Author Topic: Three Days  (Read 1307 times)

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Offline stuffin

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Three Days
« on: March 30, 2013, 07:21:20 PM »
Why did it take jesus 3 days to arise from the dead?

Wouldn't it have been far more convincing and impressive if at the moment of his death on the cross he appeared to all (as god's chosen one)?

No, 3 days later in a secluded spot under odd circumstances with (a select) few witnesses he shows his godliness.

And xians aren't even suspisious! Talk about sheeple.....
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Offline Nick

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2013, 07:24:27 PM »
God seems to like the number 3.  I guess it is His number.  Kind of like the devil's number is 6.

I agree...God's big finish was not planned very well.  Big let down and not much for a sequel.
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Offline carstensenscott

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2013, 07:25:30 PM »
Zombie juice took a bit longer to set in back in those days than it does today in hollywood.

Offline Mooby

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2013, 08:11:56 PM »
Jesus' traditional death time is Friday 3 pm, and the empty tomb was traditionally found Sunday at dawn, so we're looking at 38-40 hours (just over 1.5 days.)  This is 3 days via the ancient Jewish calendar (Day 1 = Thurs sunset - Fri sunset, Day 2 = Fri sunset - Sat sunset, Day 3 = Sat sunset to Sun sunset.)

There are a couple of reasons that there was a gap between the death and Resurrection:
- Jesus traditionally descended into hell after His death, where he would have endured an eternity of torture (though only ~40 hours our time);
- 3 was an important number to the Jews, Jesus predicts He would rise on the 3rd day numerous times, and draws a parallel between Himself and Jonah (3 days in the belly of a whale);
- So that He could establish that He was definitely dead.
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Offline stuffin

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2013, 10:06:29 PM »
Jesus' traditional death time is Friday 3 pm, and the empty tomb was traditionally found Sunday at dawn, so we're looking at 38-40 hours (just over 1.5 days.)  This is 3 days via the ancient Jewish calendar (Day 1 = Thurs sunset - Fri sunset, Day 2 = Fri sunset - Sat sunset, Day 3 = Sat sunset to Sun sunset.)

There are a couple of reasons that there was a gap between the death and Resurrection:
- Jesus traditionally descended into hell after His death, where he would have endured an eternity of torture (though only ~40 hours our time);
- 3 was an important number to the Jews, Jesus predicts He would rise on the 3rd day numerous times, and draws a parallel between Himself and Jonah (3 days in the belly of a whale);
- So that He could establish that He was definitely dead.

I thought the Jews didn't have a hell during those fun times (and still don't). Let us not forget jesus was a Jew. How did he get out of hell is another question I have, would think the devil caught a big fish and wouldn't throw it back.


Quote
Jonah is miraculously saved by being swallowed by a large fish specially prepared by God where he spends three days and three nights.[3] In chapter two, while in the great fish, Jonah prays to God in his affliction and commits to thanksgiving and to paying what he has vowed. God commands the fish to spew Jonah out.
Doesn't really help the jesus story IMO.


OK, can agree to insuring he was dead.

It still comes down to bullshit, and thank you for the knowledge. I really appreciate when those who understand the bible can enlighten.
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Offline James501

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 12:04:39 AM »
Jesus' traditional death time is Friday 3 pm, and the empty tomb was traditionally found Sunday at dawn, so we're looking at 38-40 hours (just over 1.5 days.)  This is 3 days via the ancient Jewish calendar (Day 1 = Thurs sunset - Fri sunset, Day 2 = Fri sunset - Sat sunset, Day 3 = Sat sunset to Sun sunset.)

There are a couple of reasons that there was a gap between the death and Resurrection:
- Jesus traditionally descended into hell after His death, where he would have endured an eternity of torture (though only ~40 hours our time);
- 3 was an important number to the Jews, Jesus predicts He would rise on the 3rd day numerous times, and draws a parallel between Himself and Jonah (3 days in the belly of a whale);
- So that He could establish that He was definitely dead.

