Author Topic: A call to arms!  (Read 3327 times)

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Online One Above All

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2013, 03:41:44 PM »
Not through government, which is the ship being referenced.

In a democracy, the people are the government.

And which political views will my religion change?

There's virtually everything religions dictate, from behaviors to laws. People will try to outlaw behavior they don't like and enact laws that are supported by their religion. In other words, turn a country into a theocracy.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2013, 03:42:57 PM »
I agree with every single word that Bill Maher wrote. Religion, and the impulse to believe what we want, rather than what can be demonstrated to be true, is the single greatest threat to the survival of the human species.

People often say things like "But what harm is there in wanting to have a close personal relationship with God?" Ask the families of those who died on September 11, 2001. Would 19 young men have been so easily convinced to fly planes into occupied buildings if they did not have the promise of 72 virgins and the assurances of their religious and ideological leaders that the supreme ruler of the universe wants them to do so? I seriously doubt it.

Certainly a large number of religious people are not violent, aggressive, ignorant, or bigoted. The problem is that it is only to the extent that they do NOT follow the teachings of their holy books that they are decent people.

Deuteronomy 32:39-42 says: “See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand. I lift my hand to heaven and solemnly swear: As surely as I live forever, when I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand grasps it in judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and repay those who hate me. I will make my arrows drunk with blood, while my sword devours flesh: the blood of the slain and the captives, the heads of the enemy leaders.”

How can anything BUT death and destruction come from this type of wickedness? Why do Christians act surprised when other Christians behave exactly like their God? Why do they think that it must be because they are not really following their faith? Why is it any surprise that the "Holy Land" has been such a hotbed of violence and oppression? The faithful who live there are just following the example set forth by the dear leader. As despicable as it may be, Christians who hate homosexuals, and treat women like cattle, and beat their children to death, are JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS. It's not an accident that this stuff happens. How can anyone read the above passage and think "I'm supposed to love my neighbors as myself and I value all people equally"? Such passages would be at home in a death metal CD, and are barely distinguishable from the behavior of Hitler.

A quick search on BibleGateway for the word "kill" produces 445 results, for "destroy" it is 504 results, and "hate" 127 results. I will freely admit that I did not personally review every single one of these results as to their context and meaning, but who would ever have the guts to say that a vast majority of these results are NOT God recommending or doing these things, and his followers making it happen? If, in the Harry Potter series, Harry killed over 2.5 million people, he would NOT be considered the good guy. Note also that Harry willingly goes to meet Voldemort in the Forbidden Forest with every expectation that he will DIE, and no expectation of reward. He does it to protect those he loves and to give them hope for a better future. This is pretty much the opposite of what Jesus does. Jesus KNOWS it's just a game, that he will not really be dead, that he will rule with limitless power forever, and torment us FOREVER if we so much as refuse to kiss his ass. In fact, according to Paul, kissing ass is the only requirement to be saved, regardless of how good of a person you were. Like I've said before, this is not surprising considering that, according to the story, pre-psychadelic revelation, Paul was a giant douche (or turd sandwich, whichever you prefer) and a godless person. OF COURSE he would say that it didn't matter what you did.

People have a right to believe whatever they want, but if what they believe is not RIGHT, why would they want to believe it, and why should we respect them for it? I don't like the fact that I will never see those whom I love again once they are dead, but that is what the external reality is. Reality really doesn't give a shit about our feelings of beliefs, because they are irrelevant to what is true.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2013, 03:57:59 PM »
My religion is strictly politically neutral.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2013, 04:03:02 PM »
What these people are trying to do is outlaw sin.  They should take a lesson from the Jews about outlawing sin.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Online One Above All

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2013, 04:05:16 PM »
What these people are trying to do is outlaw sin.  They should take a lesson from the Jews about outlawing sin.

