Author Topic: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing  (Read 43405 times)

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #638 on: April 27, 2013, 09:02:28 AM »

The Bible is a historical document of the Jews history. Jesus is part of that history. I do not believe it to be the Words of God.

No I said, the religions presented to me did not except me the way I am. God has always loved me and you. I do not do religion, I have already been there done that with your friends. Spent 4-5 pages on it. I'm somewhat a pantheistic believer but I don't like to limit myself to 1 point of view. Don't really like holidays, I'll do some Christmas for the children and that's about it.
Well, no the bible is NOT a document of history. just about everything in there is a myth with LITERALLY zero evidence in the REAL world. The bible itself claims to be "Gods Word" so one one hand you believe the nonsense in it based upon whims, but also at the same time disbelieve it based upon whims. You cannot tell us why you believe some of the bible is true and why some of it is outright lies, or why after admitting some of it is bald faced lies that you believe any of it. And then you rejected belief systems about this god because you felt that god would not accept you so you created your own belief system about god (aka a religion)... I dont know how youre missing it, but thats exactly creating your own religion and god. Westboro Baptist is correct, the god of the bible HATES FAGS. There is no disputing that. So, if your god doesnt hate fags then you are not talking about the god in the bible or Jesus since they are the same thing. Just because you dont have a bunch of followers of your religion doesnt make it not a religion.

You still did not address the issue of how belief in the god of the bible is bad because it makes people not accept gays. It even tells them to kill gays. To me hating and killing gays is bad. How about you.

Offline Razel

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #639 on: April 27, 2013, 09:19:37 AM »
It has been said that waiting on prayer keeps things from getting done like getting rid of poverty. If getting rid of belief doesn't solve any problems then it must not be one.

People are going to do what they do regardless of whether or not they pray.

Anyways, people aren't showing you starving children to make you feel guilty.  They're showing you starving children because their existence contradicts a benevolent all-powerful God.

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I just shouldn't have used that percentage. I don't know the exact %. I was just trying to make the point that it is a very very very small amount.

I know, I was just showing you that 1% isn't always as small as it looks.

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #640 on: April 27, 2013, 09:25:01 AM »
When I make a decision concerning God's will, when I'm trying to figure it out, I ask myself, what would a God that Loves us do?

As God is beyond human comprehension, how do you manage that?

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I will say again that bad religion is a direct consequence of greed. Greed is the enemy not belief.

You have done nothing to show that greed is the primary cause of anyone's ills, nor have you linked greed to God's word (as you interpret it) nor have you done anything to establish that "God loves us."

Your fixed belief appears to be without foundations.

I have given you several info sources to back up my claim of greed as the cause. Did you check any of them out.

Why link greed to God's words? Don't know why I would.

I believe God loves you and that all the joys of life are an extension of that love. We all have our proverbial crosses to carry and you can let the cross get the best of you or make the best of you. Trials can make us better, that's what I did with mine.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #641 on: April 27, 2013, 09:40:31 AM »
It has been said that waiting on prayer keeps things from getting done like getting rid of poverty. If getting rid of belief doesn't solve any problems then it must not be one.

People are going to do what they do regardless of whether or not they pray.

Anyways, people aren't showing you starving children to make you feel guilty.  They're showing you starving children because their existence contradicts a benevolent all-powerful God.

Quote
I just shouldn't have used that percentage. I don't know the exact %. I was just trying to make the point that it is a very very very small amount.

I know, I was just showing you that 1% isn't always as small as it looks.

God feeding those children is not free will. That completely strips mankind of their free will. God has told us through our conscious that greed is wrong yet we let it run rampid. We can solve this problem by addressing the issue of greed. What you are asking God to do is to let us continue being greedy.

 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #642 on: April 27, 2013, 09:44:08 AM »
God feeding those children is not free will. That completely strips mankind of their free will. God has told us through our conscious that greed is wrong yet we let it run rampid. We can solve this problem by addressing the issue of greed. What you are asking God to do is to let us continue being greedy.
How does making food available strip ANYONE of freewill?

