Pope Francis

[screwtape]

... that it's an election?  As in, the thing I said?

No shit, Mooby.  That is my position as well - it is just an election.  But we were talking about how holy spirits affect the outcome of the election, because all the elderly virgins in dresses were talking about how the holy spirits would be guiding them.  I was wondering why, if the holy spirits were in fact guiding these elderly virgins, they did not come to a unanimous vote.  My conclusion is the holy spirits, if real, don't do shit.  I was asking your conclusion on the matter.

It's as if you are trying to miss the point. 

 

[LoriPinkAngel]

I heard some religious guys on some program say some other religious guys said this is going to be the last pope & he is eventually going to turn into the antipope/antichrist.  Bummer.  The end is near.  I wish I remembered the name of those guys.  Fricken migraines.   

[Nick]

It has something to do with some long lost visionary who said there would not be more than 260? ,or whatever Francis is, before the end.  More BS for the nuts to get all worked up about.

[screwtape]

I heard some religious guys on some program say some other religious guys said this is going to be the last pope & he is eventually going to turn into the antipope/antichrist.  Bummer.  The end is near.  I wish I remembered the name of those guys.  Fricken migraines.   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

[stuffin]

Then what are the reasons god hasn't graced humankind in over 2000 years?

(Why must we rely on faulty humans 2000 years displaced from the actual Christ to make such enormous decisions?)

Catholics believe that God revealed Himself to us in stages, and that the final revelation came with Jesus.

We do believe that God continues to be a presence in our world (most notably through the Holy Spirit), but not in the direct way seen throughout the Bible.

So god is done revealing himself to us and he no longer is a direct presence in the world except through the Holy Spirit.

Slam dunk for Catholics there:

1- God does not have to reveal himself anymore cause the final revelation was his son (who we crucified over 200 years ago).

2- And God no longer affects the world directly but influences it through the Holy Spirit (Ghost).


In stuffin summary; God doesn't have to show his face and uses a undetectable spirit to prove his presence. Seems quite convenient for proving, without having to prove, your god is the real god of the world.

[Mooby]

No shit, Mooby.  That is my position as well - it is just an election.  But we were talking about how holy spirits affect the outcome of the election, because all the elderly virgins in dresses were talking about how the holy spirits would be guiding them.  I was wondering why, if the holy spirits were in fact guiding these elderly virgins, they did not come to a unanimous vote.  My conclusion is the holy spirits, if real, don't do shit.  I was asking your conclusion on the matter.

It's as if you are trying to miss the point.

Again, the cardinals haven't claimed that the Holy Spirit chose the Pope for centuries.  And again, I don't know too much about the inner workings because they are not publicized, and I am a layperson uninvolved in the process.  Again, I believe the Holy Spirit has at least some role in guiding the cardinals, but I don't know the exact role in which this is done.  Again, I can speculate a few reasons why it could be not unanimous despite the Holy Spirit guiding individual cardinals per Reply #20.

So considering what I've already posted in this thread, I do indeed feel that I'm missing your point.

I heard some religious guys on some program say some other religious guys said this is going to be the last pope & he is eventually going to turn into the antipope/antichrist.  Bummer.  The end is near.  I wish I remembered the name of those guys.  Fricken migraines.   

That's the Prophecy of the Popes (linked by another poster), and it is not recognized by the Catholic Church as valid.

So god is done revealing himself to us and he no longer is a direct presence in the world except through the Holy Spirit.

Slam dunk for Catholics there:

1- God does not have to reveal himself anymore cause the final revelation was his son (who we crucified over 200 years ago).

2- And God no longer affects the world directly but influences it through the Holy Spirit (Ghost).


In stuffin summary; God doesn't have to show his face and uses a undetectable spirit to prove his presence. Seems quite convenient for proving, without having to prove, your god is the real god of the world.

It has both convenient and inconvenient aspects for me personally.  But either way, it's what the Church teaches.

[screwtape]

"The entire Church, united with us in prayer, asks for the grace of the Holy Spirit at this moment so that we elect a worthy shepherd for the entire flock of Christ," a cardinal said in Latin as the procession began.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-03-12/news/chi-cardinals-conclave-pope_1_odilo-scherer-german-benedict-sistine-chapel

"It is the way of ensuring that the voice speaking to the cardinals during the conclave belongs to the Holy Spirit and no one else," the Rev. John Wauck, ABC News Vatican consultant, said.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/happen-inside-vatican-conclave-choose-pope/story?id=18607663#.UWi3TEqyLng

Dolan:

“You could just sense that this was in God’s hands — even though that didn’t absolve us of the responsibility and hard work that we needed to do — it was very evident.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/dolan-delivers-emotional-conclave-recap-new-yorkers-gather-st-patrick-celebrate-article-1.1288044

“

I believe the Holy Spirit makes clear which way we should go. And we went that way very quickly.”
...
"There are surprises. That’s a sign of the Holy Spirit, I think.”

http://www.religionnews.com/2013/03/15/the-story-behind-pope-francis-election/

"The whole church, united with us in prayer, insistently invokes the grace of the Holy Spirit so that a worthy pastor for the whole flock of Christ would be elected by us."

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301122.htm


Of course, if you want to doubt they believe what they say, I don't blame you.  Der Popenfurher himself said:

“I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope…I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit’s role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.”

http://abcnews.go.com/International/happen-inside-vatican-conclave-choose-pope/story?id=18607663#.UWi3TEqyLng

Prevents it from being totally ruined.  How comforting.

[Graybeard]

I don't know too much about the inner workings because they are not publicized,

Why might that be? What would be so bad about openness? Transparency? I'm not suggesting democracy - God hates democracy. I'm not even suggesting "Operation Enduring Freedom II" for regime change, though North Korea seems a beacon of advanced liberty compared with the Vatican - The Vatican is filled with secrets. What's the matter with the inhabitants?

[Mooby]

[. . .]

So it appears the news outlets are generally agreeing with my comments in Replies #20/34, where I speculated that the Holy Spirit plays some role but doesn't directly dictate the results?

Why might that be? What would be so bad about openness? Transparency? I'm not suggesting democracy - God hates democracy. I'm not even suggesting "Operation Enduring Freedom II" for regime change, though North Korea seems a beacon of advanced liberty compared with the Vatican - The Vatican is filled with secrets. What's the matter with the inhabitants?

Probably to help stop outside pressures from interfering with the vote.  I personally see no need to press for greater transparency.  Sure, there's always the possibility of a Godfather Part III scenario, but that's not a pressing enough concern for me to start clamoring for a change in procedures.

[screwtape]

So it appears the news outlets are generally agreeing with my comments in Replies #20/34, where I speculated that the Holy Spirit plays some role but doesn't directly dictate the results?

Oh, I guess you didn't read any of the quotes then.  Because that's not what they say.  The cardinals say it is totally the holy spirit.  But some of them are just as confused as you.  In one sentence a cardinal claimed the decision is in God's hands and that is up to them.  And you have Ratzinger all but admitting there is no such thing as a holy spirit. 

[Nick]

The pope came down against the nuns in the USA that wanted to focus on the poor and not social issues like gay marriage and abortion.  Looks like the honeymoon might be over.

[LoriPinkAngel]

The pope came down against the nuns in the USA that wanted to focus on the poor and not social issues like gay marriage and abortion.  Looks like the honeymoon might be over.

He must have hated Mother Theresa.