I've heard this comparison before, but I don't know its origin.
Saying that you're outlawing sin is like getting pissed at someone who's eating a cake because you're on a diet.
In other words, nobody cares what you think is wrong or right.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline bertatberts

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2013, 04:07:43 PM »
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing
Quote from: bert
And how do you make this distinction? What do you class as a bad religion? Remembering that a religions adherents do not consider it bad.
Are you asking me to tell the difference between good and bad?
Where did I say that, you clearly don't understand the question. Which religions do you consider bad? How do you decide which religions are bad? What is the criteria you use? How do you know your criteria is the best way to decide? etc etc..

Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing
"love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."
For example, which of the things are produced by Westboro?  Which do they not produce?
To there adherents all the above.
 
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2013, 04:11:58 PM »
What these people are trying to do is outlaw sin.  They should take a lesson from the Jews about outlawing sin.

I've heard this comparison before, but I don't know its origin.
Saying that you're outlawing sin is like getting pissed at someone who's eating a cake because you're on a diet.
In other words, nobody cares what you think is wrong or right.

Exactly.  And the rule of law can never make people do what is right.  It has only a limited effect on deterring people from doing wrong.  So why do these Christians put people back under the law?  Is that what Christ taught people to do?  I think not.  Law can be used to establish order, not enforce right or wrong.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2013, 04:20:52 PM »
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing
Quote from: bert
And how do you make this distinction? What do you class as a bad religion? Remembering that a religions adherents do not consider it bad.
Are you asking me to tell the difference between good and bad?
Where did I say that, you clearly don't understand the question. Which religions do you consider bad? How do you decide which religions are bad? What is the criteria you use? How do you know your criteria is the best way to decide? etc etc..

Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing
"love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."
For example, which of the things are produced by Westboro?  Which do they not produce?
To there adherents all the above.

Those that try to enforce something God does not enforce are evil.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline sun_king

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2013, 04:27:37 PM »
Those that try to enforce something God does not enforce are evil.

Most governments enforce the abolition of slavery and slavery is something god encouraged in the Bible. So are these governments evil?

Is enforcement of monogamy evil?

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2013, 04:32:38 PM »
Those that try to enforce something God does not enforce are evil.

Most governments enforce the abolition of slavery and slavery is something god encouraged in the Bible. So are these governments evil?

Is enforcement of monogamy evil?

I'm talking about the enforcement of morality through law.  I know of people that would like to have slaves so the law has not forced morality to change, nor can it.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline bertatberts

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2013, 05:16:18 PM »
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing
Quote from: bert
And how do you make this distinction? What do you class as a bad religion? Remembering that a religions adherents do not consider it bad.
Are you asking me to tell the difference between good and bad?
Where did I say that, you clearly don't understand the question. Which religions do you consider bad? How do you decide which religions are bad? What is the criteria you use? How do you know your criteria is the best way to decide? etc etc..

Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing
"love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."
For example, which of the things are produced by Westboro?  Which do they not produce?
To there adherents all the above.

Those that try to enforce something God does not enforce are evil.
Ok! But who are they? why are they bad? what makes you better? Explain? Name names?
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2013, 05:23:43 PM »
The subject of this thread is not about if my religion is true.  The subject is if my religion is harmful to Bill Mahar or anyone else so that my religion should die.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline bertatberts

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2013, 06:03:10 PM »
The subject of this thread is not about if my religion is true.  The subject is if my religion is harmful to Bill Mahar or anyone else so that my religion should die.
Agreed! however when told that we all agree to an extent with Bill  Mahar, you said your religion was somehow different, how do you determine that, so as we can understand. Who is bad and who is good. You brought it up not us we only want you to define you criteria. Tis all.
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2013, 06:11:11 PM »
Here are some things to help you identify bad religion.

Sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2013, 06:15:35 PM »
Here is some more.  Realigions that are, lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—  having a form of godliness but denying its power, are bad religions.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2013, 06:19:24 PM »
Here is some more.  Realigions that are, lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—  having a form of godliness but denying its power, are bad religions.
With the possible exception of Sikh, there is no religion that does NOT fit this description.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2013, 06:25:47 PM »
I'd kind of like an answer to the point I raised earlier about you viewing former believers as a danger to your spirituality and treating them accordingly.  What, precisely, is this supposed to mean?  There are other religions (Islam comes to mind) which have held that apostate believers are evil and should be executed, for example.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2013, 06:47:33 PM »
It means I should be cautious about association with them, or not associate with them at all.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline bertatberts

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2013, 07:05:21 PM »
Here are some things to help you identify bad religion.

Sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.
Severe case of dodging, I don't need to know how to determine who's bad. I want to know who you consider bad, name names. stop dodging. Why is yours different? What is your denomination?
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline Graybeard

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2013, 07:12:34 PM »
those who would steer the ship of state, not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken."

Chicken entrails are notoriously unreliable. A goat is what is needed.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline The Gawd

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2013, 07:36:14 PM »
Here are some things to help you identify bad religion.

Sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.
As far as I know JW's use the bible, no? I know its a different bible, but all of this is promoted by the god of abrahamic religions... ie JWs

Offline shnozzola

Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2013, 07:42:05 PM »
Hi Jst,
  I have a couple of observations - uh, questions I guess.
Quote
The Bible teaches that backsliden worshipers of Jehovah are a danger to my spirtuality. As such, they should be treated accordingly.
Please give some details on how "they" should  be treated.

Quote
Those that try to enforce something God does not enforce are evil.
You're fortunate to know what is evil while others do not.  Again, how should these evil people be treated?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 07:50:51 PM by shnozzola »
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2013, 07:49:37 PM »
Here are some things to help you identify bad religion.

Sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.
Severe case of dodging, I don't need to know how to determine who's bad. I want to know who you consider bad, name names. stop dodging. Why is yours different? What is your denomination?

I am not dodging a question.  I am avoiding an entire topic.  The topic I am avoiding is if my religion is the true religion.  The topic being discussed is should atheists try to kill all religion and why.  Also I'd like to add "how" should it be killed?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2013, 07:57:25 PM »
Hi Jst,
  I have a couple of observations - uh, questions I guess.
Quote
The Bible teaches that backsliden worshipers of Jehovah are a danger to my spirtuality. As such, they should be treated accordingly.
Please give some details on how "they" should  be treated.

Any association with them should revolve only around trying to give them scriptural counsel.  We should not be casual friends.  I would still love them as my neighbor.

Quote from: jstwebbrowsing
Those that try to enforce something God does not enforce are evil.
Quote from: shnozzola
You're fortunate to know what is evil while others do not.  Again, how should these evil people be treated?

You should love them as yourself.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 08:00:02 PM by Jstwebbrowsing »
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline shnozzola

Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2013, 08:02:58 PM »
Loving evil people as yourself is cool.  I just don't like when fundamentalist christians in Kenya burn people because they are suspected of practicing witchcraft.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1fe_1310865020

I really do not think evil exists.  Diseases, mental problems, horrible childhoods, bad decisions, yeah.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 08:06:18 PM by shnozzola »
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2013, 08:06:19 PM »
Loving evil people as yourself is cool.  I just don't like when fundamentalist christians in Kenya burn people because they are suspected of practicing witchcraft.

I don't like when fundamentalist christains in Kenya burn people either.  They are burning my neighbors that I love.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2013, 08:08:08 PM »
And no.  Evil does not "exist".  Evil is an effect.  It is not a cause.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Azdgari

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2013, 09:05:23 PM »
It means I should be cautious about association with them, or not associate with them at all.

For those who lose their families as a result, that's quite harmful.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: A call to arms!
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2013, 09:30:13 PM »
tough loveNOUN
1. being caring but strict: a caring but strict attitude adopted toward a friend or loved one with a problem, as distinct from an attitude of indulgence
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10