Author Topic: ignorance & blind faith  (Read 1044 times)

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Offline t68i

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ignorance & blind faith
« on: March 13, 2013, 10:10:43 AM »
sorry but i need to vent a little  :P
i have a friend who no matter what i tell him simply refuse to believe in evolution and science... i tell him the earth is formed billions and billions of years ago from particles and gases & life as well as humans evolved from single cell organisms... heck I even took him to science museums where this stuff is on displayed! but what pisses me off the most is his response to all of this? "you are telling me we came from gases?!? LOL!!! look at how perfect we are! our blood, heart, limb, etc... everything fits together so perfectly and you are telling me we came from gases and evolved from monkeys?!?!? you can come from that stuff but GOD MADE ME!"

and, i'm not joking here, but he actually believes woman came from a rib inside a man... and that is why we have expressions like "you are a part of me"...

i don't know what to do with someone that is so blind and refuses to accept anything else...

btw, he went to a christian school since elementary level so I asked him "if you didn't go to a christian school when you were a kid, would you have grown up to believe in god and stuff like this?"  He said "OF COURSE!"  which I know is basically a lie... he only believe it like this because he was bombarded with the info since little... kinda like how people living in communist countries are being brainwashed...

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 10:40:18 AM »
Ask you friend why god allows there to be so many different religions when only one is true. Is there not enough room in heaven for everyone?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nick

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 02:02:18 PM »
Ask him why God hates amputees?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 07:09:55 PM »
Ask him about evolution in Christianity......that should be worth a laugh.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Schizoid

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 06:41:21 AM »
There are millions of humans where everything does not fit together so perfectly.  In fact, some things are missing altogether.

With science, everything has to be explained and there needs to be proof.  Theories are challenged and must be defended.

With Christianity, when something cannot be explained, by default god gets the credit. 

Now as far as amputees are concerned, when the time comes when science and medicine can commonly "heal" amputees whether mechanically or otherwise, Christians will give god the credit by default since they would claim that god gave scientists and doctors the knowledge and skill needed to accomplish that.  That's how Christians will always give god the credit, but never any blame.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 07:00:11 AM »
show em youtubes videos of Edward Current

Offline Tonus

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 08:22:46 AM »
i don't know what to do with someone that is so blind and refuses to accept anything else...
That depends on how deep the core beliefs are embedded in his subconscious.  Some people will come around, some will not.  I was probably as bad as your friend when I was young and a devout believer.  I would simply not entertain any ideas that did not fit into my core beliefs.  Anything that threatened that, I would find a way to rationalize away.  And keep in mind, for a Christian there is always the ultimate cop-out: Satan is trying to confuse you, and you are better off ignoring anything that might cause you to doubt.  Our minds are designed to protect and even reinforce illogical ideas (phobias being a good example) and it's not easy to let go of things that do not make sense when considered in a critical light.

What you do about it depends on how tight you think he is clinging to his delusion, and how important your friendship is.  One thing you can do is wait until he brings up the topic, and present your views as just that-- not why his view is wrong, but why you believe what you do.  Putting the focus on you might make him less defensive and more willing to consider ideas that he would otherwise shut out.

I think the key is to get the person to wonder, on some level, why he treats religion so differently.  Every other thing in his life is considered with a mixture of logic and reason and emotion.  When it comes to religion, most people exclude the first two and only use emotion.  Once you open the door to logic and reason, even just a crack, it begins to wear away at the religious beliefs.  If it works, he'll be thanking you for a very long time.

Offline Backspace

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 12:14:36 PM »
i don't know what to do with someone that is so blind and refuses to accept anything else...

Pity him, and accept him despite his wilful ignorance, or walk away from him.  Getting mad/frustrated with him will only cause you grief, while he'll remain blissfully stupid.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 12:18:44 PM by Backspace »
There is no opinion so absurd that a preacher could not express it.
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Offline natlegend

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 12:31:40 AM »
I was having a conversation with my aunt, who in the last 18 months at the tender age of 60, has 'rediscovered' Christianity. As I gently rebutted every claim she made about her miraculous savior she finally started getting frustrated and blurted out "Well we should all be thankful that god made the ultimate sacrifice when he sent his only son to die on the cross! He did that to save the whole world from sin!" To which I replied "Yes but wouldn't you do exactly the same thing, if it meant saving everyone on the planet? I know I wouldn't enjoy being crucified, but I wouldn't hesitate going through the same ordeal if I knew everyone in the whole wide world would be saved from dammnation. Heck, I reckon my 12 year old little sister would do the same. In fact,when it comes to saving everyone on the planet, I reckon you'd be hard put to find someone who would say no."

