Author Topic: Skeleton Saint  (Read 785 times)

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Offline Nick

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Skeleton Saint
« on: March 04, 2013, 03:48:08 PM »
I'm embarrassed to even admit I was Catholic after seeing this.  Apparently there is a growing trend along the boarder of the Southwest for a saint of the church...La Santa Muerte...the skeleton saint...she wears a black nun's robe and holds a scythe...kind of a cross between the Grim Reaper and Mother Theresa...I guess she is prayed to to help people with otherworldly needs...like the illicit drug trade...she will protect the drug runners from law enforcement.  She has become a popular tat for drug runners also.  You want to keep your saint protector close to you.  This from a church that has a problem with rubbers and birth control.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/r-andrew-chesnut/santa-muerte-and-black-magic-murder-on-the-border_b_2567388.html#slide=more277240

to add link to report and pictures GB Mod
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 07:37:05 PM by Graybeard »
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Spit

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 10:07:47 PM »
^She sounds like a badass.  :blank:

Online Bereft_of_Faith

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 02:44:43 AM »
^She sounds like a badass.  :blank:

Seconded.  I would consider making her my deity, but I always envisioned giving myself over to a goddess with a bit more flesh on dem bones.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 10:55:27 AM »
That's what you get when you try to convert a people with a deeply pagan culture.  They revert to their old ways.  If the RCC wasn't in such sad shape and didn't rely so much on latin america for its future, I am sure the pope would have cracked down on this.  It must bug the heck out of the Vatican, but it is Real Politik they don't stomp this out.  Instead, they crack down on nuns who want to do more work for the needy.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 02:30:24 PM »
Santa Muerte is not a Catholic Saint, but a Saint of a Catholic people. The actual Catholic Church does not approve of it and when shrines appear on any lands they directly control will eradicate them. Sometimes it is given a wink and a nudge in the most out of the way parishes, but the heirarchy does NOT even implicitly approve of Santa Muerte.

You have to remember Early Christianity plus Paganism equals Catholicism. Catholicism plus African animism equals Voudoo. Catholicism plus Vodoo equals Santeria(which Santa Muerte is part of at the extreme end...supplanting in part the position of Baron Samedi in Voodoo) and while hispanic Catholicism takes on bit of Santeria flavor...it is NOT Catholicsm any more than any other protestant sect.



An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Noman Peopled

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2013, 10:19:31 AM »
I recall reading somewhere that the Spaniards had little trouble converting the mayans. They already had a pantheon that could only be managed on spreadsheets ... so Jesus, God of Maize it was.
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
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Offline Badger347

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 11:47:51 PM »
Santa Muerte is not a Catholic Saint, but a Saint of a Catholic people. The actual Catholic Church does not approve of it and when shrines appear on any lands they directly control will eradicate them. Sometimes it is given a wink and a nudge in the most out of the way parishes, but the heirarchy does NOT even implicitly approve of Santa Muerte.

You have to remember Early Christianity plus Paganism equals Catholicism. Catholicism plus African animism equals Voudoo. Catholicism plus Vodoo equals Santeria(which Santa Muerte is part of at the extreme end...supplanting in part the position of Baron Samedi in Voodoo) and while hispanic Catholicism takes on bit of Santeria flavor...it is NOT Catholicsm any more than any other protestant sect.

Peace be with you.  Hatter is correct, Santa Muerte is not a canonized saint of the Catholic church.  People, even those that call themselves Catholics, make errors. Look at what the Church actually teaches.  As for the comment regarding "Early Christianity plus Paganism equals Catholicism...." and related comments...Early Christianity IS Catholicism (see church fathers writings like St. Ignatius 110 AD, etc. using this term in reference to the Church).  Catholicism means "universal" church.  Catholics honor some, like the Virgin Mary and Saints but they DO NOT worship them.  Worship is for the one true God alone.  Refer the Catechism of the Catholic Church for what Catholics are taught about the faith.    May God bless each of you.