I am confused about Jesus being dead or not.  You mention Jesus descended into hell after his death; I thought he was dead.  I guess you mean his spirit descended into hell, but his body laid in the grave?  If Jesus was still alive, spiritualy speaking, then did he or did he not die for the sins of all mankind? 
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Offline shnozzola

Re: Three Days
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2013, 09:46:31 AM »
Jesus' traditional death time is Friday 3 pm, and the empty tomb was traditionally found Sunday at dawn, so we're looking at 38-40 hours (just over 1.5 days.)  This is 3 days via the ancient Jewish calendar (Day 1 = Thurs sunset - Fri sunset, Day 2 = Fri sunset - Sat sunset, Day 3 = Sat sunset to Sun sunset.)

There are a couple of reasons that there was a gap between the death and Resurrection:
- Jesus traditionally descended into hell after His death, where he would have endured an eternity of torture (though only ~40 hours our time);
- 3 was an important number to the Jews, Jesus predicts He would rise on the 3rd day numerous times, and draws a parallel between Himself and Jonah (3 days in the belly of a whale);
- So that He could establish that He was definitely dead.

With all due respect Mooby, the stronger of an atheist I become, the more these interpretations of 2000-yr-old studied and debated "fact" that the christian"me" would have accepted, just become more nonsense.
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2013, 12:11:28 PM »
- 3 was an important number to the Jews, Jesus predicts He would rise on the 3rd day numerous times, and draws a parallel between Himself and Jonah (3 days in the belly of a whale)

Any particualr reasons he would do this?  I mean; it's not like Jonah is an especially important story in the bible.
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Offline Mooby

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 05:30:59 PM »
- 3 was an important number to the Jews, Jesus predicts He would rise on the 3rd day numerous times, and draws a parallel between Himself and Jonah (3 days in the belly of a whale)

Any particualr reasons he would do this?  I mean; it's not like Jonah is an especially important story in the bible.
It's not as important to us now, but it may have been more important to the Jews in Jesus' time.  Also, the Gospels place a large emphasis on paralleling Jesus to the Old Testament as a way of legitimizing him as the messiah.
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Offline Schizoid

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 08:05:22 PM »
Why did it take jesus 3 days to arise from the dead?

Well, rising from the dead is not as easy as it might appear so I'm not surprised it took 3 days.  I reckon nobody here has done it quicker than that.  Took me better than a week the last time I managed it even though I wasn't completely dead, but just felt like it.

Offline Bluecolour

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 06:32:20 AM »
There are a couple of reasons that there was a gap between the death and Resurrection:
- Jesus traditionally descended into hell after His death, where he would have endured an eternity of torture (though only ~40 hours our time);
- 3 was an important number to the Jews, Jesus predicts He would rise on the 3rd day numerous times, and draws a parallel between Himself and Jonah (3 days in the belly of a whale);
- So that He could establish that He was definitely dead.

@Mooby
I've never been able to agree with the idea that Jesus endured an eternity of torture during His three days in the tomb. While I'm aware of  its prevalence among many Christians, even the more seasoned ministers and preachers of the Gospel I'm not sure of how traditional the idea really is. I may of course be wrong but the doctrine clashes with my general [though i admit limited] understanding of the Resurrection.
If you could shed some light this way i.e why you believe this, from where and how it's derived and what it adds to the substance of the Gospel that we couldn't do without, it would be a big help.


Offline Nick

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 07:32:31 AM »
Interesting question.  Maybe it was developed to verify the existence of a hell.  Got to keep the sheep in line.
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Offline Mooby

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 01:38:58 PM »
I've never been able to agree with the idea that Jesus endured an eternity of torture during His three days in the tomb. While I'm aware of  its prevalence among many Christians, even the more seasoned ministers and preachers of the Gospel I'm not sure of how traditional the idea really is.
I'm not sure how traditional it is either.  At times in the Gospels Jesus implies (though doesn't directly state) that His spirit was going directly to Heaven.  However, 1 Peter 3 and Ephesians 4 mention that Jesus descended to Hell and preached to the dead, though they don't spend much time talking about it so it's not really clear exactly what happened.

