Author Topic: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...  (Read 15784 times)

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Offline median

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #203 on: July 13, 2013, 10:17:17 AM »
^^^^^   It has been said before but I will say it again:

"If you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people." - House
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 10:18:58 AM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #204 on: July 13, 2013, 10:24:07 AM »
So, no matter how much Kiran had prayed, he would have ended up in hospital because THAT is what god had decided to do.

How would I know?  I can't run both tests at the same time.
If I run one test, I don't know the outcome of the second test.
So I don't know if there would be a result or not.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #205 on: July 13, 2013, 03:17:43 PM »
This whole "God caused X physical event to happen to someone in order to achieve Y" thing is really confusing in light of SkyWriting's other belief, here:

God does his work on earth through believers and has no direct control of matter.

How'd he go about causing the injury, then?

Why to bad things happen to good people?  Our environment is not under the control of God.

Alright.  Makes sense.  Care to respond to what I wrote in the post you quoted, now?  You've said that God does physical things.  You've also said that God never does physical things.

Both of these statements cannot be true.  Please pick one.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #206 on: July 13, 2013, 03:26:28 PM »
All,
Please be patient with SkyWriting.  He is on moderated status, which means all his posts must be approved by a moderator.

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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline ghost

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #207 on: July 13, 2013, 10:05:45 PM »
Everyone is just commenting "Oh, why doesn't he just give people their limb(s) back?". I'll just share my personal belief. EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON. For example:

9/11: Airport and aircraft security was greatly improved, preventing what could have been many more hijacks.

World War II: Improved Germany's Economy, introduced the world to the Atomic bomb, and a whole new world of technology.

I know that's not many examples, but do some yourself. Find a tragedy, worldwide or personal. Of course, maybe you won't be able to think of it, and possibly the reason will be shown in the future. But like I said, EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON, even if you don't think it's worth it.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #208 on: July 13, 2013, 10:52:14 PM »
Alright.  Makes sense.  Care to respond to what I wrote in the post you quoted, now?  You've said that God does physical things.  You've also said that God never does physical things.

Both of these statements cannot be true.  Please pick one.

The two quotes you've provided are the answer I would give based on my experiences.
God works through the minds of people in anticipation of prayers He already knows
will be coming sometime in "the future".  He knows what is going to be prayed, and
influences people to provide any needed solutions.  In my experience, things I have
prayed for were taken care of by God far ahead of time by His influence on their actions.

I could be wrong in my analysis.  It's possible that God manipulated my prayers to match upcomming events.  Either way, the end result, from my perspective, is answered
prayer in my life.  Some have credited "random chance" but that would be like your
response to this post just happens to be on the same topic. 

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #209 on: July 13, 2013, 10:56:16 PM »
Everyone is just commenting "Oh, why doesn't he just give people their limb(s) back?". I'll just share my personal belief. EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON. For example:

9/11: Airport and aircraft security was greatly improved, preventing what could have been many more hijacks.

World War II: Improved Germany's Economy, introduced the world to the Atomic bomb, and a whole new world of technology.

I know that's not many examples, but do some yourself. Find a tragedy, worldwide or personal. Of course, maybe you won't be able to think of it, and possibly the reason will be shown in the future. But like I said, EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON, even if you don't think it's worth it.

I agree that everything happens for a reason, but I usually focus on creating a good response as the top prioity.  In other words, it is our responsibility to respond well to bad news.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #210 on: July 13, 2013, 10:58:51 PM »
^^^^^   It has been said before but I will say it again:

"If you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people." - House

Boob Tube / Idiot-Box characters are next to holiness and more accessible than Gandhi is.

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #211 on: July 13, 2013, 11:15:39 PM »
^^^There is a big difference between things happening for a reason and there being a reason that things happen.

Your attempt to mix your fantasies in with our realities can't end well. While I was just as naive as you when I was younger, I snapped out of it around my first birthday.  Somewhere in there I learned that when bad shit happens, there isn't necessarily good shit mixed in. Sometimes it is just plain bad, through and through. And there is often no good to come from it, unless your homework assignment is to find 33 dead bodies and bring them to school for show and tell. Otherwise, death and mayhem are often indeed tragedies, with no socially redeeming qualities whatsoever.

