Author Topic: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing  (Read 42769 times)

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Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #435 on: April 21, 2013, 10:54:14 AM »
Wow, I'm really close to being "white light and fluffly bunnies"-ed to exhaustion on this.

junebug, I'm not sure if you caught the actual point of my post. The examples I gave you, two out of MILLIONS I could have used, show quite clearly that BELIEF IN GOD IS THE FORCE BEHIND THESE CHOICES. AND THESE CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE THE SAME OPTIONS OR OPPORTUNITIES TO CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES. BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE HAS IMPOSED THEIR PERSONAL GOD BELIEFS ON THE VICTIMS OF THE OUTCOMES. There are victims, real human beings who's lives and opportunities to make choices are taken away from them by people who sincerely believe they are doing god's will. That's HARMFUL, no matter how you look at it.

Yes, it's the people who are actually doing the harm, I've never disputed that. BUT, the point you keep not seeing is that yes, believing in god(s) can be a VERY BAD THING INDEED when it causes people to harm others. Denying it because you personally are not oppressing anyone does not make it so.

I really do not see what you're so upset with  Jag. All the bold capital letters give me the impression of anger.

You're reading too much into the formatting if you think the bolded words indicate anger - they are meant to draw attention to specific words.

I think the only thing we disagree on is the cause of it all. I say it is religion.

Which stems from god beliefs (with a few exceptions such as Buddhism). Religions causes people to act "in the name of God". See the connection between them yet?

See that's the kind of leader I want to see lead. It's going to take a courageous person. I thought Obama might get the job done but it seems we're more divided than ever!(you won't convince me it has nothing to do with skin color and money) He needs to get his butt out there and talk to the people in this country. Bring us together. State Governments, city and county, they all need to do some "soul searching." Lead people Lead. I don't see much of any of them; only segments on the news where they seem to just add more controversy. Matters that concern the air we breathe, water we drink and food we eat should be voted on by "we the people."

jb, you  don't even see that you are unwittingly making my point for me.

You're still sitting here waiting for someone else to step up and lead. So are almost all the other people on the planet, as near as I can tell. And far, far too many of them do nothing because they are waiting for someone else. And far, far too many of them believe  that the someone else they're waiting for is God.

In your case its apparently up to Obama to "bring us all together" even though "we're more divided than ever!(you won't convince me it has nothing to do with skin color and money)". So, what? You gonna wait another four years for it to be someone else's turn to do a job that is impossible by your own observation*? <---*emphasis to point out double standard you employed right there.

What are you waiting FOR jb? What are you and all the other believers waiting for? I don't give a sh!t if you pray, but then get up off your knees and do something of practical use - you claim repeatedly that you don't think God is going to intervene, so just what in the hell are you waiting for? How is your claimed purpose (demonstrating that god beliefs are good) best served by arguing with us about whether or not god exists, but just doesn't want to help because <whateverwhatever into perpetuity>. Lots of us are well informed people who take action in the real world to improve real world outcomes.These troops here are already rallied, as it were. It appears to be believers who are standing in the way of progress.

If you really want us to agree that god beliefs are good things, well honey, actions speak louder than words.

I simply can't make it any more clear than that.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 11:02:35 AM by Jag »
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #436 on: April 21, 2013, 12:42:55 PM »
Hey, Junebug, what's the illuminati, and are they real?

The only time I heard of illuminati is from the movie "The Davinci Code."

hmm. One more question: have you ever been prescribed medication for mental illness of any kind?

I am aware of the stigma concerning mental illness, and it is completely understandable if you choose not to respond to that question. However, I think it may have some bearing on this discussion.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #437 on: April 21, 2013, 02:38:07 PM »
junebug, here's something to consider.  Let's take two people who do the same thing - say, feeding a starving child, for the sake of argument.  One does it because they believe that's what their god wants them to do, and the other does it because they want to ease the suffering of a fellow human being.  Which one was morally superior?

There's no 'gotcha' in this question.  I simply want to know what you think the answer is.  Once you've answered, I'll elaborate.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #438 on: April 21, 2013, 04:25:12 PM »
I would really like to get past this part into how we can together help our world with our beliefs intact.  We are all good people here and I simply wanted you all to see that not all believers are the same.
Why are beliefs so important to you, or at least important enough to want to keep them intact?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #439 on: April 22, 2013, 03:36:31 AM »
Can you spell it out for me please?  Does belief in god change a person, yes or no? 
Will people behave the same way whether or not they believe in god, yes or no?

Yes it can.

Yes.

Those two sentences appear to be mutually exclusive.  Can you explain how belief in god changes a person - but that they will still stay the same?