This got an interesting reaction from my aunt. She was quiet for a moment, and then quietly said "Y'know, I'd never thought of it that way."

And I left it at that.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Spinner198

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2014, 09:04:41 PM »
Misconceptions exist on both sides. I didn't really read the OP but, while being a Christian myself, I understand that many Christians do indeed reject certain aspects of science because they believe they contradict the Bible.

However, the reason for this isn't really their own ignorance as much as it is the vagueness of the science revolving around evolution. Many people (on both sides) believe in many different kinds of science that conflict with ID that actually don't.

The only aspect of evolution that conflicts with the Bible is the macro-evolution aspect of it; the 'speciation' that apparently happens. Virtually all other aspects of it are scientifically sound and don't contradict creationism. But it is the misinterpretations and misrepresentation of information that causes confusion on both sides.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2014, 01:47:16 PM »
Misconceptions exist on both sides. I didn't really read the OP but, while being a Christian myself, I understand that many Christians do indeed reject certain aspects of science because they believe they contradict the Bible.

However, the reason for this isn't really their own ignorance as much as it is the vagueness of the science revolving around evolution. Many people (on both sides) believe in many different kinds of science that conflict with ID that actually don't.

The only aspect of evolution that conflicts with the Bible is the macro-evolution aspect of it; the 'speciation' that apparently happens. Virtually all other aspects of it are scientifically sound and don't contradict creationism. But it is the misinterpretations and misrepresentation of information that causes confusion on both sides.

The only misconceptions are on the part of the people who deny the science of evolution in favor of some other idea with no concrete evidence supporting it at all. The same science that supports evolutionary theory supports all the other scientific theories that are somehow okay with creationist folks.

There is nothing "vague" about the science that supports evolution. Evolution is one of the most well-supported ideas that science has ever come up with. The entire field of genetics, the everyday use of DNA in forensic investigations and the need for new flu vaccines each season are all concrete evidence in support of evolution. People who say they "don't believe that evolution is true" need to stop saying blue eyes or musical talent runs in their family, because that is a statement of lay support of the theory of evolution. They also need to show why every single field of science since Darwin has only added to the theory.

If the theory of evolution is wrong, that means that millions of people have been producing nothing but made-up fake data in universities, private labs, hospitals and research facilities all over the world for the past 150 years. And hundreds of journal articles and scientific organizations have been actively covering up all the faked data.

We are not just talking biology here. We have to indict public health, chemistry, agriculture, physical anthropology, biogeography, geology and paleontology. All textbooks had to have been written by liars and are full of faked data.  China, Israel, Russia, Germany, South Africa, Ethiopia, England, Brazil and the US are all in on this massive scam.

And DNA matches at crime scenes are just coincidentally linked to the right person. And public health scientists are just wasting time and money creating new flu vaccines when they could just keep on using the ones from years past. And the thousands of fossil remains of different types of plants, reptiles, fish, birds and yes, different hominids, were placed in the ground in the right order by Satan to test our faith.

Or maybe evolution is true.

Which is more likely?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jetson

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2014, 01:59:50 PM »
[snip]... look at how perfect we are! our blood, heart, limb, etc... everything fits together so perfectly...[snip]

It takes almost no effort at all to look around at the human condition, and see the flaws in so many of us.  I always find it amusing, and somewhat embarrassing when people claim that we are some "perfect" creation of some god character.  What is so perfect about all of the flaws such as birth defects, amputees, hair loss, massive loss of eyesight as we grow, and the never ending nightmare of allergies, to name a small few of the many flaws? 

And none of that includes the real weirdness of our current physiology!  Look at the laryngeal nerve, look at the horrible location of the throat and windpipe, look at the terrible design of the central support, the spine, and how our central organ system has almost no benefit from that spinal infrastructure.  If there is a blueprint behind the design of the human body, one could argue that it is one of the worst engineering feats in history!

These are not my original ideas and thoughts by the way, so you can look into any or all of them, and if you come away with the conclusion that humans are perfectly designed, you are being willfully ignorant, or you are incapable of understanding simple design concepts.

Offline lop0

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2014, 03:06:26 AM »
irreligion is going as religion and nonsense is going as science.

Online Nam

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Re: ignorance & blind faith
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2014, 01:26:39 PM »
irreligion is going as religion and nonsense is going as science.

Your comments are "science"? Whoa...trippy.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.