Author Topic: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing  (Read 45186 times)

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Offline junebug72

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Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« on: April 06, 2013, 02:19:10 PM »
Hello,

For those of you that don't know me, I'm junebug,believer. Nice to meet you. I came to this forum a few months back, don't know why, I typed God in my search engine and this website popped up. So I thought while I'm here I would share my God story with you.  Not to start a new religion but to just simply share.

As long as there is a shred of hope that life after death exists, this is the path I must follow, I long to see my mother again in a land without pain,fear, or sadness.

Do we not owe it to ourselves to give any option that includes eternal existence every opportunity before dismissing it. I owe it to myself I know.
 
Yes I know that most people here have done just that, but until you've heard every story, mine included, how can the investigation be over.

My Momma always said,"You draw more bees with sugar than vinegar!" :laugh:

There are a lot of "good" people believing in God, will you condemn the righteous along with the unrighteous. Sounds familiar I know, seems appropriate here to remind you that it is what, I thought, you all were suppose to be against, unfairness.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2013, 02:33:32 PM »
To quote House[1]:
Quote from: House
No, of course not. On the other hand, it is communicable and it kills a lot of people.
 1. He was referring to faith, but belief in deities requires faith, so I think it applies here as well.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline shnozzola

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2013, 02:36:59 PM »
   Junebug, IMO, you seem to be much more open to arguments than some theists.  You're beliefs are yours, and who am I to know the truth.  I joined this site based more on the danger of Taliban type beliefs, that inspire people to kill people to spread their beliefs. It has become important to me to try and stop Westboro Baptist Christian types, or Kenyan fundamentalist Christians that are eager to actually light presumed witches on fire.  These religious people are dangerously sincere, and scare me enough to argue with theists.  I am not as smart or well versed as many of the atheists here, but I am learning.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 02:39:30 PM by shnozzola »
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Offline sun_king

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2013, 02:40:18 PM »
<snip>
Yes I know that most people here have done just that, but until you've heard every story, mine included, how can the investigation be over.

You are aware that this goes both ways, right? How many different gods did you learn about before you chose to believe in the one you do? Did you hear every story?

Preach not, practice not!
Quote
My Momma always said,"You draw more bees with sugar than vinegar!" :laugh:
Are you sure this is in your favor?
Quote
There are a lot of "good" people believing in God, will you condemn the righteous along with the unrighteous.
In general no, we don't. But when someone starts putting it the other way around "Believing in god makes people good" -- we may have a few words to say.

Offline anthony_retford

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 03:51:30 PM »
I am waiting to hear your God story. What happened to you to cause you to cling to a shred of evidence so you can believe you can see your mother again? I saw no mention of your father so maybe you don't want to see him again. When I hear back I will write to you more.
People are 'erroneously confident' in their knowledge and underestimate the odds that their information or beliefs will be proved wrong. They tend to seek additional information in ways that confirm what they already believe.
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2013, 07:50:37 PM »
Well, I think this is a little more revealing.

I am sorry to hear about your mother JB. Wish there was something I could say that would help. I havent had to deal with the death of a close loved one yet, and I a definitely not looking forward to it. I lost my maternal grandmother maybe a decade ago but I didnt know my grandmother that well because she had been mentally ill since before my birth. So while it hurt, it wasnt like I lost someone I knew intimately because that person was long gone. My paternal grandmother died when he was 16, about 4 years before I was born. From what I understand she was quite the character. I'd like to have been able to know my grandmothers and I wish there was a way to.

About a year ago one of my good friends lost his mother and I'd say that was the closest Ive been to a close loss because I felt his pain in losing his mother and I was extremely choked up and sad, and I cried at her services... which is something I didnt do at my grandmother's funeral so I can only imagine if it were mine.

So the prospect of life after death is appealing, and I understand that. However appealing it may be, it doesnt factor into its plausibility. Personally, what I have done is spend more time appreciating the loved ones I still have time with, so that when the inevitable happens and all the crying is done, I can look back or they can look back and smile at the good times.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2013, 08:30:42 PM »
You know Junebug, I have an aunt who genuinely believes that her mother and my grandmother are standing in heaven in front of some celestial stove, stirring the sauce and getting ready to serve up a great feast to my grandpa and my uncle and other long dead loved ones, who are sitting in the next celestial room, playing cards or watching the ballgame. 