Your get-out seems to hinge on the "it can" part.  Your get out is that some people will believe in god, but not change their attitudes as a result.  But then, you are saying that belief in god can have NO effect on a person at all.  It is therefore hardly correct to say that "belief in god is not a bad thing" if it is possible to believe, but continue to be a bad person.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #440 on: April 22, 2013, 05:44:44 AM »

Gawd,

We are supposed to help the helpless. Not by throwing money at it but really get rid of poverty. Get rid of greed.

Well, that kid isnt going to live (truthfully he's probably dead by now) to see the end of greed, or poverty. He may have been the person to help with that problem had he EVER been given a chance at life... this is our fault as humans. But your god couldve snuck him a sandwich when no one was looking.  Coulda did the fish and bread trick that he did before (you can find that story in the bible).

Also, it is impossible to end poverty... why? Because Jesus said the poor would always be with us. So, since he said it, it either has to happen OR Jesus is a liar. Which is it JB; Jesus is a liar, or he forced poverty onto people by speaking it into existence?

This child needs a home, Love, and food to be saved. This child obviously has no one. He could also be referring to orphans and disabled.  I am also sure that He said to take care of them right after. There are several Christian Ministries around the world feeding and sheltering children such as this one. 100's of millions donated, Bill Gates and other Atheists and there's still these pictures. How, How in the world? It has become a business, that's how. If we ever get all those kids fed, they don't get any more moolah!! That's why I continuously say you have to get rid of GREED. Greed is the enemy not belief. 

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #441 on: April 22, 2013, 05:52:57 AM »
Hey, Junebug, what's the illuminati, and are they real?

The only time I heard of illuminati is from the movie "The Davinci Code."

hmm. One more question: have you ever been prescribed medication for mental illness of any kind?

I am aware of the stigma concerning mental illness, and it is completely understandable if you choose not to respond to that question. However, I think it may have some bearing on this discussion.

So now I see where the mods get it from. Your sarcasm is more successful at making you look bad. Perfect example of how bad leadership can spoil the whole bunch. How is what you're doing here ANY different from what you claim to be against. Talk about a double standard!

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #442 on: April 22, 2013, 06:10:17 AM »
You're reading too much into the formatting if you think the bolded words indicate anger - they are meant to draw attention to specific words.


Which stems from god beliefs (with a few exceptions such as Buddhism). Religions causes people to act "in the name of God". See the connection between them yet?


jb, you  don't even see that you are unwittingly making my point for me.

You're still sitting here waiting for someone else to step up and lead. So are almost all the other people on the planet, as near as I can tell. And far, far too many of them do nothing because they are waiting for someone else. And far, far too many of them believe  that the someone else they're waiting for is God.

In your case its apparently up to Obama to "bring us all together" even though "we're more divided than ever!(you won't convince me it has nothing to do with skin color and money)". So, what? You gonna wait another four years for it to be someone else's turn to do a job that is impossible by your own observation*? <---*emphasis to point out double standard you employed right there.

What are you waiting FOR jb? What are you and all the other believers waiting for? I don't give a sh!t if you pray, but then get up off your knees and do something of practical use - you claim repeatedly that you don't think God is going to intervene, so just what in the hell are you waiting for? How is your claimed purpose (demonstrating that god beliefs are good) best served by arguing with us about whether or not god exists, but just doesn't want to help because <whateverwhatever into perpetuity>. Lots of us are well informed people who take action in the real world to improve real world outcomes.These troops here are already rallied, as it were. It appears to be believers who are standing in the way of progress.

If you really want us to agree that god beliefs are good things, well honey, actions speak louder than words.

I simply can't make it any more clear than that.

I am doing what I can Jag. I mean think about what you're saying. I don't possess the right anything to be taken seriously as a local candidate much less President of the United States. I have changed the minds of my family, and trust me that has not been an easy task, and others that I have encountered in my life. So Forgive if I'm offended by that remark. There are a lot of believers out there doing, not waiting on prayer. Perhaps your judgement has been clouded by your hatred for belief. Do you really need some links to see all the action, if so I'll get you some. You're so focused on seeing belief as bad that you don't see the good.

I'm going to say here again that GREED is the enemy not BELIEF. Greed is what manipulates religion for profit. Greed causes poverty, poverty causes desperation, desperation causes violence. Greed is the enemy.

GREED IS A BAD THING.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #443 on: April 22, 2013, 06:18:30 AM »
"GREED IS  ABAD THING"

Then there's a lot to change about US politics, June!
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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #444 on: April 22, 2013, 06:23:20 AM »
I would really like to get past this part into how we can together help our world with our beliefs intact.  We are all good people here and I simply wanted you all to see that not all believers are the same.
Why are beliefs so important to you, or at least important enough to want to keep them intact?

