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Offline pianodwarf

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questions [#2732]
« on: April 03, 2013, 05:53:26 AM »
I would like to pose a couple of questions to you. First, you seem to put a lot of emphasis on being smart and educated. my question to you is where do you think our abilities come from? If you do not believe you are fearfully and wonderfully made by our Creator, in His image, then I am interested to know where your joy, hope and reason for living come from?   I would like to share the truth of God's Word with you, and answer any questions you may have. I am a passionate apologist. I do have one other thing to add if I may. You say God does not heal amputees, but  cancer is cured all the time. I have had 2 dear friends (both came to Christ as a result of their cancer diagnosis) die from cancer over the past 2 years with another one going through stage 4 lung cancer now. My one friend Scott, died at age 33, and his testimony was actually titled, "Blessed with Cancer" . You see, Scott was extremely successful by the world's standards, but went on to say that he truly never lived  until cancer put everything in perspective for him. Until he surrendered His life to Jesus, he never had true joy, peace, and contentment. We cannot explain this to you, it has to be revealed to you through the Holy Spirit, but I will pray for your heart to opened to the truth. To conclude my note, I will just say that Scott did get his healing, he is alive in eternity with the Lord in heaven. This world is a fallen world, marred by sin; which brought about pain, death, and disease. Because that occurred, we are all not meant to live on this earth forever. But we all will exist for eternity- either with God or separated from Him forever- it is our choice to accept the free gift of salvation He offers us. He cannot force us to accept Him, it would not be true love if we did not have a choice. Thank you for your time. I urge you to search your heart, if there is a painful hurt , a loss you have suffered in your life that is causing you to want to turn people from God, if you are truly blaming God for something that has happened, please know there is healing from that pain.
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[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 06:14:34 AM »
Quote from: Latest Christian
I would like to share the truth of God's Word with you, and answer any questions you may have.
Great stuff!  Looking forward to you signing up to the forum!  Here are some questions to get you started.....

Quote from: Latest Christian
We cannot explain this to you, it has to be revealed to you through the Holy Spirit, but I will pray for your heart to opened to the truth.

So if nothing happens, does that mean you didn't pray hard enough?

Quote from: Latest Christian
You say God does not heal amputees, but  cancer is cured all the time.

Yeahhhhh.....that's sort of the point?  Cancer - that CAN be cured by medical treatment, and that CAN on occasion go into remission by itself - often apparently responds to prayer.  Amputation - that can NOT be cured, and does NOT spontaneously grow back - never responds to prayer.  Ever.

Hence the question - Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

Quote from: Latest Christian
I have had 2 dear friends (both came to Christ as a result of their cancer diagnosis) die from cancer over the past 2 years with another one going through stage 4 lung cancer now.
While I'm sorry for your friends, does this mean you - and they - weren't praying hard enough?

Quote from: Latest Christian
I will just say that Scott did get his healing, he is alive in eternity with the Lord in heaven.
So why DO you pray for cancer to be cured?  Surely you should welcome it, when it happens to you, or your friends, or your family?

Well, see you soon - looking forward to your answers.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Graybeard

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 06:42:34 AM »
I would like to pose a couple of questions to you. First, you seem to put a lot of emphasis on being smart and educated. my question to you is where do you think our abilities come from?

Welcome to WWGHA.

Our abilities come from millions of years of evolution during which time we developed into the most intelligent species ever to occupy this planet.

Here is the Wiki article on Human EvolutionWiki. Note how our cranial capacity increased. This gave us an incredible advantage over other species, but it came at a cost of a loss of tendon strength. It would be very much worthwhile your reading about human development, so that you understand a little more.

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The earliest documented members of the genus Homo are Homo habilis which evolved around 2.3 million years ago; the earliest species for which there is positive evidence of use of stone tools. The brains of these early hominins were about the same size as that of a chimpanzee. During the next million years a process of encephalization began, and with the arrival of Homo erectus in the fossil record, cranial capacity had doubled to 850 cm3


I notice that you move quickly away from the idea that the Judeo-Christian God does not heal amputees and speak more of cancer. Cancer is not a single disease but a whole raft of them, some more serious than others. The overriding cause is the failure of cell-death within the tumor or other irregularity. We are unsure as to exactly why this occurs - my suspicion is that it is a genetic tendency combined with environmental causes. However, research is going on and over the years, survival rates for all types of cancer have increased - we are putting our evolved intelligence to good use.