She assured me after my father's death that he was there too.  My sweet father was always an outcast in my mom's extended family household.  So if he is there, sitting with the men in some celestial lazy-boy, I have to imagine him reading Bertrand Russell while the other men watch the game.  My aunt, I assume, would put my mom in the kitchen with the other women, in a subservient role she only took on when she was in her parents' home.  I cannot imagine an uglier fate for my smart, competent, trend setting mom, who broke so many rules in life, but who fell into a traditional role in her parents' home. 

My aunt imagines that the Sunday suppers of her youth are going on for all eternity in the afterlife, and that some day, she will join the feast with her loved ones. 

She finds comfort in this belief.  And as much as I would enjoy being reunited with all of these people who I loved during their lifetimes, I find my aunt's images more than a little disturbing.  But I can't deny that I envy the comfort she must find when she imagines this eternity.  I miss my mom and my dad so much.  I would love to believe that they are waiting for me, looking down on me and my daughter, watching her grow, and preparing for all of us to spend an eternity together. 

But I don't believe it.  The impact that my beautiful, amazing parents had on planet earth continues to reverberate.  Sometimes I see my daughter make a gesture that looks just like my dad's common gestures.  She never knew my sweet gentle father.  And even though I don't recognize those gestures as my own, they must come from me. 

My beliefs, my temperament, my passions and motivations, so much of who I am is a continuation of the people who loved me and raised me.  And although my sweet daughter is not genetically related to any of us, I know that my parents' influences live on through her.  She knows that I grew up in a household with two people who loved books, but who treated those beloved books differently.  My father read straight backed at a desk, never bending the books, leaving each one brand new.  My mother curled up with books and spilled food on them and folded the pages over rather than using a book mark.  When my daughter touches a book gently, with reverence, she says she is being like my father.  When she bends the page down on a book she is reading in bed, she says she is being like my mother.  They live on.  In so many ways.

I find comfort thinking about the ways they live on.  Their impact is so wide spread.  So many lives are richer because my beautiful parents lived their lives here on planet earth, during a time of change and upheaval. 

And I also find comfort thinking about the nature of the universe.  I've posted this video several times before I think, and I'll probably post it again.  But when Neil deGrasse Tyson speaks about time and space and matter, I share his feeling of connection with the universe and time and space.   



Offline Tonus

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2013, 10:28:41 PM »
As long as there is a shred of hope that life after death exists, this is the path I must follow, I long to see my mother again in a land without pain,fear, or sadness.

This is the source of many people's search for god, the understandable pain of loss.  It is an emotional reaction, and a desire borne of a wish to have things as they once were.  And anyone who has seen suffering, either up close or through reports of it, longs for a better world where these things do not happen.  I think that this is why religion has survived and even thrived over the past few centuries.  As science progressed and knowledge of the world grew, religion went from being something that explained the world around us, to something that answered the questions that still remained.  Why do we suffer?  Why do we age and die?  And ultimately, what purpose does our existence serve?  To come up with an answer that did not provide a happy ending was unacceptable, and religion was already there in a form that required some modification to bring it out of the past ages when our knowledge was so limited.  So that's what it became, and that's what its primary purpose is today-- to answer the questions that torment some people and bring them comfort.

Ironically, I think that one of the reasons that I am at peace with myself is because of religion.  Having left religion and god behind once I realized that they weren't the truth, I have never felt that fear of death, or concerns over whether life has a purpose or meaning.  It has the meaning that I give to it, and it has the purpose that I find in it.  Instead of being burdened by those thoughts, I find that I feel very free.

Offline Dante

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 12:14:44 AM »
Her eyes are the color of cool water reflecting warm sunshine, of blooming meadows giving way to snowcapped mountains, of supernoavae and stardust. They are the color of the universe, and they are beautiful.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline dloubet

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 05:50:07 AM »
junebug72 wrote:
Quote
There are a lot of "good" people believing in God, will you condemn the righteous along with the unrighteous. Sounds familiar I know, seems appropriate here to remind you that it is what, I thought, you all were suppose to be against, unfairness.

