First, if either of you are of the opinion that the jewish people have no right to Israel, and that they should either be driven into the sea by force, or subsumed into a Palestinian state, then I will only say that I disagree, and tell you that I'm not interested in yet another debate about the right of Israel to exist. I find it exhausting.
Well, I find it to be a loaded question. Does a state that has been exinct for 2000 years have a right to be a state again? What does it even mean to say a state has a right? How do you define "Israel"? Is there an intrinsic connection between a person and an ancient ancestral home to the point where they have the right to kick out the people who live there?
I think if jews wanted to live in Palenstine, in harmony and peace with the people who already lived there, buying land instead of stealing it, that would probably be okay. I think they would probably not be seen as international villains. I think the problem is when they define it as a jewish
state and then engage in a long, slow war of ethnic cleansing. Israel is an apartheid state and they have no interest in peace with palestinians. They are racists.
Suppose my friend Vinny Sacramano and a bunch of his friends and relatives - all zeus worshippers and descendents of the Roman Empire - wanted to go back to Rome to reestablish the Empire of old? No big deal. Unless they started kicking out the xian Italians who live there now, trying to justify it by saying "it's not really their land" and trying to ensure the people who have lived there since the fall of the Roman Empire had no political power. Exact same problem in israel.
As for drone strikes on settlements, I trust that was hyperbole. One cannot seriously advocate the wholesale killing of people. One however, can advocate the removal, by measured force if necessary, of the settlers, and the bulldozing of the settlements themselves (just for a bit of payback).
They are terrorists engaged in a war against civilians. Isn't that what drones are for? http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/settlers-receive-an-escort-from-the-israeli-military-to-intimidate-palestinians-harvesting-their-olive-trees.html
Look at some of the photos on this one: http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/ht/d/sp/i/33045/pid/33045/cat_id/722/icids/722/
did you see the guy wearing the tshirt that says:
"Are you jewish? Yes= life. No= death."
My comments below exclude Orthodox jews, and the right wing from which they have emerged. ...
In your replies, you have countered my argument with the term 'chosen people'. That term is not generally used by jews. It is a term most often used derisively by gentiles to refer to jews. It is a veiled insult with enough baggage to be useful for just about any thing.
On what grounds do you say this? If orthodox jews say this, how is it that this is a slur to less stringent jews?
The closest I have found to your interpretation is this:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-alan-lurie/jews-gods-chosen-people_b_1079821.html
And it still smacks of superiority.
I've read a bunch of articles on what the chosen people means. They all try to say it does not mean the jews are special, but they never actually make that argument. The arguments they use make the exact opposite point. They say things like "the concept of a chosen people within Judaism has nothing to do with racial superiority, but rather is a description of the special relationship between God and Jews."
Right. That special relationship no other people on the planet has
. That doesn't make them better or superior. It just makes them...special. In a superior way.
They are a small state surrounded by people who see them as enemies,
Oh, baloney. That is a myth. They've been at peace with Egypt for 40 years, with Jordan for 20 years. Iraq does not border Israel, but is in shambles anyway. Saudi Arabia has been non-antagonistic and has tried to pressure Israel to fix their Palestinian policy. Syria and Lebanon are impotent. Israel worrying about them is like the US worrying about Cuba. And while Ahmedinijad of Iran may have said some really scary things, what have they actually done? Nothing. What can they do? Nothing. Iraq and Turkey are between them. Ahmedinijad has no power to act on his stupid words.
The whole notion that they are this little underdog with their back against the wall is preposterous.
And the only reason they are seen as an enemy in the region is because of their racist and violent policies. If you move into a neighborhood by breaking into a house, killing a couple fo the kids and making the rest of the family who lived there move to a tent in the back yard, yes, the neighbors are unlikely to be friendly.
You make a good point and I agree with you. Fear does play into the dynamic of israeli politics. But if you think they don't think of themselves as superior to the the palestinians, akin to the way the nazis thought of jews, then I think you are being naive.