tell me what do we have to do, to do that?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #686 on: April 28, 2013, 12:56:57 PM »

I think it is absolutely mind boggling how you can turn such a blind eye to greed. It's spinning out of control. I can understand why we don't    agree     
on the existence of God, but after 5 years and counting of this crap how much more EVIDENCE do you need. I'm beginning to think If I said the sky is blue you guys would say it's red just because you're afraid if you agree with me about anything it means you believe in God. I am not the one responsible for you actually looking at the EVIDENCE provided. Don't worry they're made by journalists there's not any kind of preaching going on. They have absolutely nothing to do with God.

There is all kinds of people in this world but when it comes to the common good of us all, we need to set differences aside and, how about this for an idea, WE WORK TOGETHER.

Seems as if most of you noticed the title of this thread but did not pay attention to a very important question in the very 1st post,"will you condemn the righteous along with the unrighteous?" Well I have my answer, you will. All you have to do is believe and that's enough to deserve your contempt.

I have provided an example of greed in every scenario you have given me. If I haven't proven Greed, not belief, to be the enemy the Earth is square!!!

I share your concerns about greed and lack of empathy and how it impacts on the human condition. I have to admit that I have not followed this thread closely, but I'm pretty sure that there are not too many greed advocates here on this forum.

From what I can tell, most of the criticism that you have received here has more to do with your inability to respond to specific requests for evidence.  In addition, I have observed that on numerous occasions, when confronted with questions that you would prefer not to answer, you respond with emotional appeals, especially personal appeals for sympathy, and occasionally appeals for concern about the larger human condition as it relates to greed.

I'm not sure if you are even aware of the fact that you are utilizing this strategy.  But I'm can say with a fair degree of confidence that this is the source of most of the frustration that you are experiencing here on the forum. 

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4936
  • Darwins +563/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #687 on: April 28, 2013, 01:51:09 PM »
Here's something for you to consider, junebug.  Your religious beliefs are subjective - perfectly valid as far as you're concerned, largely meaningless for others (especially if they don't agree with you).  What we're trying to do here is get you to understand that it doesn't do any good to expound on the virtues of something when you can't prove it even exists outside of your own mind.  That's why everyone here keeps pressing you for evidence - because many are convinced that gods are imaginary, and most of the others are not willing to just accept your assertions about your god, when they see so many other people making equally fervent assertions, but that contradict what you say, or what each other say.

It gets back to the original point of the thread - how do you prove that believing in a god is not a bad thing when it actually is a bad thing so much of the time, such as with the Westboro Baptists, or people who pass laws banning gay marriage for religious reasons, or people who think they're supposed to stone children to death who are disobedient or even just sass their parents because they're commanded to by the Bible, or people who thought being left-handed was evil because of their religious beliefs, or people who sought to kill those who did not believe as they did and would not convert to believing in their god, or a myriad of other things.

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #688 on: April 28, 2013, 01:56:15 PM »

Of course they don't.  And I don't.  By the same token, though, not all believers have beliefs that are neutral, as I've explained regarding the ones who think I should be tortured.  Most believers are not a problem.  Where you seem to disagree with everyone is when they suggest that some are.


If people think that about you on here, I suspect it has more to do with your difficulty in carrying on a meaningful discussion, rather than the mere fact that you believe in a deity.



I will just have to say that I have successfully carried on a meaningful conversation for 24 pages now. The posts are back there plain as day for all to see.

I have said that some people's beliefs such as the one's you mention here are bad. Where we part ways is here: I don't think people can help believing in God. I think good beliefs will become more common and eventually wipe out the bad ones. There is already a tilt in the scale in the right direction. 




I share your concerns about greed and lack of empathy and how it impacts on the human condition. I have to admit that I have not followed this thread closely, but I'm pretty sure that there are not too many greed advocates here on this forum.

From what I can tell, most of the criticism that you have received here has more to do with your inability to respond to specific requests for evidence.  In addition, I have observed that on numerous occasions, when confronted with questions that you would prefer not to answer, you respond with emotional appeals, especially personal appeals for sympathy, and occasionally appeals for concern about the larger human condition as it relates to greed.

I'm not sure if you are even aware of the fact that you are utilizing this strategy.  But I'm can say with a fair degree of confidence that this is the source of most of the frustration that you are experiencing here on the forum. 

I am not here to prove to you God exists. How many times do I have to say that here. My goodness. It's exasperating! Another thing is you don't look at the evidence I do provide. If you don't look at it I can't help that. It's on you not me.