I am preparing my spirit for the afterlife. I want to know why I am here. You know the reason for it all. I have said before I would give it up if I thought it would save mankind but I believe quite the opposite. I believe mankind needs to realize we need to evolve our knowledge of God and that we can't rely on 1 book to do that. That our chances of understanding will be increased 100 times if we combine our energy instead of divide it with religions.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #445 on: April 22, 2013, 06:28:51 AM »
"GREED IS  ABAD THING"

Then there's a lot to change about US politics, June!

Hey Wheels, good morning!

You Got That Right! Sure Got That Right!

I'm going to agree with suggestions that I've heard on Link and FSTV. We need to start with campaign contributions. This is where it all begins!

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #446 on: April 22, 2013, 06:36:03 AM »
"GREED IS  ABAD THING"

Then there's a lot to change about US politics, June!

We need to start with campaign contributions. This is where it all begins!

Yeah?  But:

.....It has become a business, that's how. If we ever get all those kids fed, they don't get any more moolah!! That's why I continuously say you have to get rid of GREED. Greed is the enemy not belief. 

If we ever get "those guys" elected, they don't get any more moolah.....your solution to the problems involved in giving money appear to be ..... giving money to someone else.  Have I missed something? 

I've got money to give.  What makes the people you want me to give money to a better option than the people you DON'T want me to give money to?  What makes one a better option than the other?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #447 on: April 22, 2013, 06:50:58 AM »
Can you spell it out for me please?  Does belief in god change a person, yes or no? 
Will people behave the same way whether or not they believe in god, yes or no?

Yes it can.

Yes.



Those two sentences appear to be mutually exclusive.  Can you explain how belief in god changes a person - but that they will still stay the same?

Your get-out seems to hinge on the "it can" part.  Your get out is that some people will believe in god, but not change their attitudes as a result.  But then, you are saying that belief in god can have NO effect on a person at all.  It is therefore hardly correct to say that "belief in god is not a bad thing" if it is possible to believe, but continue to be a bad person.

Nobody's trying to get out. It's an honest answer. It can. Believing doesn't make you good or bad, that's why I keep saying it's not the belief. It's like anything else you own, you chose what to do with it. Some people chose to do good, some bad. Even the ones that chose bad do so out of fear, ie sacrifice, condemning people to hell,protesting at the funerals of dead soldiers,etc., all out of fear for their own soul.  Taking belief away will just make them more afraid, more desperate, and the worst of all hopeless as well as it's an impossible task. So shall we say FEAR is a bad thing. 

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #448 on: April 22, 2013, 06:56:07 AM »
Agreed JB, fear is a bad thing but its still no reason to make stuff up.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #449 on: April 22, 2013, 06:56:20 AM »
Nobody's trying to get out. It's an honest answer. It can. Believing doesn't make you good or bad, that's why I keep saying it's not the belief. It's like anything else you own, you chose what to do with it. Some people chose to do good, some bad. Even the ones that chose bad do so out of fear, ie sacrifice, condemning people to hell,protesting at the funerals of dead soldiers,etc., all out of fear for their own soul.  Taking belief away will just make them more afraid, more desperate, and the worst of all hopeless as well as it's an impossible task. So shall we say FEAR is a bad thing.

Then the statement "believing in god is not a bad thing" is meaningless, given what you have said here.

"Believing doesn't make you good or bad."
"Some people chose to do good, some bad."

Means that the two statements:
.     Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
and
.     Believing in God is Not a Good Thing
are equivalent.  One could summarise them by saying that
.     Believing in God is Neither a Good nor a Bad Thing - it is an Irrelevant Thing
at least according to what you have said here.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #450 on: April 22, 2013, 06:59:05 AM »
"GREED IS  ABAD THING"

Then there's a lot to change about US politics, June!

We need to start with campaign contributions. This is where it all begins!

Yeah?  But:

.....It has become a business, that's how. If we ever get all those kids fed, they don't get any more moolah!! That's why I continuously say you have to get rid of GREED. Greed is the enemy not belief. 

If we ever get "those guys" elected, they don't get any more moolah.....your solution to the problems involved in giving money appear to be ..... giving money to someone else.  Have I missed something? 

I've got money to give.  What makes the people you want me to give money to a better option than the people you DON'T want me to give money to?  What makes one a better option than the other?