I suspect that you will attribute things to God - just as all other religions attribute those things to their gods. Now, I think that what you believe god does is exactly the same as what you do not understand. Once you understand, then "God didn't do it."

I hope this helps.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Dante

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 07:06:35 AM »
To conclude my note, I will just say that Scott did get his healing, he is alive in eternity with the Lord in heaven.

Prove it. Just a little. Because it sure sounds to me like he's dead.

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This world is a fallen world, marred by sin; which brought about pain, death, and disease. Because that occurred, we are all not meant to live on this earth forever.

And you think it occurred because your omnipotent diety couldn't foresee, nor prevent, a talking snake from entering a garden? Really? Does that sound like something an educated, rational adult should believe????


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But we all will exist for eternity- either with God or separated from Him forever- it is our choice to accept the free gift of salvation He offers us. He cannot force us to accept Him, it would not be true love if we did not have a choice.

Of course it wouldn't. It also wouldn't be true love if an omnipotent deity couldn't look past a simple thing like disbelief. Also, if your god were to show himself, you know, make it's presence actually KNOWN, there wouldn't be any atheists. We would all believe. That's not to say we would all worship, or love your god. But at least we could know it was real. But right now we cannot.

Because your god is imaginary.

Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Mrjason

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2013, 07:22:00 AM »
I have had 2 dear friends (both came to Christ as a result of their cancer diagnosis) die from cancer over the past 2 years with another one going through stage 4 lung cancer now. My one friend Scott, died at age 33, and his testimony was actually titled, "Blessed with Cancer" .

I don't want to demean anyones suffering but it sounds to me like these friends and Scott turned to god because..
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there is a painful hurt , a loss you have suffered in your life 

and they wanted

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  healing from that pain.

A sad story but I get that people will seek comfort where ever they can find it.
I don't really know where I stand on religion as a form of palliative care

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2013, 07:59:12 AM »
Hello, Letter Writer, welcome to WWGHA.

I would like to pose a couple of questions to you.  First, you seem to put a lot of emphasis on being smart and educated. my question to you is where do you think our abilities come from? If you do not believe you are fearfully and wonderfully made by our Creator, in His image, then I am interested to know where your joy, hope and reason for living come from?

The same place all of the rest of our biological functions come from: evolution.

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I would like to share the truth of God's Word with you, and answer any questions you may have. I am a passionate apologist.

Please feel free to use the link provided to you in the email you received this morning to join the forums and engage us.

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I do have one other thing to add if I may. You say God does not heal amputees, but  cancer is cured all the time.

Right, that's the whole point of the question: Why won't God heal amputees?  Why cancer, or diabetes, or psoriasis, but never, ever an amputation?  The answer is, those other things sometimes clear up on their own, but amputation does not -- that is, the former is ambiguous as far as "miracleness" goes, but the latter is not.  And the latter never happens.

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I have had 2 dear friends (both came to Christ as a result of their cancer diagnosis) die from cancer over the past 2 years with another one going through stage 4 lung cancer now. My one friend Scott, died at age 33, and his testimony was actually titled, "Blessed with Cancer" . You see, Scott was extremely successful by the world's standards, but went on to say that he truly never lived  until cancer put everything in perspective for him. Until he surrendered His life to Jesus, he never had true joy, peace, and contentment.

Frankly, that sounds pretty pathetic.  Would also consider himself "blessed" to be with his wife if she were beating him regularly?  It's pretty much the same thing.

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We cannot explain this to you, it has to be revealed to you through the Holy Spirit, but I will pray for your heart to opened to the truth.

Fine.  You pray for me, I'll think for you.

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To conclude my note, I will just say that Scott did get his healing, he is alive in eternity with the Lord in heaven.

Being dead is not "getting your healing".  It's the exact opposite of getting your healing.  Sheesh, talk about saying that black is white.

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This world is a fallen world

Fallen?  How?  You mean like this?



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marred by sin; which brought about pain, death, and disease. Because that occurred, we are all not meant to live on this earth forever.

Why are seven billion people condemned to death because two people ate a piece of fruit?  Especially inasmuch as they didn't know that what they were doing was wrong?  (They couldn't have, because they had no knowledge of good and evil.)

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But we all will exist for eternity

Everything we know about biology and related disciplines points in one direction, and one direction only: consciousness ceases completely with death.  Anything else is wishful thinking.