Offline Razel

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #643 on: April 27, 2013, 09:53:58 AM »
God feeding those children is not free will. That completely strips mankind of their free will.

So world hunger is a result of children choosing to starve themselves.  Fascinating.

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #644 on: April 27, 2013, 09:57:37 AM »
God feeding those children is not free will. That completely strips mankind of their free will.

Yet there's the feeding of the thousands with a few loaves of bread.  Why was it ok for their free will to be stripped away?
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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #645 on: April 27, 2013, 10:12:36 AM »

The Bible is a historical document of the Jews history. Jesus is part of that history. I do not believe it to be the Words of God.

No I said, the religions presented to me did not except me the way I am. God has always loved me and you. I do not do religion, I have already been there done that with your friends. Spent 4-5 pages on it. I'm somewhat a pantheistic believer but I don't like to limit myself to 1 point of view. Don't really like holidays, I'll do some Christmas for the children and that's about it.
Well, no the bible is NOT a document of history. just about everything in there is a myth with LITERALLY zero evidence in the REAL world. The bible itself claims to be "Gods Word" so one one hand you believe the nonsense in it based upon whims, but also at the same time disbelieve it based upon whims. You cannot tell us why you believe some of the bible is true and why some of it is outright lies, or why after admitting some of it is bald faced lies that you believe any of it. And then you rejected belief systems about this god because you felt that god would not accept you so you created your own belief system about god (aka a religion)... I dont know how youre missing it, but thats exactly creating your own religion and god. Westboro Baptist is correct, the god of the bible HATES FAGS. There is no disputing that. So, if your god doesnt hate fags then you are not talking about the god in the bible or Jesus since they are the same thing. Just because you dont have a bunch of followers of your religion doesnt make it not a religion.

You still did not address the issue of how belief in the god of the bible is bad because it makes people not accept gays. It even tells them to kill gays. To me hating and killing gays is bad. How about you.

Maybe if Gawd hears it from one of you guys he'll know that the Bible is a historical document. Doesn't mean it's all true it means it's a very old record of ancient life among the Jews.

How in this world does a Bible say anything? The Bible is a record of what Abrahamic descendants say God said.  Abraham said, Moses said, Elijah said, Matthew said, and so on. The Bible says nothing on it's own.

I tell you I'm not trying to control a society with belief. I am not taking advantage of people in search of a life without fear. I do not worship or practice rituals.

There is a post where I showed a link to an info source to help you understand the difference. You can believe in God without being religious.

That's what I am.

I think the Jews messed things up for a whole lot of people by saying what they said there. They were against gayness because they were supposed to reproduce and make a Great Nation. See the greed there. All the people wanted a "great nation" so they went right along with that horrible law and disgraced God.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #646 on: April 27, 2013, 10:15:50 AM »
God feeding those children is not free will. That completely strips mankind of their free will.

So world hunger is a result of children choosing to starve themselves.  Fascinating.

No it's the choice to be greedy that starves those children. That's what greed does it takes food out of the mouths of children. If God rids the world of greed then we did not chose to do it God did it for us thereby eliminating free will.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #647 on: April 27, 2013, 10:23:15 AM »
God feeding those children is not free will. That completely strips mankind of their free will.

Yet there's the feeding of the thousands with a few loaves of bread.  Why was it ok for their free will to be stripped away?

Have we not agreed that the Bible is a sketchy witness?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Razel

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #648 on: April 27, 2013, 10:25:04 AM »
God feeding those children is not free will. That completely strips mankind of their free will.

So world hunger is a result of children choosing to starve themselves.  Fascinating.

No it's the choice to be greedy that starves those children.

Those children didn't choose to starve.

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #649 on: April 27, 2013, 10:28:53 AM »
God feeding those children is not free will. That completely strips mankind of their free will.

So world hunger is a result of children choosing to starve themselves.  Fascinating.

No it's the choice to be greedy that starves those children.

Those children didn't choose to starve.

No but greedy people sure chose to make it happen.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Razel

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #650 on: April 27, 2013, 10:31:13 AM »
God feeding those children is not free will. That completely strips mankind of their free will.