And while I understand that you are a little concerned that there aren't yet any cute little nursery rhymes about gulf oil spills or the three women in Ohio that were kidnapped and raped daily for years, I suggest you pay more attention to the human condition and learn to ignore your wistful desire for good to come out of everything. It ain't in the bible, it ain't in the kama sutra, and it ain't a contestant on American Idol. You've made it up. Figure that out and come up with something new. Preferably something that is realistic as well.

Added: Five years from now, when you go to get on an airplane and have to strip naked along with the other passengers, and, like them, get handcuffed, blindfolded, gagged and tied to your seat, I'm pretty sure you'll reconsider your wonder-filled assessment of the good that has come from 9/11. The secret of life is to figure those things out sooner.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 11:22:03 PM by ParkingPlaces »
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline median

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #212 on: July 14, 2013, 11:39:58 AM »
^^^^^   It has been said before but I will say it again:

"If you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people." - House

Boob Tube / Idiot-Box characters are next to holiness and more accessible than Gandhi is.

And you've just revealed (in raving colors) how absolutely fucking illogical you are willing to be in order to prop up your failed beliefs which you refuse to provide evidence for.

What you just attempted was called an Argumentum Ad Hominem. Look it up! Arguments stand or fall upon their own merits, regardless of who made them. So, your attempt to discredit a statement purely based upon who made that statement is...B B BULLSHIT.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline median

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #213 on: July 14, 2013, 11:42:23 AM »
Everyone is just commenting "Oh, why doesn't he just give people their limb(s) back?". I'll just share my personal belief. EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON. For example:

9/11: Airport and aircraft security was greatly improved, preventing what could have been many more hijacks.

World War II: Improved Germany's Economy, introduced the world to the Atomic bomb, and a whole new world of technology.

I know that's not many examples, but do some yourself. Find a tragedy, worldwide or personal. Of course, maybe you won't be able to think of it, and possibly the reason will be shown in the future. But like I said, EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON, even if you don't think it's worth it.

The problem with your argument here is that you have provided no evidence for thinking that "everything happens for [God's] reason" - and this is b/c you haven't provided any reason for thinking there is such a thing.

Even if one agreed that everything happens for a reason, it doesn't in any way mean that they were good reasons.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #214 on: July 14, 2013, 08:42:16 PM »
In my brief new age phase (between being religious and deciding it was all bunk) I tried to believe that "everything happens for a reason" and "there are no accidents". I had been through some pretty awful experiences and was trying to make sense of them that way. Some good has to come out of every thing bad, or else we are just at the mercy of chance. Right?

Until reality kicked back in. People don't always get over tragedies; they are sometimes completely destroyed by them. There is not a single good thing that can balance out the genocide of an entire ethnic group, the sexual assault of  children, the flattening of a whole town to a tornado, a team of firefighters burning to death. 

And it is not just the loss of life and property. Suicide, consuming grief, death by drugs or alcohol abuse, severe depression, PTSD or other illnesses are common reactions to surviving horrible experiences. Some people are never able to recover. They are doomed to be institutionalized, to live on charity or to rely on others for support. These are very painful and costly to families and to societies overall.

You can try to scrape together some good out of the bad, you can look for some positive things that might not have happened otherwise. But for every single tragedy, problem or accident that connects to some good outcome, there is a far less painful, less harmful, less costly way that same positive thing could have come about. That is why "god is trying to do some good" is a piss-poor excuse for bad things happening.

If a god wants our attention, he/she/it needs to show up for real and get it in an unambiguous, obvious way. Let everyone know what god you are and exactly what you want--in clear, easily understandable terms.

Don't send a bunch of crazy-a$$ prophets or mysterious messages on the bark of trees. Don't burn an image of your mom on a piece of toast or a tortilla. Don't send a tsunami to Japan, drop a building on Bangladeshi workers, or run a bus over some woman on her way to work, and hope that we can figure it out from there.

That kind of sh!t is not clear, not nice, and will make me NOT want to worship or even believe!
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #215 on: July 15, 2013, 03:09:00 AM »
So, no matter how much Kiran had prayed, he would have ended up in hospital because THAT is what god had decided to do.

How would I know?  I can't run both tests at the same time.
If I run one test, I don't know the outcome of the second test.
So I don't know if there would be a result or not.

You don't need to conduct the experiment, IF your prior assertions are correct.

You asserted that god does not change what happens based on prayer.

Therefore, if Kiran ends up in hospital, it is because your god wanted it that way.

I don't know why you are finding it so hard to grasp - its all based on what YOU said happens.