Offline Badger347

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2013, 11:52:40 PM »
That's what you get when you try to convert a people with a deeply pagan culture.  They revert to their old ways.  If the RCC wasn't in such sad shape and didn't rely so much on latin america for its future, I am sure the pope would have cracked down on this.  It must bug the heck out of the Vatican, but it is Real Politik they don't stomp this out.  Instead, they crack down on nuns who want to do more work for the needy.

Peace be with you. 

Why do you think the RCC is in sad shape exactly?  What makes you think the RCC is relying on Latin America for its future?  What makes you think the Pope rides over the flock like a dictator ready to squash each and every troublesome issue?  How exactly is the RCC cracking down on nuns?  I honestly want to know the facts because I suspect you are lead astray by the secular and mostly ignorant and even arrogant mass media.  Details are important to me...if I'm wrong, I want to know.  Thank you for conversing.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2013, 06:35:21 PM »
Early Christianity IS Catholicism

Not really. Early Christianity had more to do with Judiasm and bore little connection with the "bells, statues, and incense" nature of what Catholicism quickly became by the mid second century.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2013, 07:22:59 PM »
Why do you think the RCC is in sad shape exactly?

A number of reasons.  First, they have not recovered from the pedophile scandals.  Second, the last two popes were instrumental in that scandal, hardly what I would call paragons of morality.  On top of the the Vatican Bank has been laundering money for organized crime and who know who else.  Third, the clergy is so out of touch with their "flock" they are on the verge of becoming a highly exclusive club for sour, elderly, virgin men.

http://www.thenation.com/article/160242/shame-john-paul-ii-how-sex-abuse-scandal-stained-his-papacy#
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/07/08/vatileaks-scandal-exposes-secrets-of-pope-s-empire.html


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What makes you think the RCC is relying on Latin America for its future? 

And africa.  That is where they are going to get most of the new catholics. They are having a tough time rustling them up in Europe and North america.  Asia, including the middle east, is mostly hostile to their evangelizing attempts.  So africa and south america it is.

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What makes you think the Pope rides over the flock like a dictator ready to squash each and every troublesome issue?

Isn't that sort of the definition of "pope"?  Was john paul the deuce not the guy who sent der Panzer Kardinal (ratzinger) to shut up the pedo scandal?
And if it is not the pope personally doing the cracking, then it certainly does not happen without his permission.

Quote
How exactly is the RCC cracking down on nuns?

They objected to them getting uppity and wanting to focus on helping the poor rather than screaming about abortion and other far right wing issues.  As a result, they threatened to take over their leadership and possibly their charter as an in independent order. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/vatican-crackdown-on-nuns
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/05/vatican-intensifying-crackdown-on-american-nuns/
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/italy/130226/pope-benedict-conclave-vatican-crackdown-nuns

As I've said before, if I were still a catholic, I'd have had to leave the church over these things.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2013, 04:08:28 PM »
The Philippines is an Asian country that is predominantly Catholic, but it is the exception that proves the rule. And it's hard to separate the Catholic presence from the Spanish colonization that brought it about.

Yes, the future of the Catholic church is in third world countries, former Spanish, French and Portuguese colonies. Sadly, those are also the places most in need of progressive reproductive health care and female emancipation--two things the Catholic Church does NOT promote.  :(
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Skeleton Saint
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2013, 04:52:34 PM »
Early Christianity IS Catholicism

Not really. Early Christianity had more to do with Judiasm and bore little connection with the "bells, statues, and incense" nature of what Catholicism quickly became by the mid second century.

To be fair the catholic Church took a long time to take shape - at least the sort of church it is today. Irenaeus, mentioned above, was from c 170CE and he was defending the faith against Gnostics especially. This was the time when the doctrine was being formed and idea after idea was being chucked out as heresy moving towards some serious doctrine at Nicea 325CE and Chalcedon 450CE.

The 'bells and whistles' or the catholic tradition hadn't even started at the time of Ireneus. The bishops in Rome were very keen to take over the church, though, and it was through Constantine, after Nicea, that bishop of Rome got set up as a prince and not, as in the past, a servant of the people. Indeed, one can't really talk about the Roman Catholic Church until after the Photian schism of c1000CE when the Eastern Church and the Roman church split up. Either of the two has a claim to the origins of Christianity though the Vatican like to bang on about it more!
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