So world hunger is a result of children choosing to starve themselves.  Fascinating.

No it's the choice to be greedy that starves those children.

Those children didn't choose to starve.

No but greedy people sure chose to make it happen.

So only greedy people deserve to have free will?

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #651 on: April 27, 2013, 10:41:44 AM »
Yet there's the feeding of the thousands with a few loaves of bread.  Why was it ok for their free will to be stripped away?

It seems that a long, long time ago, things used to not be a violation of free will.  Then at some point, they magically became a free will issue.

That, or god was violating free will all the time in bible days, then suddenly felt bad about it, enough that he never properly explained the change in his mind.  Either way, god seems to be more conscientious about free will whenever human becomes better at record keeping.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #652 on: April 27, 2013, 10:54:30 AM »
Well I've stood about as much as I can take of this place. I am not leaving here with a good impression of atheists, you can thx the mods and ponytail for that. I still think God Loves you all and I wish you nothing but happiness.

You'll see me on the frontlines fighting GREED!!!

It's quite clear that we are not going to come to a conclusion we can agree on so I guess we agree to disagree.

I've explained free will to the best of my ability. Sorry for my shortcomings. Maybe if you do some studying over it you'll understand, maybe not.

I've done my best and I walk away with my head held high.

Good Bye

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #653 on: April 27, 2013, 11:07:08 AM »
I've explained free will to the best of my ability. Sorry for my shortcomings. Maybe if you do some studying over it you'll understand, maybe not.

Perhaps if you did some "studying" of your own, you'll understand.  Or have you ever read any books which don't align with what you already "believe"?

Start here.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #654 on: April 27, 2013, 11:32:29 AM »
Well I've stood about as much as I can take of this place. I am not leaving here with a good impression of atheists, you can thx the mods and ponytail for that. I still think God Loves you all and I wish you nothing but happiness.

You'll see me on the frontlines fighting GREED!!!

It's quite clear that we are not going to come to a conclusion we can agree on so I guess we agree to disagree.

I've explained free will to the best of my ability. Sorry for my shortcomings. Maybe if you do some studying over it you'll understand, maybe not.

I've done my best and I walk away with my head held high.

Good Bye
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"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #655 on: April 27, 2013, 11:49:52 AM »
I'm seeing pigeons and chessboards in my head right now...

Heh heh, I get that.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #656 on: April 27, 2013, 11:56:00 AM »
It goes two ways. I'm always willing to expand my mind. I'm just not convinced greed is the source of all evil. I think greed has a big part to play in many injustices. There are some points and examples of mine you neither addressed nor refuted, I know you had a lot to get through, but you had made responses to a couple of those posts. The impression you've left with me is that you're more interested in sticking your fingers in your ears. Many-a-time we get people who a selectively ignorant because they don't want to budge on their views or listen to others. I think it's sad and to be honest, I would say ignorance is one reason so many suffer. Since I've been here, my views have evolved. Things I naively simplified I simplify no more.

You have failed to convince us that greed is the root of all evil. I know it's an expression people use, but the world isn't as simple as that. I wish it was, because it would make life's problems easier to identify and easier to find solution for. The human condition is so much more than that. You may not wish to believe it, but it's actually something addressed in multiple religions, Christianity chose the 7 deadly sins, but there are others. I am an atheist Buddhist (of the philosophical kind, non-religious), I know Buddhist philosophy has looked more at why humans suffer, the philosophy itself is based around the human condition, whilst it does identify greed, it is not the only thing it identifies. In a more scientific age, psychologists can identify many different motives unrelated to greed. If I had the time, I would have cracked open the psychology text book and picked out various theories and studies.

So, I know I have studied and I am still willing to learn more, but unfortunately I don't think you've been a successful teacher, I don't think you've been able offer a lot. But I was hoping to find some common ground, I mean, we find the acts we describe, abhorrant, but it seems you wish to deny the role faith/belief/religion has to play in it. Unfortunately the world isn't black and white, I get the feeling 'greed' is your scapegoat, whilst it is a problem in many incidents, I feel it prevents you from understanding the motives of any other situation.