If, on the other hand, you wish to make the claim that you can NOT say what would have happened in other circumstances, then you can NOT assert that your god ever did anything in your life because (as you have admitted) you have no way of proving otherwise.

Entirely up to you which way you want to play it.  Just pick one, and stick with it.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #216 on: July 15, 2013, 08:05:03 AM »
In my brief new age phase (between being religious and deciding it was all bunk) I tried to believe that "everything happens for a reason" and "there are no accidents". I had been through some pretty awful experiences and was trying to make sense of them that way. Some good has to come out of every thing bad, or else we are just at the mercy of chance. Right?

Almost exactly the same thing happened to me.  Long story short is an expression whose origins are complicated and meandering.  Oh, sorry.

Long story short is that when I was a senior in high school, I became romantically involved with a woman who was severely mentally ill, but at my age, I lacked sufficient life experience to understand what the problem was.  As a result, I got very heavily into drug use and plunged myself into the New Age movement myself, mostly embracing the worldview espoused by Richard Bach in "Illusions" (which I'm sure you're familiar with).  I don't think I ever actually believed any of it, but I desperately wanted to because, like you, I didn't want to believe that lousy things that happen are just lousy things that happen.  My own New Age phase lasted from age 18 until about 22-ish or thereabouts, at which point it began to fade -- not long after that, I went to college, and after acquiring a lot more learning in a variety of areas, I abandoned all of it completely and embraced materialism and philosophical naturalism.  It wasn't until some years after that that I realized that it's actually a lot more comforting to realize that lousy things that happen really are just lousy things that happen, and it would actually be far more horrifying if everything happened for a reason.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #217 on: July 15, 2013, 10:40:29 AM »
You don't need to conduct the experiment, IF your prior assertions are correct.

There is no aspect of science that allows for this statement.
Testing never stops.  Even the most basic laws of science
are retested on a regular basis.  The reason being that
science never proves anything.  It can only guess the results
of a future experiment and hope that all the same previous
conditions were met and the result will be the same.

Prior assertions are never assumed correct and must be
continually retested. That is science.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 04:01:28 PM by SkyWriting »

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #218 on: July 15, 2013, 10:46:52 AM »
And you've just revealed (in raving colors) how absolutely fucking illogical you are willing to be in order to prop up your failed beliefs which you refuse to provide evidence for. What you just attempted was called an Argumentum Ad Hominem. Look it up! Arguments stand or fall upon their own merits, regardless of who made them. So, your attempt to discredit a statement purely based upon who made that statement is...B B BULLSHIT.

The Ad Hominem defense is not normally used to defend Idiot Box characters.
But I agree that House is a Holy-Man and his TV character should be worshiped.
Not by me, but by others who worship his wit and cutting banter.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 03:58:41 PM by SkyWriting »

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #219 on: July 15, 2013, 03:21:14 PM »
^^^Agreed.
If bad things just kinda happen, we have some hope of fixing situations, so bad things happen less often. If bad things happen "for a reason" controlled by some supernatural force, we can't very well fix the bad without ruining the good. Right?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #220 on: July 15, 2013, 04:03:31 PM »
^^^Agreed.
If bad things just kinda happen, we have some hope of fixing situations, so bad things happen less often. If bad things happen "for a reason" controlled by some supernatural force, we can't very well fix the bad without ruining the good. Right?

God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #221 on: July 16, 2013, 03:08:18 AM »
You don't need to conduct the experiment, IF your prior assertions are correct.

There is no aspect of science that allows for this statement. .....

Fortunately, you don't believe in science as I understand it, so the point should presumably be irrelevant for you.  But good try dodging the question.  Let me rephrase it so I can remove your chosen bar to answering it.

So, no matter how much Kiran had prayed, he would have ended up in hospital because THAT is what god had decided to do.

How would I know?  I can't run both tests at the same time.
If I run one test, I don't know the outcome of the second test.
So I don't know if there would be a result or not.

You asserted that god does not change what happens based on prayer.

Therefore, if Kiran ends up in hospital, it is because your god wanted it that way.

I don't know why you are finding it so hard to grasp - its all based on what YOU said happens.

If, on the other hand, you wish to make the claim that you can NOT say what would have happened in other circumstances, then you can NOT assert that your god ever did anything in your life because (as you have admitted) you have no way of proving otherwise.