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either with God or separated from Him forever- it is our choice to accept the free gift of salvation He offers us. He cannot force us to accept Him, it would not be true love if we did not have a choice.

Why doesn't he just give it to everyone regardless of whether we "accept him" or not?  If I discovered the cure for cancer, I'd give it to everyone.  I wouldn't demand that anyone worship me first, and I certainly wouldn't soak them in gasoline and set them on fire if they refused to do so.  I wouldn't even demand that anyone say "thank you" to me, although I admit I'd be disappointed in them if they didn't.

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Thank you for your time.

And thank you for writing.

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I urge you to search your heart, if there is a painful hurt , a loss you have suffered in your life that is causing you to want to turn people from God

That's not it at all.

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if you are truly blaming God for something that has happened, please know there is healing from that pain.

Atheists do not blame god for anything because we do not believe he exists.  I'm really surprised at how often we hear this kind of thing from believers.  Do you blame Darth Vader for the bird flu?
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Tonus

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2013, 08:20:38 AM »
I reject the notion that without belief in god we lack motivation or desire to live a rich and meaningful life.  Having spent decades as a believer in an afterlife and several years as an atheist, I haven't approached life very differently at all.  The primary difference is a sense of freedom, due to the realization that my life is my own to manage and not in the hands of some confusing "higher power."  I don't have to rationalize the bad things that happen to good people, or the good things that happen to bad people.  I don't have to bend, twist, and distort god into some hideous caricature in order to sleep better at night.

Letting go of god means letting go of the idea that we have to answer every question and every doubt before we can enjoy living.

Offline screwtape

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2013, 08:49:24 AM »
Quote from: #2732
If you do not believe you are fearfully and wonderfully made by our Creator, in His image, then I am interested to know where your joy, hope and reason for living come from?

Your reason to live stems from a fear of god?  That's very sad.

And how is it you think you were made?  In jesus' workshop?  Do you think yhwh puts together DNA at conception?  Or does he just guide the Chosen Sperm to the Chosen Egg?  Seriously, I have no idea why you think you or I were made by a deity.

I also don't think you are actually interested in knowing anything about me.  Most xians who come here are more interested in chastising me.  So, you probably are too.

Quote from: #2732
I am a passionate apologist.

Of course you are.  But do you understand why apologetics are masive failures of thought?

Quote from: #2732
You say God does not heal amputees, but  cancer is cured all the time.

I don't say that.  I do not think anyone says that.  I think you have misunderstood.

Quote from: #2732
I will just say that Scott did get his healing, he is alive in eternity with the Lord in heaven.

That is not healing and he is not alive.  He is dead.  The exact opposite of being healed.  Your religion only works when you make words mean things they do not mean.

Quote from: #2732
if there is a painful hurt , a loss you have suffered in your life that is causing you to want to turn people from God, if you are truly blaming God for something that has happened, please know there is healing from that pain.

Nope.  Nothing like that.  I'm not mad at god.  I think god is pretend.  And being mad at a pretend thing would be silly.  I'm mad at the idiots who try to get national policy based on their delusional ideas of what they think a pretend god wants.

