Author Topic: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)  (Read 1318 times)

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Offline kcrady

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"The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« on: March 16, 2013, 09:12:22 PM »


I just love his excitement and joy in this. :D
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

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Offline junebug72

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2013, 06:37:53 AM »
Hello k,

I'm junebug, nice to meet you.  I am not an atheist, I believe in God. I believe in Creation.  What I don't believe is that insulting people is the way to introduce them to God and your signature is very offensive.  Jesus said to Love one another, remember?  Just saying. :) 

Godbless
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline kcrady

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2013, 07:47:05 AM »
Wha?  I'm not sure how my signature is supposed to insult Christians, seeing as it doesn't mention them.  If it's the very mention of the idea that atheists could be, "you know, right" that "insults" you, then...I guess you'd better keep your clutching pearls and fainting couch handy.  Jesus also said to give all your money away to the poor.  Somehow I doubt that you've done that.  If you, who worship the guy, won't do everything he says, don't expect me to.  Or do you think I'm a Christian insulting atheists due to the title of this thread?  In that case, I suggest you watch the video. :)
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline Seppuku

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2013, 08:17:14 AM »
If you find his signature offensive, the first thing I would suggest is to look up where the quote is coming from and understand why it's quoted.

Here is the article it's quoted from.

Here is one by the same author about atheism and anger.

I would suggest reading all the way through both of them, I think the blog writer expresses things very well and very clearly.

I think it's worth trying to understand. The fact you find just the quote from his signature offensive is a demonstration of part of the problem, because it's not even an attack on Christians. It's just saying the argument of whether we're right or wrong is sidestepped for people thinking atheists are just jerks, which is far from the case. I am sure some atheists are jerks or can be jerks towards people, but others are just angry, first it's better to understand why they're angry rather than to just pass them as intolerant jerks and second it's better to not throw everybody into the same crowd. Atheists have struggled to find themselves accepted by society, so it's only natural that the atheism movement is going to be angry and even provocative. There's very little an atheist has to do to offend somebody, unfortunately, by finding a signature that was not an attack on theism offensive proves the point.

If you don't want atheists to be angry, then don't anger them. There's many Christians (and other theists) out there who don't manage to do so and some who do understand the plight and are ready to accept atheists for who they are and not try to push them away. Heck, the person quoted in kcrady's signature recognises it in the article he's quoted from, she made a special note to recognise that there were Christians who were tolerant and even appreciative of the actions mentioned in the article rather than to put them in the same category as the intolerant ones. Generally we recognise that not all Christians are the same and can't be wiped by the same brush. It's how we've had some Christians on this forum we've got along with and quite liked (like Magic Miles and Old Church Guy), it's how I have Christian friends and never feel awkward around Christian family members. I view them as 'the good guys'. Yes, I even have a friend who's a creationist that doesn't believe in evolution, but is not offended by my views as an atheist, in fact, we're both very open to each other. I have a Muslim friend who doesn't believe homosexuality is right, yet he's tolerant (even of gay people) and doesn't force his views onto anybody, so I don't actually have a problem with him. I don't force my views on him either.



By the way, that video was pretty awesome, I too loved the passion behind what he was saying. I can see the man has a great love for what he does and makes it almost poetic. However, I am sure this is the kind of thing people would use as ammunition to compare science to religion, but he's basing it more on the emotions involved with the sense of discovery and exploration and the amazement of discovery what we're made of rather than religious dogma or the validity of claims.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 08:39:50 AM by Seppuku »
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Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2013, 09:11:50 AM »
I think JB read the title of the thread, skipped the video, and read the signature and figured kcrady was a theist. Then JB admonished kcrady under that context for being offensive to atheists, which I can appreciate. However, all of this confusion couldve been sidestepped if JB knew kcrady was an atheist, and had JB watched the video.

But of course I'm just speculating.

Either way, you usually cant go wrong listening to NDGT

Offline Seppuku

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2013, 09:34:39 AM »
When you look at it that way, it makes a lot of sense. Perhaps JB can clarify, if I've got the wrong end of the stick, my apologies. ;)
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2013, 10:27:54 AM »
Junebug, you insult to easy. You might consider a different profession.

As an atheist, I have generic views on the religious. I understand completely that they don't apply in every case. I understand that the fundy who got so mad at me that he stood a foot away and yelled at me that I was going to hell, and as he yelled sprayed spittle all over my face, is not typical. I also understand that the sweet, gentle theists who care about me no matter what I believe are not typical.

Generally speaking, we get very few theists on this site who are good humans that we would be proud to have as friends, and we gets lots who, even with the  internet in the way, spray spittle all over our faces as we try to discuss our views with them. We do not feel obliged to kow-tow to their every request.

To expect little things like sigs to meet your every requirement is asking too much. Free speech has its costs. Including the fact that it is at times received as an insult. As long as we're not shooting at you at the same time, you might work on being a bit more accepting of our differences. You'll be far less effective at arguing your case if you feel a need to diss us for not being your version of acceptable.

And as for the OP, yay Neil. I love the guy. I wish someone had been as enthusiastic and accessible when I was nine years old. Had they been, perhaps I too could be sitting atop a cold mountain staring off into space. Right now.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline su27

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2013, 10:33:30 AM »
I love Tyson, he is my new Carl Sagan.