I can't remember the quote, but there was something Henry Rollins said, that I pretty much try to live by and that's bascially, you judge people for who there are, making pre-judgment or sweeping judgments is just a lazy way of dealing with things. Everybody is an individual with their own problems, with their own complex lives and their own things to motivate them. I am not at all convinced by your way of simplifying things. If anything, it's by simplifying and making sweeping judgements you're being ignorant to the real problems, which could potentially lead to suffering or simply, allows it to continue.

It's why you'll see when we get anytheists on here, I'm more inclined to judge them for who they are and what they say rather than to label them 'theist' or 'Christian' and treat them accodingly. We've had a huge variety of people here, each with different motives, different goals and different beliefs under the same banner. Some good people, some not so much (Like AFadly who believed it's not immoral to rape non-Muslims). It's why I'm able to get along with people like MM, but not Maggie.

Ideally, I think we should accept the world for all its complexity, even when we don't understand it, than to try and persistantly simplify and therefore underestimate it.


Actually, I think this is a good video from Henry Rollins, it's a little bit of topic, but I think it's a good perspective on the human condition:
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 01:56:39 PM by Seppuku »
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #657 on: April 27, 2013, 02:11:54 PM »
I just came here to tell Atheists and Gays that God Loves You.

I said just because somebody says it, does not make it so.

So you agree that just because you say "God loves you", that does not make it so?

So how do we know?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #658 on: April 27, 2013, 02:12:46 PM »
Why is it everytime I read your posts I feel like I'm walking into a trap?

Because you secretly know your opinions are inconsistent and don't want to get into a situation where that is made clear to you, perhaps?

No, it's because you're questions are little trappettes.

How can I be trapping you Junebug?  If everything you are saying is logically consistent and true, what trap would be possible?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #659 on: April 27, 2013, 02:17:10 PM »
I have given you several info sources to back up my claim of greed as the cause. Did you check any of them out.

Yes - as you well know.  You ran away from the questions I asked about them, and the problems there were with them.

Interesting article.  Shame it makes zero mention of beliefs.  Shame also that it is a second-hand article that sensationalises a study that doesn't mention any effects of kindness, or belief.  Nor does it look at any correlation between cause and effect - it assumes that you get rich, THEN you get greedy and mean, rather than considering the rather more obvious possibility that greedy and mean people get rich.

The second half is giving advice on how kindness will stop greed from making you mean - despite the fact that nowhere in the actual studies is this considered, or even mentioned.  So it is presumably just a pop-up in the head of someone with a particular view that they choose to shoehorn in, regardless of what the evidence shows.....which sounds to ME like a "bad thing" about a "belief".

It's also interesting that neither the article, nor the studies, present ANY evidence to suggest that these "greedy people" are in any way unhappy or dissatisfied with their lives.  Its an assumption made by the author of the piece, once again driven by his agenda.

Its sensationalist pap, so far as I can see, so I'm not entirely what you think it proves?

Also, one other question.  How far did you read?  Did you just read the Forbes article?  Did you read the abstract of the studies?  Did you read the full text of the studies, or the supporting evidence?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #660 on: April 27, 2013, 02:22:33 PM »
I've done my best and I walk away with my head held high.

You have evaded every question that has been asked of you.  You have no evidence for a single thing you say.  You have ducked and dodged for page after page.  You have refused to engage with any serious questions.  You have spouted substanceless airy-fairy woo in an attempt to make yourself seem all spiritual and worldy-wise.

And now - because you HAVE no proof of a single claim you have been making - you are slinking away, after wilfully wasting our time for pages and pages.  I have no respect for you Junebug - as I have no respect for anyone who is so dishonest about what they claim.

Have a good life - and every time you open your mouth to spout about your god, think about John's Magic Socks, and ask yourself whether you would accept a single word you are saying if it came from him.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #661 on: April 27, 2013, 02:47:05 PM »
It's quite clear that we are not going to come to a conclusion we can agree on so I guess we agree to disagree.