I have never asked for sympathy. I don't need it, I'm fine. Can't someone share their story for the sake of progress without "wanting sympathy? I declare! You can not share such an intimate story without some emotions involved. The whole point of sharing it with you was to show you how I think God has helped me overcome those hard times. The only evidence is the woman that is here, stronger, wiser, and more loving than ever.  If I wasn't convinced that Intelligence was and is behind our design It would be easy to make an atheist out of me, but I am. It just makes sense to me.

Gotta go for now.

Thanks for agreeing with me a little bit. :D

One more thing if Good belief overcomes bad beliefs then will belief be a good thing?


« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 01:57:58 PM by junebug72 »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
  • Darwins +72/-83
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #689 on: April 28, 2013, 02:03:55 PM »
Well it will be hard to say for certain what motivated the original writers of the bible. I would say there's a lot of potential answers, not all with greed or fear as the main motivator. Once people lived in an oral culture and used storytelling as a way to explain the world around them, why things happen, to teach people things and how to survive and avoid some of the dangers out there. The bible is a huge collection of stories that may have evolved over time, there's certainly evidence to suggest that the story of Noah's Ark evolved from a much earlier Mesopotamian version, I would argue there's a lot collaborators. But, it's hard to say with a degree of accuracy, I can only compare how it has worked for similar things and piece some of the evidence together. I would say from reading it, many parts are meant to induce fear.

Quote
Do we know how one comes to the decision that God wants them to do bad things. How does that happen? I have had no such revelation out of my belief, on the contrary it's my belief that tells me it's wrong.

I'd say all one needs to do is believe the bible is the true word of God and read all the cruel and horrible passages. Or one has to be taught them by a preacher who's read it that way. I think in certain circumstances it's a scapegoat to their real motives or use it as a means to manipulate people. I'd say there's lots of reasons why. Depends on the individual really. As a non-believer I don't think there are any decisions coming from a God, but I understand that people believe God has spoken to them, be it through the bible or throught some perceived signs or through the voices in their head and a combination of all 3. The bible doesn't actually come with a guide of "how this should be read" and there's many contradictions and so many different ways of reading it that it's no surprised there's around 38,000 sects based around it. Just as a person may read the bible to help set themselves on a path to being good and better themselves, a person could equally read it to worsen themselves, but still think they're bettering themselves. It's the curse of religious dogma, unfortunately. I don't have a problem with those who believe it, so long as it's not having them hurt anybody.

Just want to say before I go for today that I do like the way you think seppuku.  You would make a good leader. I'll look further at this later but so far looks like a good read.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12299
  • Darwins +275/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #690 on: April 28, 2013, 02:23:14 PM »
I will just have to say that I have successfully carried on a meaningful conversation for 24 pages now. The posts are back there plain as day for all to see.

Usually when it lasts for 24 pages with little or no progress past the starting points for anyone involved, that's not classified as "success".  If there was success somewhere in there, then it wouldn't still be going on 24 pages later.

I have said that some people's beliefs such as the one's you mention here are bad. Where we part ways is here: I don't think people can help believing in God. I think good beliefs will become more common and eventually wipe out the bad ones. There is already a tilt in the scale in the right direction.

Maybe so.  Maybe not.  Anyway, I was just trying to get you to acknowledge that "belief in God" can, in some cases, be a bad thing.  And I succeeded.  Hmm, maybe there's some success along the way after all.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6714
  • Darwins +534/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #691 on: April 28, 2013, 03:34:56 PM »

Try this on for size. I believe you now. I'm sorry I've been so blind. God doesn't exist.

I bet that made you like me a whole lot more. Did that make my opinion matter?

“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

Douglas Adams, The Salmon of Doubt.


We cannot understand why you should believe an gods, mystic powers, invisible friends, etc. You have attributed the world's ills to man but -and I have no idea why - "God does the good bits." What makes you think that mankind cannot do the good bits too? You realise, don't you, that there are far more good people in the world than bad ones?

What is the need for an god? And why your particular one, who seems to bear no relation to the one in the Bible?

If you think you are getting a bad time, it is because we have heard no arguments from you that there is a god.

What would you think of me if I were to keep saying the earth was flat and giving no proof?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12525
  • Darwins +324/-84
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #692 on: April 28, 2013, 04:00:34 PM »
I don't know about the rest of you but all I read from her is the usual list of things by Christians:

1. I used to be just like you[1] but then I saw the light and that light was God through Jesus Christ.[2]

2. I am right[3], and you're wrong[4].

3. The evidence[5] is all around you but you're just too blind[6] to see what's right in front of you but I am here to show you to the right path because I was just like you[7].