Here is one good video for all these thinking life without god has no meaning:


Offline Nick

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2013, 12:05:25 PM »
Thanks su27,
  That is better than any church service ever was.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2013, 01:33:56 PM »
I am not an atheist, I believe in God. I believe in Creation.  What I don't believe is that insulting people is the way to introduce them to God and your signature is very offensive.  Jesus said to Love one another, remember?  Just saying.

"Creationists have lost in the courts of law; they've long ago lost in the halls of science; and they continue to lose with every new piece of evidence in support of evolution.  Taking offense is all they've got left."  (Richard Dawkins)
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Offline Garja

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2013, 03:06:08 PM »
I actually got to meet dr Tyson about a week ago (was friggin awesome). The line to touch me forms here:
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline Graybeard

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2013, 03:10:25 PM »
Jesus said to Love one another, remember?  Just saying. :) 

He actually said (Mark 12:31) The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Many Christians, unwilling to hear what Christ really said, imagine that He was as ""Fluffy-Bunny" "Hug a tree" as they are. You cannot blame them too much, as this is what pastors and priests, hungry for their money, tell them - because this is what the sheep want to hear.

What He actually said was: "Lu:19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Atheists are the enemy of God: 2 Chronicles 15:13 Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

More than that, you have to ask yourself, "Who is my neighbor?" Well, Let's look in the Bible:

God Hates
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8 ), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8 ), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8 ), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8 ), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8 ), All Liars (Revelation 21:8 )

so it is none of these.

So who else?

Well, Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

so that excludes a few more.

and

M't:10:6: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
M't:15:24: But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

so to be a "neighbor, who should be loved, you have to be a Jew, not hated by God, and believe in Jesus - these people you can love. The rest can go to hell.

Just saying...
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline kcrady

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2013, 08:03:16 PM »
And therefore, Junebug would be a better deity than her god.  :)
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2013, 08:41:06 PM »
Jesus said to Love one another, remember?  Just saying.


Quote
(Graybeard)

He actually said (Mark 12:31) The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Many Christians, unwilling to hear what Christ really said, imagine that He was as ""Fluffy-Bunny" "Hug a tree" as they are.

Actually, neither of you is correct, for if the Jesus character even existed, nobody recorded one word of his during his alleged life.  As we know, it was all orated, penned, and placed on his lips decades later, so there's no possible way to know what such a character might have said at all.

I often get a chuckle when I hear xtians say: "Jesus said this" or "Jesus said that".



Looking for Jesus in history is like looking down a well: You see only your own reflection.  (Albert Schweitzer)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 11:27:25 PM by Star Stuff »
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Offline JeffPT

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2013, 10:18:46 PM »
I remember a time when my girlfriend (at the time, now my wife) and I were living in our first apartment together and she introduced me to Irish step dancing.  I was about 5 years into college at the time and I was taking some heavy duty classes like neuroscience, kinesiology, physics, etc, and I had a fairly good working knowledge of many processes that went into making a muscle move.  By that time, it had already begun to amaze me how much went into just twitching my big toe. 

I don't know why it hit me the way it did, but the moment I saw them doing that dancing on the television, I started crying.  Like... heavy crying.  To know how much went into it, and that a human being has the capability of moving that fast, with that much accuracy and to a specific cadence was, for me, overwhelming.  It think it was the same sort of moment that NDT had when he talked about the iron in our bodies and how he wanted to go up to every person he could and grab them by the shirt and tell them about it. I felt the same thing.  I guess it was as close to a 'spiritual moment' in my career as I've ever had.  I still think it's awesome. 

Yes, my wife did think I was nuts... thanks for asking. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline kcrady

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2013, 10:28:59 PM »
Oh, I dunno 'bout that.  You were her boyfriend at the time, now her husband.  Obviously, she decided you're a keeper. ;)
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline kcrady

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2013, 10:59:54 PM »
Speaking of teary-eyed "spiritual" moments:



"These beings, with soaring imaginations eventually flung themselves and their machines, into interplanetary space."  Gets me every time. :D
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline kin hell

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2013, 03:43:48 AM »

"These beings, with soaring imaginations eventually flung themselves and their machines, into interplanetary space."  Gets me every time. :D

ditto
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Tykster

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2013, 01:02:09 PM »
BM
rhocam ~ I guess there are several trillion cells in a man, and one in an amoeba, so to be generous, lets say that there were a billion. That is one every fifteen years. So in my lifetime I should have seen two evolutionary changes.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2013, 03:24:22 PM »
Jesus said to Love one another, remember?  Just saying.

Quote
(Graybeard)

He actually said (Mark 12:31) The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Many Christians, unwilling to hear what Christ really said, imagine that He was as ""Fluffy-Bunny" "Hug a tree" as they are.

Actually, neither of you is correct, for if the Jesus character even existed, nobody recorded one word of his during his alleged life.
Yes, you’d like that to be true, wouldn’t you?

But how do you explain the Naked Young Man?

M'r:14:51: And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him:
M'r:14:52: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.


And what about this:

Mark:16:4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.
6 “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.’”

Theologians have, throughout the centuries, wondered who the man was. God has told me that he was Jesus’s biographer, and he went around with a typewriter (that Jesus invented) recording absolutely everything that Jesus said and did. I’m sure there is Scripture for this.

On another note, I’m not going to write “The Bible alleges that…” before every verse I quote.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2013, 03:28:28 PM »
Just sayin'......




 :)
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Offline Tonus

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Re: "The Greatest Sermon Ever" (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2013, 05:53:14 PM »
6 “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.’”
So Jesus didn't die a virgin...