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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #662 on: April 27, 2013, 08:34:12 PM »
I admit the first reply did not address your question but you're going to have to explain how the second response was not a direct answer. ...

You know, you're absolutely right.  I misread your 2nd reply as saying that you thought torture was a horrible thing (hence my reply,"of course you do"), instead you did indeed answer my question (believing that you deserve torture would be a bad thing - and I agree).

Of course, as you suspected, this does tie into peoples' religious[1] beliefs.  Some people do believe others deserve torture, because that's what their god decrees.  I've talked to some who believe their god has deemed all of humanity to deserve to be eternally tortured.

That's about as extreme of a "torture belief" as one can imagine, eh?  And yet, your position - as I understand it - is that god-beliefs are never a bad thing.  Greed doesn't play into this matter, junebug.  The kind of god-belief I'm talking about is bad, for both of us.  Agreed?

PS:  I was leading into this with my prior question, but I'm not leading into anything else with this one.  What you see above is the entire point I am trying to press; no more hidden meanings.

EDIT:  Ahh, crap.  She ran away.  Oh well, this place doesn't suit her anyway.
 1. ...or whatever you want to call them, spiritual, supernatural, whatever...
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 08:37:23 PM by Azdgari »
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Offline JeffPT

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #663 on: April 27, 2013, 09:38:23 PM »
God isn't real Junebug.

Have a nice day.
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #664 on: April 28, 2013, 02:06:25 AM »
Now it seems to be: "You're twisting my words (putting words in my mouth), I answered your question...you're picking on me!"[1]

Did I get it wrong again?

-Nam

 1. the progression of one who sees themself as being persecuted by the big bad meanie atheists
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #665 on: April 28, 2013, 06:06:32 AM »
I'm back for another round.

I think it is absolutely mind boggling how you can turn such a blind eye to greed. It's spinning out of control. I can understand why we don't    agree     
on the existence of God, but after 5 years and counting of this crap how much more EVIDENCE do you need. I'm beginning to think If I said the sky is blue you guys would say it's red just because you're afraid if you agree with me about anything it means you believe in God. I am not the one responsible for you actually looking at the EVIDENCE provided. Don't worry they're made by journalists there's not any kind of preaching going on. They have absolutely nothing to do with God.

There is all kinds of people in this world but when it comes to the common good of us all, we need to set differences aside and, how about this for an idea, WE WORK TOGETHER.

Seems as if most of you noticed the title of this thread but did not pay attention to a very important question in the very 1st post,"will you condemn the righteous along with the unrighteous?" Well I have my answer, you will. All you have to do is believe and that's enough to deserve your contempt.

I have provided an example of greed in every scenario you have given me. If I haven't proven Greed, not belief, to be the enemy the Earth is square!!!
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #666 on: April 28, 2013, 06:51:46 AM »
I admit the first reply did not address your question but you're going to have to explain how the second response was not a direct answer. ...

You know, you're absolutely right.  I misread your 2nd reply as saying that you thought torture was a horrible thing (hence my reply,"of course you do"), instead you did indeed answer my question (believing that you deserve torture would be a bad thing - and I agree).

Of course, as you suspected, this does tie into peoples' religious[1] beliefs.  Some people do believe others deserve torture, because that's what their god decrees.  I've talked to some who believe their god has deemed all of humanity to deserve to be eternally tortured.

That's about as extreme of a "torture belief" as one can imagine, eh?  And yet, your position - as I understand it - is that god-beliefs are never a bad thing.  Greed doesn't play into this matter, junebug.  The kind of god-belief I'm talking about is bad, for both of us.  Agreed?

PS:  I was leading into this with my prior question, but I'm not leading into anything else with this one.  What you see above is the entire point I am trying to press; no more hidden meanings.

EDIT:  Ahh, crap.  She ran away.  Oh well, this place doesn't suit her anyway.
 1. ...or whatever you want to call them, spiritual, supernatural, whatever...

No that's what their religion calls for and it is a disgrace to God. I'm curious, for what reason does this religion justify such horrific actions?

Yea, I had a moment. I really didn't know what I was getting myself into here but I'm glad I did.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99