Of course, if (as you asserted above) you can NOT in any way test your assertion, then I'm sure you will stop making it, and agree with the paragraph I've highlighted in blue.

Entirely up to you which way you want to play it.  Just pick one, and stick with it. 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #222 on: July 16, 2013, 03:17:38 AM »
^^^Agreed.
If bad things just kinda happen, we have some hope of fixing situations, so bad things happen less often. If bad things happen "for a reason" controlled by some supernatural force, we can't very well fix the bad without ruining the good. Right?

God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.

I prefer Calvin & Hobbes: "The strength to change what I can, the inability to accept what I can't, and the incapacity to tell the difference."   ;D
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #223 on: July 16, 2013, 08:48:43 AM »
If, on the other hand, you wish to make the claim that you can NOT say what would have happened in other circumstances, then you can NOT assert that your god ever did anything in your life because (as you have admitted) you have no way of proving otherwise.

Sorry, I thought I covered that.  The "miracle" in my answered prayers is the conversation
in my mind with God, just before my prayers are answered.  Because the conversation
is internal, there is no outside proof.   Either God changes the world, or he changes me
so that I ask for what's in store for me. Or maybe a combination.  I don't know which.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #224 on: July 17, 2013, 03:25:20 AM »
If, on the other hand, you wish to make the claim that you can NOT say what would have happened in other circumstances, then you can NOT assert that your god ever did anything in your life because (as you have admitted) you have no way of proving otherwise.

Sorry, I thought I covered that.  The "miracle" in my answered prayers is the conversation
in my mind with God, just before my prayers are answered.  Because the conversation
is internal, there is no outside proof.   Either God changes the world, or he changes me
so that I ask for what's in store for me. Or maybe a combination.  I don't know which.

Hypothesis:  The only powers that your god has, are an ability to communicate with you in your mind, and an awareness of everything that is going on.  The way the world will unfold is uninfluenced by your god.  Your god only communicates with you to "answer" a prayer when it sees that the world is unfolding in a way that gives you the answer you want.

How would you establish that that hypothesis was incorrect, given your previous assertions that your god will not change his decision on any physical effects he will have on the world?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #225 on: July 17, 2013, 03:31:42 AM »
I almost missed this dodge - you're good, I'll give you that.

You asserted that god does not change what happens based on prayer.

Therefore, if Kiran ends up in hospital, it is because your god wanted it that way.

I don't know why you are finding it so hard to grasp - its all based on what YOU said happens.

If, on the other hand, you wish to make the claim that you can NOT say what would have happened in other circumstances, then you can NOT assert that your god ever did anything in your life because (as you have admitted) you have no way of proving otherwise.

The "miracle" in my answered prayers is the conversation in my mind with God, just before my prayers are answered.  Because the conversation is internal, there is no outside proof.   Either God changes the world, or he changes me so that I ask for what's in store for me. Or maybe a combination.  I don't know which.

Are you now moving away from your previously very definite position, and saying that perhaps your god DOES change the world - change his mind - in response to prayer?

Will your god divert from the action HE wants to take, to account for our beliefs/desires/prayers?
No.  Never.  Not in a million years.

Because you were very positive that didn't happen.

As I've said, I wish you would stick to one story Sky, it makes it very hard to establish what the heck you really believe.  I can only conclude that you've never been held to account for your views before?

Given that you are unable to provide a consistent picture of your god, can you understand why you give us very, very little reason to tust anything you say?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #226 on: July 17, 2013, 07:42:09 AM »
If, on the other hand, you wish to make the claim that you can NOT say what would have happened in other circumstances, then you can NOT assert that your god ever did anything in your life because (as you have admitted) you have no way of proving otherwise.

Sorry, I thought I covered that.  The "miracle" in my answered prayers is the conversation
in my mind with God, just before my prayers are answered.  Because the conversation
is internal, there is no outside proof.   Either God changes the world, or he changes me
so that I ask for what's in store for me. Or maybe a combination.  I don't know which.

Hypothesis:  The only powers that your god has, are an ability to communicate with you in your mind, and an awareness of everything that is going on.  The way the world will unfold is uninfluenced by your god.  Your god only communicates with you to "answer" a prayer when it sees that the world is unfolding in a way that gives you the answer you want.

How would you establish that that hypothesis was incorrect, given your previous assertions that your god will not change his decision on any physical effects he will have on the world?