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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 10:27:51 AM »
I would like to pose a couple of questions to you. First, you seem to put a lot of emphasis on being smart and educated. my question to you is where do you think our abilities come from?
A few billion years of evolution.
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If you do not believe you are fearfully and wonderfully made by our Creator, in His image, then I am interested to know where your joy, hope and reason for living come from? 
From life itself. If life is not worth living on its own, if it has no intrinsic value other than to fear and love and worship Big Brother, then God's act of creation would seem pretty meaningless and pointless.
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I would like to share the truth of God's Word with you, and answer any questions you may have.
Which God is that? There are thousands to choose from. Are you talking about the God who will make his arrows drunk with blood, and whose sword will devour flesh, the God who will avenge the blood of his servants, and who takes vengeance upon his enemies? That God? If your God is the God of the Bible, then you have to answer yes to this question.
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I am a passionate apologist.
If God is so awesome, and wrote the best book ever, either directly or through spiritual guidance, why does he need his lowly creation, such as yourself, to make excuses for him? Apologetics would be entirely unnecessary if the Bible was actually a coherent, non-contradictory, rational, moral, evidence based work of literature. The fact that "apologists" such as yourself exist seems to demonstrate that it is none of these things.
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I do have one other thing to add if I may. You say God does not heal amputees, but  cancer is cured all the time.
I hate to break this to you, but "amputation" is not the same thing as "cancer". I sure hope you are not a physician.
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I have had 2 dear friends (both came to Christ as a result of their cancer diagnosis)
And yet Christopher Hitchens did not. Imagine that.
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die from cancer over the past 2 years
I am sorry for your loss, but according to Jesus, they could not have been followers of his, since he says of those who are his followers "nothing shall by any means hurt you". Dying of cancer certainly falls under the category of "things which, by some means, hurt you", therefore, they could not have been True Christians. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this was what Jesus actually said on the matter.
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with another one going through stage 4 lung cancer now. My one friend Scott, died at age 33, and his testimony was actually titled, "Blessed with Cancer" . You see, Scott was extremely successful by the world's standards, but went on to say that he truly never lived  until cancer put everything in perspective for him.
You see, there are those of us who do not consider suffering to be a "blessing". Mother Teresa thought that suffering was a blessing, a gift from God, and that the suffering of others brought her closer to God. Yet when she was dying, she was not content to rely on the lord's grace to protect her (or not), she didn't feel compelled to live in her House of the Dying, wasting away in fear and pain and despair, until the end finally came, like she condemned so many others to do. Instead, she sought out the best science based medicine she could get.
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Until he surrendered His life to Jesus, he never had true joy, peace, and contentment.
And how do you KNOW that he is with Jesus now? Don't you think that your savior would consider it just a teeny bit arrogant to suggest that his pitiful, wretched creation would be just as capable of determining who is saved and who is not as the Lord himself? If that was the case, why would we even need Jesus to begin with? The Bible says that God pre-destined who would be saved and who would be damned, and only God in his mercy (oh the irony) can determine this. Do you presume to know the mind of God?
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We cannot explain this to you, it has to be revealed to you through the Holy Spirit,
And how does that happen, and what does it look like?
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but I will pray for your heart to opened to the truth. To conclude my note, I will just say that Scott did get his healing, he is alive in eternity with the Lord in heaven.
Again, how do you know this? I was under the impression that God determines who he saves or not, and not his pitiful, apologizing dirt-men.
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This world is a fallen world, marred by sin;
What exactly does this mean?
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which brought about pain, death, and disease.
Pain, death and disease have been around for much longer than any pathetic human notion of divinity. Just ask the dinosaurs. Oh wait, you can't because they were wiped out by a asteroid 65 million years before anyone ever made up God.
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Because that occurred, we are all not meant to live on this earth forever.
I wouldn't want to live on this earth forever. IT would get pretty boring after a few thousand years.
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But we all will exist for eternity-
Evidence please?
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either with God or separated from Him forever- it is our choice to accept the free gift of salvation He offers us.
Eph.1:4-5 "He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." In other words, no, it is not our choice, it is God's choice. Please try reading the Bible. And this "free gift" of salvation is only necessary because God was insulted by a dirt man and a rib woman eating a fruit, back when His omnipotence could easily be overthrown by a talking snake. 
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He cannot force us to accept Him, it would not be true love if we did not have a choice.
Sure, just like North Koreans have a "choice"  to love and praise and thank and fear the Dear Leader. Is it time for your thorazine yet?
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Thank you for your time. I urge you to search your heart, if there is a painful hurt , a loss you have suffered in your life that is causing you to want to turn people from God, if you are truly blaming God for something that has happened, please know there is healing from that pain.
IF God exists, and his all powerful and all knowing and transcends time, which his fans see to think, then he is, in fact, responsible for EVERYTHING that has happened, since he had the power, knowledge, and time to make things differently. If a person is aware that a child is being abused, and can do something about it, but doesn't, then they are considered to be a perpetrator of abuse by omission. This would make God the largest perp by omission of all time. He was even happy to have his own son tortured and killed in order to "save" us from his own wrath for stuff that imaginary people did in a mythical garden. Why is it that the all powerful, all knowing superdude of the universe is, according to his biography, only ever capable of initiating change through death, suffering, misery and destruction of the highest order? Why can't he do any better than an evil dictator? Could it be because the God you worship is, in fact, an evil dictator? A divine Big Brother? Why didn't God smite his enemies with adorable kittens and puppies, and send them rain showers of gold and diamonds, or turn their weapons into cupcakes? Wouldn't this have sufficed to demonstrate his power and benevolence? Wouldn't a God who is supposed to be the definition of good have something better up his sleeve than killing people? God even kills people for complaining that God kills too many people. This is not benevolence, this is wickedness.