Also, the Apostles Creed gives this sequence:
    was crucified, died and was buried;
    he descended into hell;
    on the third day he rose again from the dead;
    he ascended into heaven,


However, in some versions "descended into hell" is translated as "descended to the dead," which could be taken to mean He was simply physically dead for three days before His bodily resurrection.

The Nicene Creed does not comment on this part:
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven


So in answer to your question, I don't know.  My guess is that it was something Jesus didn't really talk about after His Resurrection, and so it's a bit of a blind spot that Christians have been trying to fill in indirectly ever since.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 01:41:34 PM by Mooby »
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Offline Tero

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 02:53:31 PM »
Story telling tricks. People knew how to count to three.

The Kalevala stories, originatingsome 1500-2000 years ago, have endles sets of 3. 3 girls for Kullervo, 3 days, 3 tasks. Makes up more verses than 1.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2013, 04:21:34 AM »
1 Peter 3 and Ephesians 4 mention that Jesus descended to Hell and preached to the dead, though they don't spend much time talking about it so it's not really clear exactly what happened.

Neither seem to specifically mention Hell.  1 Peter says that:

"...being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison"

- might that not mean Heaven as much as Hell?  Ephesians is even vaguer:

"When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.  (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

But neither one make any mention, at all, of any torments experienced by him, nor of him being there an eternity - both surely crucial matters if they had happened.  1 Peter even makes it clear that he was not in torment, being able to "preach to the spirits" - if you are in agonising torment, then by definition you are not going to be able to string together a coherent sermon.  And how would he get to the spirits anyway?  A hell of "torment" where you can both think clearly AND have the freedom to move around and seek out others.....doesn't seem very terrible to me.

Basically, the Bible says nothing whatsoever about Christ experiencing any suffering.  At all.  Let alone an eternity.  At best, he was dead for three days before he came back to an eternity in heaven.  Big whoop.

Let's not forget one other crucial thing: Christ, apparently, went to Hell.  Saw the suffering that went on there.  Spent 3 days saying "hey guys, god is super!".  And then pushed off back to Heaven and has never again bothered himself with the spirits in hell.....especially the ones who were not there when he was.  That fact alone gives the lie to any "caring" god, as that god leaves Hell functioning despite having experienced it first hand

That's like being given a guided tour of an active torture chamber.  Seeing the people screaming.  Saying to the scremers "hey, why not just tell them what they want to know?"  Being given a quick twist on the thumbscrews so you can say you've done it.  And then going home and doing NOTHING to try to free the people that you saw suffering there.

If Christ did go to hell, that just makes him infinitely worse in my eyes, for his perpetual inaction afterwards.
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2013, 04:40:29 AM »
@Anfauglir

Not to mention, it just doesnt make sense. The way they try to tell the story, Jesus is still supposed to come back wielding a sword in his mouth, where his dad will do his final judgement (which really isnt a judgement at all since its only basis is whether we believed in him or his son or however he chooses to pose the question). Souls arent supposed to be in hell until that judgement, no? If they are in hell, then theyve been judged already and at that point what is the purpose of Jesus preaching to them? As you stated, how can one preach or be preached to in agonizing torment? Three days is not an eternity, is there even a concept of days where there is no sun? This whole idea is just poppycock from every which angle you choose to look at it.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2013, 09:04:31 AM »
- 3 was an important number to the Jews, Jesus predicts He would rise on the 3rd day numerous times, and draws a parallel between Himself and Jonah (3 days in the belly of a whale)

Any particualr reasons he would do this?  I mean; it's not like Jonah is an especially important story in the bible.
It's not as important to us now, but it may have been more important to the Jews in Jesus' time.  Also, the Gospels place a large emphasis on paralleling Jesus to the Old Testament as a way of legitimizing him as the messiah.
Yeah, that whole 'paralleling' thing is a pretty effective literary construct to emphasize connections throughout a narrative.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2013, 10:57:51 AM »
the Gospels place a large emphasis on paralleling Jesus to the Old Testament as a way of legitimizing him as the messiah.