4. You prove by each rejection about how you are in the devil's grasp by rejecting my truth[8]!

5. Doesn't get their way they begin whining how we're mean, and we're not treating them with respect. Twisting of words, putting words into mouths, not "understanding" them etc.,

6. Threatens to leave[9].

7. Says they and their god loves us[10].

and on and on and on...

Typical.

-Nam
 1. an atheist
 2. which means they never were an atheist they're just stating it to relate
 3. because I believe in Biblegod
 4. because you don't
 5. which isn't evidence
 6. the devil is blocking your way
 7. former atheist
 8. a former atheist would know how to speak to current atheists because they used to be one; which just shows how they were never an atheist
 9. and does but comes back, you know: to save us.
 10. while at the same time stating disparaging things toward us
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6717
  • Darwins +896/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #693 on: April 28, 2013, 05:26:24 PM »
junebug, all people here want is for you to clearly explain why you believe that a supernatural being exists, and why you think such a belief is better than not having such a belief. You have instead told us many contradictory and nonsensical things. When we challenge you on the contradictions, you become very defensive. Can you respond to any of the following questions:

1)You have told us that your supernatural being loves us. How could you possibly know what this supernatural being thinks or feels? Has it communicated with you? If so, how? You have said we need to experience this being in our "hearts" and "souls". What exactly does this mean?

2)Many people suffer (from disease, natural disasters, etc.) in spite of the supposed love of this being. You have not explained why so many people do not get helped by this being. You have also told us that your supernatural being will not do anything about human suffering like war, violence, poverty, child starvation. How does this square with the love it feels for us? Why would believing in a being that does nothing for people in the most need be useful in any way?

3)You have told us that your supernatural being has helped you in hard times. How would a supernatural being help a human? And how did you get singled out for such help when many other people continue to suffer?

4)You say that human suffering is mainly caused by greed and fear. Even assuming this to be true, where is the role of the supernatural being in this? Did he create greed and fear? Does he now watch and wait, hoping for everyone to stop being greedy and fearful?

5)It won't help people in need, it does not influence anything, nobody can detect it except subjectively (in our "hearts" and "souls"). If that is the case, how does the existence of this being (who does nothing concrete to help people in need) compare to there being no supernatural being at all? What benefit is there for people to believe in such a being?

You do understand that, as you have described it, there may be nothing there at all. Alternatively, what you have describe is exactly indistinguishable from the actions of a supernatural being who hates all of us and is only pretending (by telling us in our  "hearts" and "souls") that it loves all of us. Can you explain why that is not possible?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12525
  • Darwins +324/-84
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #694 on: April 28, 2013, 07:51:57 PM »
"I love my my children, and when they are hurt, and dying, I do absolutely nothing to help them except to tell them I love them."

Imagine if all parents were like this all over the world, we'd have less children and by default less people in the world.

That's Biblegod's morality. And Christians love it for it yet do the exact opposite, for the most part. I wonder if Junebug will or currently does that for her children?

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Astreja

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3014
  • Darwins +265/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • Agnostic goddess with Clue-by-Four™
    • The Springy Goddess
Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #695 on: April 28, 2013, 08:00:56 PM »
Junebug, I for one have never doubted that greed is a longstanding problem for humanity.  Attempts to deal with it are also not unique to Christianity, either.  For instance, in classical Buddhist thought, greed is one of the "three poisons" (the other two being anger and stupidity).

Simply put, religion/spirituality/belief is no remedy against greed.  It may serve to encourage and motivate people dealing with adversity, on a person-by-person basis, but praying for the world to become less greedy {less angry, less stupid} simply does not work.  Prayer functions at an individual and psychological level, not at a global or empirical one, and only when you can manifest the desired characteristics in your own community do you stand a chance of influencing other people.

Instead of praying for less greed, model generosity and simplify your lifestyle.  Declutter.  Give to local charities.  Buy second-hand clothing.  Try to repair a broken appliance rather than tossing it out and rushing out to buy a new one.

Instead of praying for less anger, model an even temper that seeks out win-win solutions to problems.

Instead of praying for less stupidity, act thoughtfully and strive to educate yourself and others.

No gods are required to do this, and IMNSHO this method is vastly more likely to succeed.

Reality Checkroom — Not Responsible for Lost Articles