If people are good, they are good despite believing in a god. The problem is that the righteous enable the unrighteous. They swell their numbers, and the unrighteous are the loudest.
Denis Loubet

Offline Seppuku

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2013, 07:05:20 AM »
To be honest JB, I think it depends.

In many cases it can and has been a bad thing. Yet, there are many God-believers out there who don't do people harm and are not harmed by their beliefs and in some instances it seems they find something reconciling about faith, that perhaps helps them gain confidence or help them get their head straight. People generally put down such positives things to God and Him giving them strength, I don't, I put it down to people's individual strength. Of course, it may bring hope, it may not necessarily bring truth. I say one of the hard things about being somebody who doesn't believe in life after death is dealing with the death of a loved one. But I've found my way of dealing with it, however, I'm not about to criticise somebody's way of reasoning behind how they're dealing with grievance (I would rather them deal with it and get their head straight rather than to be right). But I don't think faith in God is a necessity, I think many people have proven you don't need a religion[1], of course, I have no quarrel with the religious so long as they are doing no harm based on their faith.

For me, the real outrage is when religion tries to affect my life and the lives of others, when it tries to get involved in politics, when it promotes and acts on various intolerances, it's when people are discriminated against, even violently, it's when the dark side of the bible is on display and people acting on its more violent and wrathful laws. It's not just the bible but the Koran and other holy texts. It's an outrage for the innocent lives lost, the innocents who have suffered because somebody felt it was the righteous thing to do in the name of their Lord. I also am outraged when people try to defend such outrageous acts or sweep it under the rug because they don't want to accept the darker side to their own religion or people who give them special privelidges to be bigoted because it's down to their religious beliefs and they're only defending their religion. Which I think is unfair, for example, there's a Muslim at work who disagrees with homosexuality and isn't fan of it, he also think it's wrong to kill and eat animals, but at no point does he force it on anybody nor does he act in a homophobic fashion, we've got a gay guy on our team and they get along great. So, I have no problem with the guy, he knows what it means to be tolerant. Tolerance isn't agreeing with somebody, it's accepting them when you don't agree with them (if you agree, then what exactly are you tolerating?) I'm not giving him special privelidges because he's religious, he's got my tolerance for not being intolerant or for doing anything to harm anybody else.


There's one good thing in the Catholic Church, it's confession, whilst the damage is for some that it means they may feel cleansed and read to recommit a sin and for others I feel it can be a great way of getting a weight off of your shoulders, because you're going in to not be judged and you can speak of what you feel guilty or bad about to somebody who isn't going to make you feel bad for it. At least this was the inspiration for the organisation called 'Samaritans', which is a secular service started by a priest who could see an advantage to confession some people may not have access to. They get to speak to a volunteer who isn't going to judge them, but allow people the proper place to clear their minds. This organisation helps a lot of people, particularly potential suicide cases. Of course, it's also proof you don't need to lean on faith to straighten yourself out, to make sense of things and to bring yourself to happier and more confident state. Still, I recognise in some instances, it's where the church can potentially help somebody. As much as I dislike the church, I feel I should still be able to recognise its qualities as well as its pitfalls.
 1. Which I feel is the message behind such slogans as "You don't need God to be good" as opposed to suggesting people shouldn't believe in God, which people on the other side seem to suggest.
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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2013, 09:39:40 AM »
Quite right, Seppuke. The real problems with religion is when is gets in the way of nonbelievers - something it has no need to do but somehow manages anyway.

For example, if a religion has rules about gay people, abortions, family planning - then fine, I'm sure the members of that religion will follow the teaching, What is wrong is for them to try and get their religious rules incorporated into the law the nonreligious have to keep.It is entirely the affair of the nonreligious whether they want these things or not. No religion should force its teachings on those who do not accept that religion.

Secondly, I, personally, object to the money religion gets from the state, In the UK where I live, religions are charities by definition and pay no tax. Then they are allowed to claim back the income tax paid by those who support them as well. This amounts to a lot of tax not paid. Then religions run schools, in some cases they have admitted the main reason is to try and indoctrinate the children who come to the schools. Yet a government 20 years ago stopped making the religions pay something towards running the schools so they get exceptions from  various laws  allow them to choose staff and ignore all the rules of fair treatment in employment.