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"If someone obeys God's teaching, then in that person God's Love has truly reached its goal." 1 John 2:5
So if you had a daughter, and she was found to not be a virgin on her wedding day, and she was stoned to death on your front porch, would that not be the paragon of God's love reaching it's goal? Don't give me the usual piffle about the Old Testament being "only for the Jews". Jesus was Jewish, and makes very clear that he came to see the OT fulfilled, and berated those who didn't follow it. And if the OT is "only for the Jews" then don't use it to pitifully justify Jesus and the NT testament supposedly fulfilling OT prophecy. Note that "the Jews" have examined the same prophecies, and Jesus' alleged fulfillment of them, and determined that he doesn't make the cut. If the very people whose prophecies they are do not think that their criteria have been met, then it seems that you are worshiping a false prophet, and we all know where that gets you. Better bring the hot dogs and smores, because it's supposed to be awfully hot in hell.

EDIT: Spelling
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 10:39:16 AM by kaziglu bey »
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Aaron123

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2013, 11:37:38 AM »
I would like to pose a couple of questions to you.

Ok...

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First, you seem to put a lot of emphasis on being smart and educated. my question to you is where do you think our abilities come from?

Our brains.


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If you do not believe you are fearfully and wonderfully made by our Creator,

Our creator "fearfully" made us?  Odd choice of words.  Oh, and your "creator" was not a supernatural being.  They were your mom and dad.


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in His image, then I am interested to know where your joy, hope and reason for living come from?

Friends, family, things of interest, kitty cats.  Why do you insists on magic for happiness?



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I would like to share the truth of God's Word with you, and answer any questions you may have. I am a passionate apologist. I do have one other thing to add if I may.


Here we go...


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You say God does not heal amputees, but  cancer is cured all the time.


Wait, you're going to talk about cancer?  What about the amputees?


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I have had 2 dear friends (both came to Christ as a result of their cancer diagnosis) die from cancer over the past 2 years with another one going through stage 4 lung cancer now.


Now hold on!  I thought you just said that god cure cancer!  Get your story straight!


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My one friend Scott, died at age 33, and his testimony was actually titled, "Blessed with Cancer" . You see, Scott was extremely successful by the world's standards, but went on to say that he truly never lived  until cancer put everything in perspective for him. Until he surrendered His life to Jesus, he never had true joy, peace, and contentment. We cannot explain this to you, it has to be revealed to you through the Holy Spirit

A sad story, but it sounds more like a guy coping with dying at an early age, rather than magic happening.  Oh, before, you said that god cured cancer.  Where the curing in this story?!  I've heard of "counting the hits, ignoring the misses", but this...



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but I will pray for your heart to opened to the truth.


I will think for your mind to be opened to the truth.


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To conclude my note, I will just say that Scott did get his healing, he is alive in eternity with the Lord in heaven.


Well, we all cope with death somehow...


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This world is a fallen world, marred by sin; which brought about pain, death, and disease. Because that occurred, we are all not meant to live on this earth forever.


Death and diseases are things that happens naturaly.  There is nothing magical or supernatural about them.


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But we all will exist for eternity- either with God or separated from Him forever- it is our choice to accept the free gift of salvation He offers us. He cannot force us to accept Him, it would not be true love if we did not have a choice.


Cool story.  But that's all it is.


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Thank you for your time. I urge you to search your heart, if there is a painful hurt , a loss you have suffered in your life that is causing you to want to turn people from God, if you are truly blaming God for something that has happened, please know there is healing from that pain.

Ah, the old cloying "angry atheist/void in your heart BS".  You can't accept that your excuses are inadequate.  No no no.  It's the atheists' fault for not accepting your woeful stories and excuses for god.

By the way, why won't you believe in Santa Claus?  Search your heart, if there is a painful hurt , a loss you have suffered in your life that is causing you to want to turn people from Santa Claus, if you are truly blaming Santa Claus for something that has happened, please know there is healing from that pain.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2013, 11:40:19 AM »
I would like to pose a couple of questions to you. First, you seem to put a lot of emphasis on being smart and educated. my question to you is where do you think our abilities come from? If you do not believe you are fearfully and wonderfully made by our Creator, in His image, then I am interested to know where your joy, hope and reason for living come from?   