No that's not what I'm saying at all. Try reading it again. I say we fix nothing with money, money is the problem.  That to get politicians to start voting for "we the people" that there needs to be an end put to campaign contributions or any of the "fringe benefits" offered by lobbyist.

Who have I asked you to give money to?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #451 on: April 22, 2013, 07:03:15 AM »
No that's not what I'm saying at all. Try reading it again. I say we fix nothing with money, money is the problem.  That to get politicians to start voting for "we the people" that there needs to be an end put to campaign contributions or any of the "fringe benefits" offered by lobbyist.

Who have I asked you to give money to?

Many apologies - I misunderstood.  I thought you wanted us to give campaign contributions to a particular party that you thought would lead us forward (as you hoped Obama would do).

Give no money to anyone - gotcha.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #452 on: April 22, 2013, 07:04:50 AM »
Nobody's trying to get out. It's an honest answer. It can. Believing doesn't make you good or bad, that's why I keep saying it's not the belief. It's like anything else you own, you chose what to do with it. Some people chose to do good, some bad. Even the ones that chose bad do so out of fear, ie sacrifice, condemning people to hell,protesting at the funerals of dead soldiers,etc., all out of fear for their own soul.  Taking belief away will just make them more afraid, more desperate, and the worst of all hopeless as well as it's an impossible task. So shall we say FEAR is a bad thing.

Then the statement "believing in god is not a bad thing" is meaningless, given what you have said here.

"Believing doesn't make you good or bad."
"Some people chose to do good, some bad."

Means that the two statements:
.     Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
and
.     Believing in God is Not a Good Thing
are equivalent.  One could summarise them by saying that
.     Believing in God is Neither a Good nor a Bad Thing - it is an Irrelevant Thing
at least according to what you have said here.

I don't think it's meaningless at all. To say it's neither good or bad is a very progressive idea. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #453 on: April 22, 2013, 07:09:53 AM »
No that's not what I'm saying at all. Try reading it again. I say we fix nothing with money, money is the problem.  That to get politicians to start voting for "we the people" that there needs to be an end put to campaign contributions or any of the "fringe benefits" offered by lobbyist.

Who have I asked you to give money to?

Many apologies - I misunderstood.  I thought you wanted us to give campaign contributions to a particular party that you thought would lead us forward (as you hoped Obama would do).

Give no money to anyone - gotcha.

Anf, I don't care what you do with your money. I'm just trying to make the point that it's not a cure.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #454 on: April 22, 2013, 07:24:51 AM »
I love to call God; Master of the Universe.
Ah, one of The Masters of the UniverseWiki and just as real! Is God American?

Of course God doesn't love us all:


He hates African children but He helps you find your car-keys...
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #455 on: April 22, 2013, 07:41:01 AM »
I don't think it's meaningless at all. To say it's neither good or bad is a very progressive idea.

Progressive? In what way?
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #456 on: April 22, 2013, 07:46:15 AM »
I don't think it's meaningless at all. To say it's neither good or bad is a very progressive idea.

Progressive? In what way?

That at the beginning I only saw good, Anf saw only bad, now we have progressed our thinking. We can both see Good and bad.


I love to call God; Master of the Universe.
Ah, one of The Masters of the UniverseWiki and just as real! Is God American?

Of course God doesn't love us all:


He hates African children but He helps you find your car-keys...

God has never helped me find my car keys. You show me these pictures and I say to you I see mankind's failure to God.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #457 on: April 22, 2013, 07:47:10 AM »
Gotta go for now. Have a Wonderful Day!!! :)
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #458 on: April 22, 2013, 08:10:39 AM »

Then the statement "believing in god is not a bad thing" is meaningless, given what you have said here.

"Believing doesn't make you good or bad."
"Some people chose to do good, some bad."


Means that the two statements:
.     Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
and
.     Believing in God is Not a Good Thing
are equivalent.  One could summarise them by saying that
.     Believing in God is Neither a Good nor a Bad Thing - it is an Irrelevant Thing
at least according to what you have said here.

I don't think it's meaningless at all. To say it's neither good or bad is a very progressive idea.

It is a meaningless statement because those two red statements MAKE it meaningless.  You've said that belief has no effect on what a person does - hence belief is meaningless.  Not just on god, no matter WHAT the belief is, it is meaningless.  If "belief in the Great Green Arkleseizure" has zero effect on a person, that whether or not they believe is a matter of complete indifference - and hence there can be no value statements made about that belief.

It would be progressive if I actually agreed with it - I don't.  I strongly disagree with the statement.  What I was trying to get you to grasp is that if you believe - as you have stated here - that "Believing doesn't make you good or bad", that believing does not change a person.....then the statement you made in the OP has no validity, makes no sense, is not worth making.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online jdawg70

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #459 on: April 22, 2013, 09:39:48 AM »
Why are beliefs so important to you, or at least important enough to want to keep them intact?