That's what I really object to with religions.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline shnozzola

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2013, 10:49:03 AM »
Junebug, these actions by the Taliban (read believers) yesterday are precisely, sadly, why theism has become so dangerous.  Precisely why websites where atheists can safely argue against theists are so important.

Quote
ISTANBUL (AP) — U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on Sunday railed against the "cowardly" terrorists responsible for the attack that killed five Americans in Afghanistan, including a "selfless, idealistic" young diplomat on a mission to donate books to students.



Kerry, in Turkey for meetings with the country's leaders, said 25-year-old Anne Smedinghoff of Illinois had assisted him when he visited Afghanistan two weeks ago. She served as his control officer, an honor often bestowed on up-and-coming members of the U.S. foreign service.

At a news conference with Turkey's foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, Kerry described Smedinghoff as "a selfless, idealistic woman who woke up yesterday morning and set out to bring textbooks to school children, to bring them knowledge."

"Anne and those with her," Kerry said, "were attacked by the Taliban terrorists who woke up that day not with a mission to educate or to help, but with a mission to destroy. A brave American was determined to brighten the light of learning through books, written in the native tongue of the students she had never met, whom she felt it incumbent to help."

Kerry said Smedinghoff "was met by a cowardly terrorist determined to bring darkness and death to total strangers. These are the challenges that our citizens face, not just in Afghanistan but in many dangerous parts of the world — where a nihilism, an empty approach, is willing to take life rather than give it."
http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20130407/Kerry-Afghanistan/

Why should the anger of atheists be surprising?

« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 10:51:54 AM by shnozzola »
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Offline Betelnut

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2013, 07:03:41 PM »
Yes, there are many wonderful believers whose lives have enriched this earth.  But I still feel and believe that irrational belief is, ultimately, dangerous and does more harm than good.

Offline Petey

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2013, 08:10:30 AM »
Not to start a new religion but to just simply share.

FYI, this would be one of the worst places possible to try starting a new religion.  ;)

As long as there is a shred of hope that life after death exists, this is the path I must follow, I long to see my mother again in a land without pain,fear, or sadness.

Do we not owe it to ourselves to give any option that includes eternal existence every opportunity before dismissing it. I owe it to myself I know.
 
Yes I know that most people here have done just that, but until you've heard every story, mine included, how can the investigation be over.

Yes, many of us have done just that.  Repeatedly.  After a while, you begin to realize that stories are just that.  We're looking for observable, repeatable, falsifiable evidence.  This type of evidence permeates our lives in every facet imaginable, yet fails to show itself in regard to existence after death.  Curious.
He never pays attention, he always knows the answer, and he can never tell you how he knows. We can't keep thrashing him. He is a bad example to the other pupils. There's no educating a smart boy.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2013, 08:51:15 AM »
if a religion has rules about gay people, abortions, family planning - then fine, I'm sure the members of that religion will follow the teaching, What is wrong is for them to try and get their religious rules incorporated into the law the non-religious have to keep.
I would ask non-Catholics to imagine that the Catholic Church could say what sort of services you could have and how your places of worship should be decorated. Religions influence governments and thus I get what the religious say I should have. The religious make their decisions on the basis of old folk tales filled with superstition and magic, not by being rational.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2013, 09:45:15 AM »
You know Junebug, I have an aunt who genuinely believes that her mother and my grandmother are standing in heaven in front of some celestial stove, stirring the sauce and getting ready to serve up a great feast to my grandpa and my uncle and other long dead loved ones, who are sitting in the next celestial room, playing cards or watching the ballgame. 

I think this is where believers in that kind of an afterlife show an appalling lack of thought.  Because how many generations are they planning on fitting into that back room?  I've traced my family tree back to the 1700s, and already I'm looking at ten generations back.  That's over a THOUSAND relatives to cook for, for starters.  The ones who died in the 17 and 1800s won't be watching a ball game, they'll be trying to burn the Demon Box that shows pictures.

Will all thousand of them get along?  Will they all WANT to live together in one big old house?  And remember that the 500-odd great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents will also be the 8GGPs of umpteen other families - that's thousands more "family" to fit round the table.  Aunt Bessie is going to have to cook a whoooooole lot of her famous mashed pertaters!

And, as you've said, what about the folks that don't get along?  With a couple thousand people invited to dinner, odds are that there will be a few hundred at least who have the hump with someone else.  If son doesn't get on with grandfather, who does father sit next too?  Bad enough at a small family dinner - but what if sitting round that one table you've got the Hatfields AND the McCoys AND the Montagues AND the Capulets....AND the Borgias as well?  With a couple hundred 8GGPs, that's quite possible!

Which makes the questions like
As long as there is a shred of hope that life after death exists, this is the path I must follow, I long to see my mother again in a land without pain,fear, or sadness.

Do we not owe it to ourselves to give any option that includes eternal existence every opportunity before dismissing it. I owe it to myself I know.
so laughable.  The afterlife, if there is one, could be horrific, an eternal dinner party with relatives you hate.  You could be forced to see people who like you (but who you can't stand) for ever.  Unless you can actually say, for definite, that there IS an afterlife, and be able to say with certainty that THIS is what it is like, then it is quite as reasonable to shy away from anything that may offer an afterlife as it would be to embrace it.

Or, to put it another way, if the mystery box could contain a scorpion, or a thousand dollars - and the only information you have is "what you would like to be in there", then it is JUST as sensible to keep your hands well away as it is to shove them blindly in.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online wheels5894

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2013, 11:20:07 AM »

My worst thought for an afterlife is that, in eternity, the is no passing of time. So, I arrive at 5 mins before the wine and dinner is served but then it is 5 mins too early - for ever!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 11:21:43 AM by wheels5894 »
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2013, 06:48:04 PM »

My worst thought for an afterlife is that, in eternity, the is no passing of time. So, I arrive at 5 mins before the wine and dinner is served but then it is 5 mins too early - for ever!
On the plus side, without any sort of gradient available for processing thought, you won't notice :)
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2013, 04:03:50 AM »
If you really want to see a struggle with belief and faith check out the posts and blogs directed at and about the recent suicide of Matthew Warren, the son of Paster Rick Warren.   Talk about seeing the extremes of the best and the worst come out in people...   I don't shock easily but I actually "dropped my mouth" at some of the hateful comments some people had the balls to spew at a man who just lost his son.  There has also been an outpouring of love and support.  For me it just reinforces my ongoing fury at the lack of help available for the mentally ill.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2013, 10:14:25 AM »
To quote House[1]:
Quote from: House
No, of course not. On the other hand, it is communicable and it kills a lot of people.
 1. He was referring to faith, but belief in deities requires faith, so I think it applies here as well.

hI ONE, Faith don't kill people, people kill people. If there is 1 point that I can make on this forum it would be this; practicing Christians,Muslims, and Judaism, with an inaccurate understanding of God can be dangerous. The solution IMO is not to take God away, but rather, by example show them God's true purpose,Love. Love is the key.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2013, 10:35:04 AM »
   Junebug, IMO, you seem to be much more open to arguments than some theists.  You're beliefs are yours, and who am I to know the truth.  I joined this site based more on the danger of Taliban type beliefs, that inspire people to kill people to spread their beliefs. It has become important to me to try and stop Westboro Baptist Christian types, or Kenyan fundamentalist Christians that are eager to actually light presumed witches on fire.  These religious people are dangerously sincere, and scare me enough to argue with theists.  I am not as smart or well versed as many of the atheists here, but I am learning.

Hi Shno,

Thanks for your thoughts. I know the taliban scares me too. I just don't think killing God is the way to go about it. Throughout history when the Church evolved it was due to other God believers that pointed out the "wickedness" of their actions. The first one of these people being Jesus. He was very much against the Robes, the judging, and trading at the Temple. Jesus made belief/faith simple. It's not complicated,Believe in God and Love one Another. That's all it takes to get into Heaven, that simple! A lot of the false doctrine involves the dangers of belief. Throughout history believing or not believing could get you dead! Still going on today in the 21st century. Unbelievable! The other problem is greed. Mankind steadily uses God to put $$$ in his pocket,i.e Jim Baker etc.... Therefor, religion has been twisted to suit the needs of politicians and greedy preachers and what that has done is basically exclude God from religion.