I get a lot of joy, hope and reason from knowing that there aren't really any gods to muck up the world. You've no idea how much that helps. Given that some none-existent deity is messing up yours.

Blindly following something that is nothing, out of fear, can add nothing good to a life. Unless you're big on fantasies.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Jag

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2013, 11:54:40 AM »
I am a passionate apologist.
This bit just gets me, every time I see it. Stop for just a moment and consider: passionate apologist. Skip the passionate for now, and just focus on apologist...WTF? seriously? Your "religion" is so incoherent that it actually requires it's members to apologize for it? You do realize that the root word of "apologist" is "apology", right? As in, I apologize for (whatever you're apologizing for).

So tell me, please, what exactly it is that you are apologizing for?
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We cannot explain this to you, it has to be revealed to you through the Holy Spirit,

Who is "we"? And, if you (assuming you are part of the "we" of which you are speaking) are not able to "explain it to us" how will we know when "it" happens?
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but I will pray for your heart to opened to the truth.

If my heart is opened by anything other than a surgeon, I'll be pretty upset (for just a split second, right before I drop dead from having my heart opened), so please don't.

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I urge you to search your heart, if there is a painful hurt , a loss you have suffered in your life that is causing you to want to turn people from God, if you are truly blaming God for something that has happened, please know there is healing from that pain.

If you would be so kind, please read this: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist.  I'll make it really easy and even tell you what it says - definition of atheist:one who believes that there is no deity.

Please stop making such foolish assumptions of what an atheist is, and try asking one what they believe, or don't believe. We are not angry at your god, we don't believe that your god exists. Can you see the difference? Why would any of us be angry at something we don't believe in? Are you mad at Zeus? I bet not, because you don't believe Zeus exists... we don't either, for the same reasons we don't believe in YOUR god.

Now, do yourself a really big favor and read a book, about science and evolution. There are literally hundreds of them available, I'm sure there's one out there that is perfect to introduce you to these concepts.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline screwtape

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2013, 12:49:21 PM »
apologist:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apologist
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one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something

etymology:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=apology&allowed_in_frame=0
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early 15c., "defense, justification," from Late Latin apologia, from Greek apologia "a speech in defense," from apologeisthai "to speak in one's defense," from apologos "an account, story," from apo- "from, off" (see apo-) + logos "speech" (see lecture (n.)).

The original English sense of "self-justification" yielded a meaning "frank expression of regret for wrong done," first recorded 1590s, but this was not the main sense until 18c. The old sense tends to emerge in Latin form apologia (first attested in English 1784), especially since J.H. Newman's "Apologia pro Vita Sua" (1864).
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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Irish

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2013, 11:55:03 PM »
my question to you is where do you think our abilities come from?

My mind, which is the best tool humans have for living.

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If you do not believe you are fearfully and wonderfully made by our Creator, in His image, then I am interested to know where your joy, hope and reason for living come from?

No, I am not made by a creator - any creator.  I was made from the joining of my father's sperm with my mother's egg - basic biology.  As for my joy, hope and reason for living? Those all stem from some brain chemistry and my thinking mind as well.

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I would like to share the truth of God's Word with you...

And so it begins...

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and answer any questions you may have

Why does a benevolent god punish "sinful" souls terribly and painfully for all eternity without remorse or reprieve?

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You say God does not heal amputees, but  cancer is cured all the time.  I have had 2 dear friends (both came to Christ as a result of their cancer diagnosis) die from cancer over the past 2 years with another one going through stage 4 lung cancer now. My one friend Scott, died at age 33, and his testimony was actually titled, "Blessed with Cancer" . You see, Scott was extremely successful by the world's standards, but went on to say that he truly never lived  until cancer put everything in perspective for him. Until he surrendered His life to Jesus, he never had true joy, peace, and contentment.

Notice that no credible medical hospital or clinic combats cancer with Jesus.  I will however agree with you on one point: cancer is an incredible motivator to human action. 

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We cannot explain this to you, it has to be revealed to you through the Holy Spirit

Describe this Holy Spirit: What is it?  What is it made of?  How did it come to be?  Where does it exist when it is not "revealed to [me]"?  What does it do to me when it is "revealed to [me]"?

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I will pray for your heart to opened to the truth.

My heart does not examine and validate truth; that is left to my mind.