I am preparing my spirit for the afterlife. I want to know why I am here. You know the reason for it all. I have said before I would give it up if I thought it would save mankind but I believe quite the opposite. I believe mankind needs to realize we need to evolve our knowledge of God and that we can't rely on 1 book to do that. That our chances of understanding will be increased 100 times if we combine our energy instead of divide it with religions.
And if god does not exist, how beneficial is that use of energy in evolving our knowledge of god?

What I take issue with is when you say that you want to keep your beliefs intact.  Wouldn't it be better to, rather than keeping beliefs intact, striving to assure what you believe is true?  It just seems a little backwards to me is all; if I have belief X, do I try to hold onto belief X, or do I try to continually determine if it makes sense to have belief X?

I think I finally have an answer to your original question based on this.  If 'believing in god' in anyway enables you to ascribe an inherent virtue in belief then it is a bad thing.  There is virtue in being able to believe things; there is virtue in allowing others to have other beliefs; there is no virtue in a belief itself.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #460 on: April 22, 2013, 09:43:59 AM »
God has never helped me find my car keys. You show me these pictures and I say to you I see mankind's failure to God.
Just so we're clear -

If I'm standing next to a woman being raped and I just sit there browsing the interweb on my phone, you would take no ethical issue with me?  What is the lesson taught in the story of the Good Samaritan - that the priest and the Levite had no moral obligation and it was totally cool for them to walk by a dying man?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #461 on: April 22, 2013, 01:11:10 PM »
I am doing what I can Jag. I mean think about what you're saying.
I AM thinking about what I'm saying jb, and all indication are that you are not. I've put several hours of my time into researching and writing the posts I've contributed to this topic. And you appear to have dismissed almost all of it with  "boohoo, people are mean but it's not their beliefs that make it so" - in what other circumstances would you try to say something so blatantly stupid? What is it you think motivates people, if not their beliefs? The bolded statements are for emphasis jb, not anger. And the last is a question I actually want you to answer please.

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I don't possess the right anything to be taken seriously as a local candidate much less President of the United States.
I'm not sure what you are trying to suggest here. but I'm going to go with - so what? You don't need to be the president to get out of the way of progress on human rights, and you will be taken as seriously as your ideas merit. If everyone contributes baby-step sized contributions, that's still progress.

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I have changed the minds of my family, and trust me that has not been an easy task, and others that I have encountered in my life. So Forgive if I'm offended by that remark.
If you are offended, you missed my point entirely. Again.

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There are a lot of believers out there doing, not waiting on prayer. Perhaps your judgement has been clouded by your hatred for belief. Do you really need some links to see all the action, if so I'll get you some. You're so focused on seeing belief as bad that you don't see the good.
There are also a lot of non-believers out there, not waiting on anything, myself among them. I'm well aware that believers do good things, I do volunteer work with lots of them. I don't have anything against believers - provided that their beliefs are not being imposed on other people. You will do well to learn to distinguish anger at situations caused by people and their mistaken ideas and anger at individuals. I freely admit to the first, and reject the second, at least in relation to this topic. You are not "hearing" me; you are filtering my words to fit your ideas, not the other way around.

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I'm going to say here again that GREED is the enemy...

Qualified agreement, as already explained repeatedly.

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... not BELIEF. Greed is what manipulates religion for profit. Greed causes poverty, poverty causes desperation, desperation causes violence. Greed is the enemy.
Greed would have far less influence if believers didn't keep getting the message that they are the special-est special snowflake of all, especially since they all seem to think that the special-est special snowflake label only applies to others who share their exact same beliefs.

If you truly fail to grasp basic human nature so completely, I really wonder how you have survived to adulthood. The depths of your naivete are astounding.

Quote
GREED IS A BAD THING.

Well, duh.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 01:13:22 PM by Jag »
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #462 on: April 22, 2013, 01:29:23 PM »
God has never helped me find my car keys. You show me these pictures and I say to you I see mankind's failure to God.

I have heard this callous argument 1000s of times. "Ooo God loves everyone. He wouldn't let African children die." But He does, doesn't he? Parts of Africa have more christians per head than the USA - but God still hates them.

So what does God do? I mean, what's his purpose? Why, despite prayers of crying mothers, do children die like this in their hundreds? And you believe in that god?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #463 on: April 22, 2013, 01:34:11 PM »
Yes, the world appears exactly as it would if there were no god.
God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups