Author Topic: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing  (Read 32725 times)

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #870 on: May 03, 2013, 05:03:46 AM »
I have proven my point here. People will be hateful and detrimental to society with or without belief. I have shown where greed, fear, ego are responsible for human suffering and that religion was an answer to that suffering and was itself influenced by greed, fear and ego. 

This was not an easy battle either. I had very worthy adversaries that scrutinized every word I have said and challenged my intellect. They do raise extremely valid concerns about religious beliefs that I truly hope any believer will take to heart. 

People need to work together for the common good as well as look out for #1.

I am going to focus on this debate with Anf now.

Thank you for everything I have learned from you and letting me be a part of your discussion.

I wish you all the happiness in the World,

Junebug72

The only thing you've proven is how much an idiot you are. The very idea that you see your opinions as being facts shows that.

-Nam

You don't know what a fact is. I have given you much more than opinions.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #871 on: May 03, 2013, 05:10:11 AM »
I do think adversarial opinions are biased and unreliable.

The expression of an opinion does need to be assessed separately from its actual content.  A statement is not rendered invalid simply because it contains emotionally-charged language, profanity, or LOLcat pictures.

Human Nature is a fact not opinion.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #872 on: May 03, 2013, 06:00:58 AM »

Since you always check your facts, I want you to state exactly what facts you have that support this assertion.  Or you can admit that this is your unsupported opinion.  Up to you.

I've added back in the specific question I asked, about the specific statement you made.....I wonder why you didn't include that in your quoting?

Nope.  I don't keep a record of where I heard or learned everything I know.  But what I DO do, is make damn sure that when I decide to go on record with a very specific statement - such as "greedy drivers are bad drivers and cause more traffic accidents" - I pause, and see if my memory was correct, by - oh, I don't know - checking to see if there actually WAS any fact behind that statement.

But sure - no problem.  You can't at present recall where you got that information from.  What matters more, perhaps, is what you are going to do about it now.

Are you going to go off, look it up, and return with some evidence to support your statement?
Are you going to go off, look it up, find NO evidence to support the statement, and then withdraw that statement?
Or are you going to ignore the issue, claim its not important, and move on to your next unsubstantiated assertion?


Oh yes.  I read the first source that you gave, and explained in great detail why it was not a credible source.  I explained how it did not provide any evidence for the statements you made, and asked you some specific questions about how you selected that as your first piece of supporting evidence.

Thus far, you have NOT commented on my concerns about the source, and you have NOT answered my questions about how far you investigated that source before recommending it to us.

Given those two facts, can you explain to me why I should read any further sources that you listed, since your first one has left me with no confidence that they will be accurate, or even relevant?

I have over 20 years driving experience and a Class A license. I drove OTR for 2 years.

Nope I gave you the other sources first, I posted that one so you would look at it. So how about you look at it now. I'll go ahead and post the links for you this time along with other sources so you have all the sources you need. It took me years to watch all that.

http://www.linktv.org/programs/the-last-mountain
http://www.linktv.org/shadows
http://www.tv.com/shows/american-greed/
http://www.linktv.org/programs/fracking-hell-the-big-story
http://www.linktv.org/programs/koch-brothers-exposed
http://www.history.com/topics/ancient-rome
http://www.history.com/shows/how-the-earth-was-made/videos
http://www.history.com/shows/mankind-the-story-of-all-of-us/videos
http://www.history.com/shows/the-universe/videos


You said you wanted sources here they are. I have more sources than you could go through in 10 years or so if you want them too.  Magazine articles, books I've read.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #873 on: May 03, 2013, 06:34:13 AM »
You have no intention of letting any of my answers satisfy you.  My point is made. Human's will be hateful,greedy, murdering, bigots, with or w/o belief in God.  You want something to blame?  Blame human nature because that's what it's called.
Who said they wanted something to blame? This here doesnt answer anything I asked. I think I see the root of the problem. You arent reading anything people are writing to you, then you think simply because you quote a post then post a response, regardless of what your response says or the question said, you have "answered" the question. Well, that just isnt so.

I have asked you how we are supposed to discern between Fred Phelps beliefs in a god that "hates fags" and your belief that god does not hate homosexuals, when neither of you have any evidence for either of your opinions other than you saying it is so? Well, in fact Fred Phelps has MORE evidence than you in yahweh's autobiography (that you also subscribe to in order to pluck your belief in jesus) where he is clearly against homosexuals.

I have also asked how you can determine which parts of yahweh's autobiography we can just ignore (as you do when it suits your made up religion) and how you come to those conclusions? Simply stating that you believe yahweh is love is not satisfactory since Fred Phelps claims yahweh is hate.

Finally, we are not looking for anyone to blame. We know we are to blame for people starving when there is an over abundance of food on the planet. The question is if your god exists as you say it does, why does it sit with its thumb in its ass while its beloved children starve to death. Thats more rhetorical, because we know the answer. You should think about it though.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #874 on: May 03, 2013, 06:39:41 AM »


I have over 20 years driving experience and a Class A license. I drove OTR for 2 years.
So what?


Oh yes.  I read the first source that you gave, and explained in great detail why it was not a credible source.  I explained how it did not provide any evidence for the statements you made, and asked you some specific questions about how you selected that as your first piece of supporting evidence.

Thus far, you have NOT commented on my concerns about the source, and you have NOT answered my questions about how far you investigated that source before recommending it to us.

Given those two facts, can you explain to me why I should read any further sources that you listed, since your first one has left me with no confidence that they will be accurate, or even relevant?

Nope I gave you the other sources first, I posted that one so you would look at it. So how about you look at it now....

NO.  YOU answer my critique of it first, and answer my questions as to why (given its appaling bias and misrepresentation of fact) I should bother to look any any further sources you throw at me?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #875 on: May 03, 2013, 07:27:53 AM »


I have over 20 years driving experience and a Class A license. I drove OTR for 2 years.
So what?


Oh yes.  I read the first source that you gave, and explained in great detail why it was not a credible source.  I explained how it did not provide any evidence for the statements you made, and asked you some specific questions about how you selected that as your first piece of supporting evidence.

Thus far, you have NOT commented on my concerns about the source, and you have NOT answered my questions about how far you investigated that source before recommending it to us.

Given those two facts, can you explain to me why I should read any further sources that you listed, since your first one has left me with no confidence that they will be accurate, or even relevant?

Nope I gave you the other sources first, I posted that one so you would look at it. So how about you look at it now....

NO.  YOU answer my critique of it first, and answer my questions as to why (given its appaling bias and misrepresentation of fact) I should bother to look any any further sources you throw at me?

I told you why, because I gave you other sources first that you did not look at.  The article you're talking about was just food for thought. It is not where I said my source was. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #876 on: May 03, 2013, 09:14:42 AM »
NO.  YOU answer my critique of it first, and answer my questions as to why (given its appaling bias and misrepresentation of fact) I should bother to look any any further sources you throw at me?

I told you why, because I gave you other sources first that you did not look at.  The article you're talking about was just food for thought. It is not where I said my source was.

This does not appear to be true.

You quoted and referenced that article on April 24th:

Some food for thought:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddessig/2012/02/28/research-shows-wealth-greed-link-but-kindness-helps/

Research Shows Wealth-Greed Link, But Kindness Helps


I worked back from there to April 18th - which is before the "greed is bad" thing started, and I have been unable to see any sources listed.  Certainly I've seen no links, though it is possible that there may have been a "XXXX says that....." buried in one of your posts that I have missed.

So as far as I can see, that Forbes article is the FIRST one that you referenced.  Certainly it was the first one I am aware that you referenced.  And it sucked, for all the reasons that I discussed.

So - either you can show me where you referenced a source before that, or you can accept that since it was the first source I was aware of that you referenced, you need to explain its shortcomings before I have any reason to bother with any OTHER source you wish to reference.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Jag

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #877 on: May 03, 2013, 01:09:41 PM »
Human Nature is a fact not opinion.

This is the kind of statement that keeps getting you in trouble and you keep failing to understand why.

Read what you said: Human Nature is a fact not opinion.

Now, kindly explain (with some evidence as you will see demonstrated below) exactly how that is true. "Human nature" is an abstract, an idea, a phrase made up (ironically, by humans) to describe any number of different things, depending on who is speaking and in what context. You just throw these terms out with no frame of reference whatsoever, then you get defensive when someone calls you on it. Your language use is ...mushy. Vague. Unclear. Without appropriate context within the bigger conversation. Abstract even to you, by all appearances.

That does not in any way fit the definition of the word fact, which is:
fact [fakt] noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

(Before you get mad, let me state that I did a cut and paste from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact . The coincidental applicability of the italicized words is a coincidence. Don't read anything into them, it's just what the site stated.)

What you mean by human nature is not necessarily what anyone else means by those exact same words. If you insist on speaking in abstract terms with no accompanying support for your specific application of them, you're simply going to keep having the same endless circular conversations you've been having so far. Figure out how to say EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN WITHOUT RELYING ON VAGUE GENERALITIES and these conversations may actually be worth pursuing with you.

Or keep doing this, and keep being proven wrong. They're your 24 daily hours, you can spend them however you choose.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #878 on: May 03, 2013, 04:03:04 PM »
I have over 20 years driving experience and a Class A license. I drove OTR for 2 years.

Nope I gave you the other sources first, I posted that one so you would look at it. So how about you look at it now. I'll go ahead and post the links for you this time along with other sources so you have all the sources you need. It took me years to watch all that.

http://www.linktv.org/programs/the-last-mountain
http://www.linktv.org/shadows
http://www.tv.com/shows/american-greed/
http://www.linktv.org/programs/fracking-hell-the-big-story
http://www.linktv.org/programs/koch-brothers-exposed
http://www.history.com/topics/ancient-rome
http://www.history.com/shows/how-the-earth-was-made/videos
http://www.history.com/shows/mankind-the-story-of-all-of-us/videos
http://www.history.com/shows/the-universe/videos


You said you wanted sources here they are. I have more sources than you could go through in 10 years or so if you want them too.  Magazine articles, books I've read.
I confess that I was really scared that I'd see 'Ancient Aliens' on that big list of documentaries.

Seriously...that's the most blanket shot of sources I've ever seen.  You might as well have just cited "The Internet".
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #879 on: May 03, 2013, 04:09:04 PM »
You don't know what a fact is. I have given you much more than opinions.

No you haven't.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #880 on: May 03, 2013, 04:22:05 PM »
Television programs. I am speechless. Just, wow.

You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Nam

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #881 on: May 03, 2013, 04:26:20 PM »
Television programs. I am speechless. Just, wow.



I know. There's no bias in television. FOX NOISE tells me this all the time (unless liberal media, or anyone not them).

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #882 on: May 03, 2013, 04:45:17 PM »
junebug, you have to be way more specific with sources. You have just given us things that have influenced your thinking process. That is not the same thing as citing sources.

I can't say that evolution is a fact and then cite "CSI programs" or "biology books" or "science videos". I would have to give you some specific references that support the actual point I am trying to make.

And you can't just refer to stuff that agrees with you. You have to show that your source is objectively examining the issue (of greed causing famine and poverty, for example) and has, by evaluating evidence, come to the same conclusion you have. Or you can say you don't know. That is always okay, too.

Most of what goes on in the universe we don't really know. So we say so, instead of imagining what we wish was going on (I believe god is love and creator of all things like music kittens rainbows hearts and flowers) and acting as if that had a basis in fact.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Boots

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #883 on: May 03, 2013, 09:33:45 PM »
Please forgive me for being too lazy to read all 31 pages of this thread, and smite me if I bring up something that was in those 31 pages.

Here is one reason I opine that belief in god *is* a bad thing: it lends itself to what I call "moral immaturity."  The fact that you believe you have an invisible and omnipresent being who is watching everything you do and think and is aware of all your shortcomings gives you incredible incentive to do what this being wants--particularly since you can be damned for eternity for failing to comply.  No matter how hard you try, you will never, EVER do good or forego evil simply because it's the right thing to do, because god is ALWAYS WATCHING YOU.  You may have the purest soul in the world, but if you help the old lady across the street, you know god saw it and has the warm fuzzies.

I, on the other hand, am certain there is no such entity.  I am certain that when I die, I shall become worm food and my consciousness will cease to exist.  Therefore, I am free to actually do good deeds because I know I can make the world a better place, because that's the right thing to do.  Period.  I behave in a responsible, non-harmful, and (to the best of my ability) beneficial way regardless of who is watching, or not watching.

A theist can never be as morally mature as a non-theist.
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #884 on: May 03, 2013, 09:52:09 PM »
Yup.

The idea of god was not a lie but a device of the unconscious which needed to be decoded by psychology. A personal god was nothing more than an exalted father-figure.  Desire for such a deity sprang from infantile yearnings for a powerful, protective father; for justice and fairness and for life to go on forever. God is simply a projection of these desires, feared and worshipped by human beings out of an abiding sense of helplessness. Religion belonged to the infancy of the human race; it had been a necessary stage in the transition from childhood to maturity. It had promoted ethical values which were essential to society. Now that humanity had come of age, however, it should be left behind.  (Sigmund Freud)
God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups

Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #885 on: May 04, 2013, 07:18:27 AM »

Politicians don't say they don't accept climate science because they believe in God. They are doing it out of Greed. They represent special interest groups, like say oil industry. Maybe you should check out where I get my info. Try "Shadows of Liberty" or American Greed or the documentary on The Koch Brothers. Then tell me our problem isn't greed. Greed takes advantage of belief. Belief is not the problem it is greed.

Yea and you know what my opinion matters. I know several believers and they all believe in climate change. They recycle and believe we should keep our planet clean out of respect for God.

NO.  YOU answer my critique of it first, and answer my questions as to why (given its appaling bias and misrepresentation of fact) I should bother to look any any further sources you throw at me?

I told you why, because I gave you other sources first that you did not look at.  The article you're talking about was just food for thought. It is not where I said my source was.

This does not appear to be true.

You quoted and referenced that article on April 24th:

Some food for thought:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddessig/2012/02/28/research-shows-wealth-greed-link-but-kindness-helps/

Research Shows Wealth-Greed Link, But Kindness Helps


I worked back from there to April 18th - which is before the "greed is bad" thing started, and I have been unable to see any sources listed.  Certainly I've seen no links, though it is possible that there may have been a "XXXX says that....." buried in one of your posts that I have missed.

So as far as I can see, that Forbes article is the FIRST one that you referenced.  Certainly it was the first one I am aware that you referenced.  And it sucked, for all the reasons that I discussed.

So - either you can show me where you referenced a source before that, or you can accept that since it was the first source I was aware of that you referenced, you need to explain its shortcomings before I have any reason to bother with any OTHER source you wish to reference.

Isn't the date up there 4/23? It says 4/22 under my posts but whatever, you have some pie in your face.

If you would like the rest of the list of sources I'll work on getting it for you.  That wasn't the first time I named those sources either.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #886 on: May 04, 2013, 07:28:44 AM »
Please forgive me for being too lazy to read all 31 pages of this thread, and smite me if I bring up something that was in those 31 pages.

Here is one reason I opine that belief in god *is* a bad thing: it lends itself to what I call "moral immaturity."  The fact that you believe you have an invisible and omnipresent being who is watching everything you do and think and is aware of all your shortcomings gives you incredible incentive to do what this being wants--particularly since you can be damned for eternity for failing to comply.  No matter how hard you try, you will never, EVER do good or forego evil simply because it's the right thing to do, because god is ALWAYS WATCHING YOU.  You may have the purest soul in the world, but if you help the old lady across the street, you know god saw it and has the warm fuzzies.

I, on the other hand, am certain there is no such entity.  I am certain that when I die, I shall become worm food and my consciousness will cease to exist.  Therefore, I am free to actually do good deeds because I know I can make the world a better place, because that's the right thing to do.  Period.  I behave in a responsible, non-harmful, and (to the best of my ability) beneficial way regardless of who is watching, or not watching.

A theist can never be as morally mature as a non-theist.

Yelp you should have read the 31 pages.  You have no idea what I believe.  Do you expect to be paid after a hard days work?  That's what heaven is about.  A beautiful rest after a not long enough, very challenging life.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #887 on: May 04, 2013, 07:31:54 AM »
nogodsforme, how many hours of television programs did you have to watch to become a professor at your college. Must have been at least 100 shows, right? 
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #888 on: May 04, 2013, 07:39:28 AM »
junebug, you have to be way more specific with sources. You have just given us things that have influenced your thinking process. That is not the same thing as citing sources.

I can't say that evolution is a fact and then cite "CSI programs" or "biology books" or "science videos". I would have to give you some specific references that support the actual point I am trying to make.

And you can't just refer to stuff that agrees with you. You have to show that your source is objectively examining the issue (of greed causing famine and poverty, for example) and has, by evaluating evidence, come to the same conclusion you have. Or you can say you don't know. That is always okay, too.

Most of what goes on in the universe we don't really know. So we say so, instead of imagining what we wish was going on (I believe god is love and creator of all things like music kittens rainbows hearts and flowers) and acting as if that had a basis in fact.

You can't criticize my sources when you haven't looked at them to see if they're credible or not. You people are going to say Junebug don't give sources but junebug does give sources so now it's junebugs sources aren't good sources, you people are wimps.  Scared to view the sources because you're afraid you might agree with me. 

I propose sense yal made such a big deal out of this issue nobody says another word until you have viewed at least one documentary I have provided and I chose either, "Koch Brothers Revealed" or "The Last Mountain".  Either shows severe consequences to greed. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online One Above All

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #889 on: May 04, 2013, 07:46:53 AM »
You can't criticize my sources when you haven't looked at them to see if they're credible or not. You people are going to say Junebug don't give sources but junebug does give sources so now it's junebugs sources aren't good sources, you people are wimps.  Scared to view the sources because you're afraid you might agree with me.

Nobody is afraid to agree with you, junebug72. That's just stupid. Personally, I just don't see the point in amusing you by reading something I know to be false. Greed is as much the main problem of this planet as religion.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #890 on: May 04, 2013, 08:06:27 AM »
nogodsforme, how many hours of television programs did you have to watch to become a professor at your college. Must have been at least 100 shows, right?

Hide behind your insults.

You can't criticize my sources when you haven't looked at them to see if they're credible or not. You people are going to say Junebug don't give sources but junebug does give sources so now it's junebugs sources aren't good sources, you people are wimps.  Scared to view the sources because you're afraid you might agree with me.

Nobody is afraid to agree with you, junebug72. That's just stupid. Personally, I just don't see the point in amusing you by reading something I know to be false. Greed is as much the main problem of this planet as religion.

How do you know it's false if you haven't looked at it.  That's the only stupid and cowardice thing I see. 


Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #891 on: May 04, 2013, 08:08:56 AM »
How do you know it's false if you haven't looked at it. 

I know greed is not the main problem with this word through logic and paying attention.

That's the only stupid and cowardice thing I see. 

Then you must need glasses.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #892 on: May 04, 2013, 08:24:19 AM »
How do you know it's false if you haven't looked at it. 

I know greed is not the main problem with this word through logic and paying attention.

That's the only stupid and cowardice thing I see. 

Then you must need glasses.