That's right.  When Jesus arrived in Nazareth he stepped out of the mouth of the giant fish that brought him there.  Or was than Jerusalem?
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Offline Cutdogg

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2013, 11:00:09 AM »
And what would the purpose of preaching in hell be? Since they don't get another chance, wouldn't that be the same as getting a doctorate degree if you're on death row?

Offline Energized

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2013, 11:21:34 AM »
1 Peter 3 and Ephesians 4 mention that Jesus descended to Hell and preached to the dead, though they don't spend much time talking about it so it's not really clear exactly what happened.

Neither seem to specifically mention Hell.  1 Peter says that:

"...being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison"

- might that not mean Heaven as much as Hell?  Ephesians is even vaguer:

"When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.  (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

But neither one make any mention, at all, of any torments experienced by him, nor of him being there an eternity - both surely crucial matters if they had happened.  1 Peter even makes it clear that he was not in torment, being able to "preach to the spirits" - if you are in agonising torment, then by definition you are not going to be able to string together a coherent sermon.  And how would he get to the spirits anyway?  A hell of "torment" where you can both think clearly AND have the freedom to move around and seek out others.....doesn't seem very terrible to me.

Basically, the Bible says nothing whatsoever about Christ experiencing any suffering.  At all.  Let alone an eternity.  At best, he was dead for three days before he came back to an eternity in heaven.  Big whoop.

Let's not forget one other crucial thing: Christ, apparently, went to Hell.  Saw the suffering that went on there.  Spent 3 days saying "hey guys, god is super!".  And then pushed off back to Heaven and has never again bothered himself with the spirits in hell.....especially the ones who were not there when he was.  That fact alone gives the lie to any "caring" god, as that god leaves Hell functioning despite having experienced it first hand

That's like being given a guided tour of an active torture chamber.  Seeing the people screaming.  Saying to the scremers "hey, why not just tell them what they want to know?"  Being given a quick twist on the thumbscrews so you can say you've done it.  And then going home and doing NOTHING to try to free the people that you saw suffering there.

If Christ did go to hell, that just makes him infinitely worse in my eyes, for his perpetual inaction afterwards.

Absolutely.

What was the point in "ministering" to the dead? To rub it in? To tell them they made a mistake for not believing and, shucks, it sucks to be you?

Did the devil give him a "do not harm" pass? If not, how was he able to endure the suffering of those who went before him? Did he use his powers as god to numb his senses?

This whole descended into hell is so stupid. I mean, I can imagine a prison warden going around to visit the convicts to let them know what the rules are. But if Jesus was trying to minister to souls under excruciating pain, screaming as fire strips the skin off their bones over and over again, how effective was his preaching?

Why can't christians see that this whole story is so ridiculous and insincere to the point of laughter?

I recall commenting on another message board that this whole story of "suffering" was a joke. People told me that I couldn't understand the burden of Jesus taking on ALL of mankind's sins to the point his father had to turn his face away (hence the, "My god! My god! Why hast thou forsaken me?" line). But if he went to hell and wasn't affected by it, ministered to souls who likely couldn't hear him over their screams of torment, then what in the hell was the point? Symbolism? Fuck off.

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« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 11:26:28 AM by Energized »
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2013, 05:18:45 PM »
Why did it take jesus 3 days to arise from the dead?

Rising on the 1st day would seem anticlimactic. Rising on the 4th day would start another news cycle and re-inspire the believers. Any later and people would have said "Who are you talking about?"



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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2013, 10:00:57 AM »
Why did it take jesus 3 days to arise from the dead?

Rising on the 1st day would seem anticlimactic. Rising on the 4th day would start another news cycle and re-inspire the believers. Any later and people would have said "Who are you talking about?"

And 5 is right out!
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: Three Days
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2013, 10:37:22 AM »
Why did it take jesus 3 days to arise from the dead?

Rising on the 1st day would seem anticlimactic. Rising on the 4th day would start another news cycle and re-inspire the believers. Any later and people would have said "Who are you talking about?"

any more than 4 would also have meant Lazarus "got better" quicker than Jesus