You seem very bright to me.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Dante

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2013, 10:41:03 AM »
Jesus made belief/faith simple. It's not complicated,Believe in God and Love one Another. That's all it takes to get into Heaven, that simple!

Why does faith have equal importance to love, JB?
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2013, 10:51:36 AM »
I just don't think killing God is the way to go about it.

"Killing" god?  Not believing in god amounts to "killing" him, do I have this correctly?  Seems like an overtly dramatic choice of words.


Quote
Jesus made belief/faith simple. It's not complicated,Believe in God and Love one Another. That's all it takes to get into Heaven, that simple!

Jesus also said to obey the commandments found in the old testaments.  Many of those commandments involves punishment by death (usually stoning).  How do we "love one another" when we're required to kill for minor transgression?  (such as picking up sticks on the wrong day)
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2013, 10:59:42 AM »
<snip>
Yes I know that most people here have done just that, but until you've heard every story, mine included, how can the investigation be over.

You are aware that this goes both ways, right? How many different gods did you learn about before you chose to believe in the one you do? Did you hear every story?

Preach not, practice not!
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My Momma always said,"You draw more bees with sugar than vinegar!" :laugh:
Are you sure this is in your favor?
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There are a lot of "good" people believing in God, will you condemn the righteous along with the unrighteous.
In general no, we don't. But when someone starts putting it the other way around "Believing in god makes people good" -- we may have a few words to say.

Hi Sunny,

I have studied Shintoism, Buddhism, 6 different Christian Doctrines,Atheism, Greek Mythology, different ancient beliefs, Native American, and the list goes on. My enlightenment was that God is the same no matter what you call Him. Another thought I felt interesting was how mankind's understanding of God evolves throughout history. 

I do believe that when an Atheist discovers God's Love he/she can be a POWERFUL WEAPON against religion.

As far as my Mother's advice, it works very well thank you. She wasn't referring to "actual" bees.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2013, 11:00:48 AM »
To quote House[1]:
Quote from: House
No, of course not. On the other hand, it is communicable and it kills a lot of people.
 1. He was referring to faith, but belief in deities requires faith, so I think it applies here as well.

hI ONE, Faith don't kill people, people kill people. If there is 1 point that I can make on this forum it would be this; practicing Christians,Muslims, and Judaism, with an inaccurate understanding of God can be dangerous. The solution IMO is not to take God away, but rather, by example show them God's true purpose,Love. Love is the key.
Sounds like a solution would be to establish an accurate understanding of god.  Got any means of doing that by chance?
The concept of faith just seems so counter-productive to trying to establish some degree of accuracy in understanding god.  If I try to understand, I dunno, any other aspect of reality, through faith, I wouldn't stand much of a chance at getting any sort of accurate understanding of that aspect of reality.  If I want to get an accurate understanding of the nature of the moon, it doesn't help, at all, for me to simply have faith that the moon is made of green cheese.  And so it goes with god; I can have all the faith in the world that god wants me to <do something/believe something/behave in some way>, but in what way can I, or anyone else, evaluate if that is accurate or inaccurate?  How is the concept of faith anything but a detriment in getting an accurate understanding of god?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2013, 11:01:18 AM »
Faith don't kill people, people kill people.

Yes, faith does kill people.
http://whatstheharm.net/religiousfundamentalism.html

And faith makes people make stupid decisions, believe stupid things and attempt to implement stupid policies.

The problem with faith is even when faithheads are wrong, they will not relent, no matter what the evidence against them.
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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2013, 11:07:27 AM »
Jesus made belief/faith simple. It's not complicated,Believe in God and Love one Another. That's all it takes to get into Heaven, that simple!

Why does faith have equal importance to love, JB?

Faith is important, but I'm not sure that it's equal. God wants us to believe in Him, that's faith. God Loves us whether we believe or not, so I would have to say Love is the most important. There are people with faith that have no Love and people with Love that have no faith. God can forgive us for lacking faith but I'm convinced that those without Love will face some consequences for the lack thereof.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Dante

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2013, 11:21:34 AM »
God can forgive us for lacking faith but I'm convinced that those without Love will face some consequences for the lack thereof.

So you're ok with all us atheists getting to heaven if we've loved one another?
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.