Looks like squirming to me. I never said greed was the only problem.  You people need to quit displaying those pictures of hungry children you don't care about that.  So you say greed does not cause poverty and the hunger that inflicts those baby, You're the uninformed one not me.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #893 on: May 04, 2013, 08:29:04 AM »
Looks like squirming to me.

Again, you need glasses.

I never said greed was the only problem.

Neither did I. I said it wasn't the main problem of this planet.

You people need to quit displaying those pictures of hungry children you don't care about that.

So you know what we care about? I must've missed your post about being a mind reader...

So you say greed does not cause poverty and the hunger that inflicts those baby, You're the uninformed one not me.

No. I just say it's not the major problem of this planet.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #894 on: May 04, 2013, 08:46:45 AM »
nogodsforme, how many hours of television programs did you have to watch to become a professor at your college. Must have been at least 100 shows, right?

Hide behind your insults.


Again, highlighting your ignorance and helping a friend who is exhasperated in her foolhearty attempt to reason with the haughty village idiot.

Your self-righteousness and ignorance is what seals the deal here.

What exactly am I hiding? The truth that some people think watching the History channel is the same as actual education? It's sad, but it's reality.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #895 on: May 04, 2013, 09:38:43 AM »
Looks like squirming to me. I never said greed was the only problem.  You people need to quit displaying those pictures of hungry children you don't care about that.  So you say greed does not cause poverty and the hunger that inflicts those baby, You're the uninformed one not me.
June, you may very well be correct that greed[1] is the primary reason for the vast poverty we see in the world, but you are missing the point. It makes no sense whatsoever that an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god would allow even one innocent child to starve to death, yet thousands do every year. It is the greatest of all contradictions for this to happen.

Theists must cling to the notion that god would be violating "free will" if he were to step in and help those suffering, but this is simply a justifying rationalization. It would in no way violate anyone's free will for god to create a healthy, nutritious, and tasty crop that would naturally grow in abundance in an arid environment. But that doesn't happen, does it? An all-powerful, all-loving being would ensure that the consequences of greed would rightfully be borne by the greedy, not the innocent. Do you believe there is any "sin" a baby could commit that would justify a punishment of death?

This is the biggest reason why I (and many others here) simply cannot believe in your god, June. The fact that innocent babies and children suffer and die every day is proof that your god does not exist. Does it make sense that a god who cares about helping someone find his keys, or curing someone's cancer, or which football team wins the game, would not help the most needy? Of course not! You credit god with helping you through some tough times, but I would bet that whatever suffering you've experienced would pale in comparison to starving to death. What do you think?
 1. greed of the warlords in control of these impoverished nations, maybe even greed of the wealthy nations for not giving enough?
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #896 on: May 04, 2013, 09:41:57 AM »
Look im going to be real here JB. Perhaps you should look for a gnostic christian community to fulfill whatever youre looking for. maybe someone here knows of some sites that will help you withr journey. Most, if not all, of us here dont like to be preached to, many of us were christians, we dont accept what you consider evidence as evidence FROM ANYONE.

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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #897 on: May 04, 2013, 09:43:50 AM »
The fact that innocent babies and children suffer and die every day is proof that your god does not exist.

Not quite.  It could be that this god is callous and indifferent.  But yes, more likely non-existent.
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Re: Believing in God is Not a Bad Thing
« Reply #898 on: May 04, 2013, 10:40:16 AM »
The fact that innocent babies and children suffer and die every day is proof that your god does not exist.

Not quite.  It could be that this god is callous and indifferent.  But yes, more likely non-existent.

The omnipotent and omnibenevolent god in whom JB believes cannot exist, given the contradictions we see in this world. This does not mean that it is impossible for a creator to exist, but it does mean that if there is one he is unconcerned with the plight of mankind. This would also mean he neither desires nor deserves our worship.

edit: grammar
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 10:43:09 AM by DumpsterFire »
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I once met a man who claimed to be a genius, then boasted that he was a member of "Mesa".

Think for yourself.