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To conclude my note, I will just say that Scott did get his healing, he is alive in eternity with the Lord in heaven.

That is the exact opposite of the meaning of "healed".  Dead is not healed.  Dead is dead.

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This world is a fallen world, marred by sin; which brought about pain, death, and disease.

I hear this line quite often and love it. Here's why:

I have a Bachelors degree in microbiology.  I spent the last five years of my life studying the bacteria, viruses, and parasites that cause disease.  I'm about to spend another year in my clinical rotations to become a clinical laboratory scientist and then work in a microbiology lab helping doctors diagnose patients with infections.  Yet, after all this studying this near miraculous information is presented to me that disease is not caused by microorganisms (as one example of disease) but is instead caused by sin.  Amazing.  It's like the entire archive of medical literature dealing with disease needs to be tossed in the fire.  Sin was the answer the whole time! If only those silly doctors and scientists who spent their entire life categorizing and studying pathogenic microorganisms had this information sooner they wouldn't have wasted their time and just concentrated on the Bible.

Imagine a world in which men like Pasteur, Salk, Jenner, Semmelweis, Koch, or Flemming actually believed that disease was caused by sin...

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Because that occurred, we are all not meant to live on this earth forever.

Every organism has a finite life; why should we expect to be any different?

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it is our choice to accept the free gift of salvation He offers us.

I don't need salvation/saving.  I have nothing to be saved from as I don't recognize human nature as inherently sinful.
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline Astreja

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2013, 12:29:27 AM »
If you do not believe you are fearfully and wonderfully made by our Creator, in His image, then I am interested to know where your joy, hope and reason for living come from?

From My own life experiences.  Your god is simply not required for My happiness.

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I would like to share the truth of God's Word with you...

Been there, done that -- Nearly 50 years ago.  Didn't find any truth there.  Didn't even get a Talking Snake™ out of the deal.

By the way, do you happen to have a Talking Snake™ you can spare?  If so, please ask your god for the correct shipping address and courier it to My place.

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I will just say that Scott did get his healing, he is alive in eternity with the Lord in heaven.

So you're in contact with Scott on a regular basis, then?  Or do you just see him in heaven in your imagination?  I'm sorry for your loss, but you'll never get around to grieving him properly until you acknowledge that he really is dead.

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But we all will exist for eternity- either with God or separated from Him forever- it is our choice to accept the free gift of salvation He offers us.

I choose to reject this alleged "free gift," as I think your god is fictional and also think that eternal life (even in a heaven) is a simply dreary prospect.

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Offline Aaron123

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2013, 12:21:42 PM »
I have had 2 dear friends (both came to Christ as a result of their cancer diagnosis) die from cancer over the past 2 years with another one going through stage 4 lung cancer now. My one friend Scott, died at age 33,
...

he is alive in eternity with the Lord in heaven. This world is a fallen world, marred by sin; which brought about pain, death, and disease. Because that occurred, we are all not meant to live on this earth forever. [/b]

I've been thinking about this; if death comes about because of sin, then doesn't that means your friends were extra-sinful?

Why assume they went to heaven?  Your friends were so sinful, that god marked them to death at an early age.  Sure, they did that song and dance about Jesus, but it was too late, they died anyway.  While you're smiling at the thought of them in heaven, they're really experiencing eternal pain and stuffering.  Meanwhile, god is such a douchebag, that he doesn't have the courtesy to tell you this, or explain what made them so sinful.

Have a great day.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Irish

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2013, 04:54:13 PM »
^This is a great point. Assume a +1, Aaron123.

If sin is the root of disease then you have to assume his/her friends were extra sinful, getting cancer at such a young age.  And since they were so sinful wouldn't they go to hell... and not heaven?
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Online Nam

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2013, 05:07:14 PM »
I really want to smite the OP but I know can't. It's just all kinds of stupid.

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A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

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Offline Tero

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2013, 06:26:35 AM »
Dear puzzled: even though it may be difficult to comprehend, atheists are fully equipped humans.

Ice cream and coffee are still enjoyable. Let us take a walk to the cafe and listen to the spring birds sing. I can name them for you if you are interested.

Puppies and babies are still cute, but not too many.

Have a good life. That's all you get.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: questions [#2732]
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2013, 03:03:54 PM »
I would like to pose a couple of questions to you.

Only if you learn to use paragraph breaks.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.