I am positive that God changes the world through the actions of people who are "tuned in" to His desires.  I read similar statements from scores of people who have acted on such guidance and witnesses the results myself.  Because God is not subject to time, He doesn't change.  But our world can.  It is subject to change.  Experiments bare this out.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #227 on: July 31, 2013, 08:15:55 AM »
Sorry Sky - I didn't see an answer, just "well, I think....."

Hypothesis:  The only powers that your god has, are an ability to communicate with you in your mind, and an awareness of everything that is going on.  The way the world will unfold is uninfluenced by your god.  Your god only communicates with you to "answer" a prayer when it sees that the world is unfolding in a way that gives you the answer you want.

How would you establish that that hypothesis was incorrect, given your previous assertions that your god will not change his decision on any physical effects he will have on the world?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #228 on: July 31, 2013, 08:20:45 AM »
....but this paragraph does speak to the "does god change the world" question that you still haven't clarified.

I am positive that God changes the world through the actions of people who are "tuned in" to His desires. 

Okay, let's stop there.  So are you saying that god has desires that do NOT come to fruition because not enough people are "tuned in to his desires"?  That seems to contradict what you've been saying previously - that the world will always turn out a particular way because that's the way your god wants it.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #229 on: July 31, 2013, 03:02:19 PM »
There does seem to be that trap for Christian religious people who say that god is both powerful and good-- the pesky problem of evil.

If people are free to do good or bad things, where does god come in? Does he just sit back and watch, or does he intervene? If he does intervene, what criteria does he use to decide when and how? And why is it so hard to tell if god has intervened or not, since nothing obviously supernatural (like a child's missing arm reappearing after the parents pray, or a tornado skipping around all the Christian homes in a neighborhood) ever happens?

And what about things that people don't do, but are just good or bad situations, presumably created or at least approved of by god? Like one kid being born to rich European parents and never lacking for anything vs a kid being born in a war-torn country in the middle of a famine?

Either the world is exactly the way god wants it to be, good along with the bad, or it is not the way god wants it to be. If the world is not the way god wants it, what kind of wimpy half-baked god is that? If it is the way god wants it, you have to explain why god wants so many bad things to happen to some people and not to others.

Enter Christian excuses: mysterious ways, free will, vague platitudes, sketchy anecdotes and circular reasoning. I keep returning to the explanation given by the Hindu belief in reincarnation and karma-- you are being punished or rewarded in this life for whatever you did in a previous life. There is no evidence supporting it either, but at least it makes internal sense. And has the added benefit of not requiring anyone to take any action. &)

Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline epidemic

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #230 on: August 13, 2013, 08:03:28 AM »
Everyone is just commenting "Oh, why doesn't he just give people their limb(s) back?". I'll just share my personal belief. EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON. For example:

9/11: Airport and aircraft security was greatly improved, preventing what could have been many more hijacks.

World War II: Improved Germany's Economy, introduced the world to the Atomic bomb, and a whole new world of technology.

I know that's not many examples, but do some yourself. Find a tragedy, worldwide or personal. Of course, maybe you won't be able to think of it, and possibly the reason will be shown in the future. But like I said, EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON, even if you don't think it's worth it.

Ok airport and aircraft security was improved???  How is that a good thing?  Wouldn't it be better to not need aircraft security.

WWII improved german economy at a cost of 10's of millions of lives and untold suffering,  Couldn't god have thought of a less destructive way to improve an economy?  Yeah we have the atomic bomb because of WWII, is that a good thing?  Perhaps god should have inspired someone to make a better solar power in 1938 and we could be on a green path.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why wont God Heal Amputees? Because He wants to heal their hearts...
« Reply #231 on: August 13, 2013, 10:37:03 AM »
That's a pretty sad argument, that you can look back on everything horrible and dig out a diamond from the mountain of sh!t. If there was a powerful, loving, kind being in charge, he could certainly give us the diamonds without the sh!t. And most of the mountains don't have any diamonds.

Human beings manage to persevere and survive on this planet in spite of the universe being tremendously hostile to all life forms.  But survival does not have to be pretty. Much of the time it is not. We are a resilient and adaptable species, like cockroaches.

There is no upside to child soldiers, genocide, human trafficking, drug addiction, natural disasters, extinction of species, nuclear plant accidents. That does not mean we just give up-- life is a wonderful thing and beautiful marvels happen every day. In spite of the sh!t mountains, not because of them.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.