Author Topic: Is President Obama really a Christian?  (Read 1035 times)

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Offline kaziglu bey

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Is President Obama really a Christian?
« on: February 20, 2013, 01:07:58 PM »
I saw this video a few years back, and just found it again today. It shows then Senator Obama making a pretty smart speech about the role of faith in government, and the problems associated with it. He also points out a few of the more barbaric and immoral things in the Bible, and why it does not make good national policy. I am not sure if we could conclude that the President is an atheist, but he really seems to say a lot of things an atheist might say. It really comes of as being critical of Christianity, or at the least skeptical about it's utility in areas of government. I voted for him, though I don't agree with all of his policies[1], I think that he is generally a very intelligent, rational, and humane man who is tolerant and cool headed. But this clip really does make me happy to have him as President. At least if he is a Christian, he is definitely of the most desirable kind.

So is the President a Christian, or a closet atheist? Maybe after his second term he will come out. What do you think?

 1. When does anyone ever agree with all of the policies of any President?
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 02:15:58 PM »
If he is a christian, at least he has asked the right questions and come up with acceptable answers.

I won't answer the question for him. I would hate it if someone answered it for me. But I do appreciate the fact that he and I could clearly sit down and talk about the issues without having to resort to name calling. Other than the fact that I'd have to call him Mr. President.  ;D
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2013, 02:22:37 PM »
If he is a christian, at least he has asked the right questions and come up with acceptable answers.
Indeed, it's refreshing to see a politician with critical thinking skills and a sense of intellectual honesty. He is certainly of the most progressive, philosophical type of Christians.

Quote
I won't answer the question for him. I would hate it if someone answered it for me. But I do appreciate the fact that he and I could clearly sit down and talk about the issues without having to resort to name calling. Other than the fact that I'd have to call him Mr. President.  ;D
I agree, it would be pretty easy to have a sensible and meaningful conversation with this man. I wish he would change his position on a few things, but the fact that he actually uses his brain is impressive in DC.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline One Above All

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 02:31:31 PM »
He says he's a christian. That's good enough for me.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2013, 02:34:02 PM »
I believe he is an atheist.  Both parents were.  He has to play along with the Christian thing because he is a politician.
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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 02:42:00 PM »
I agree, it would be pretty easy to have a sensible and meaningful conversation with this man. I wish he would change his position on a few things, but the fact that he actually uses his brain is impressive in DC.

I certainly don't agree with him 100% either. The drone thing, for instance, is both a human tragedy and a national one. We are making more enemies per day with this new technology than we could ever muster with just old fashioned soldiers and airmen. And his administration's handling of banking crimes is certainly wanting. However, when compared to his predecessor, he looks like a frickin' saint.

I liked Ronald Reagan as a person. Before he was elected to anything, I enjoyed his personality and sense of humor. But I strongly disliked his policies as our president. With Obama, I generally like him in both categories.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 10:01:43 PM »
Obama is a scholar of constitutional law, and like the drafters of the constitution, knows religion and effective government don't mix.  A rare quality for any modern American -- especially a politician.
There is no opinion so absurd that a preacher could not express it.
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Offline hickdive

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2013, 04:05:49 AM »
It is unfortunate that such clarity of thought is invariably subsumed by the political necessity of mediocrity when the thinker moves into the Whitehouse.



Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline Seppuku

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2013, 07:08:40 AM »
I think it's definitely possible he really is a Christian, just not a typical Christian. There was a Christian in my class when I was at University was very critical of the church and corruption from within her religion, she also didn't deny there were dark things in the bible and she was very straight forward and honest and her general view was that questioning your faith and questioning religion is a very good thing, because those who don't can't really justify what they believe. There have been some similar Christians I've met as well and invited me, an atheist, to one of their events to get involved in debate because they liked the fact I made such forward challenges and considered their God of the bible immoral. What was refreshing was that nobody had the intention of convincing me to become one of them or scold me for thinking differently. Though some answers to questions annoyed me a little bit by some, but there were a variety of stances and not everybody had the same ideas.

One of the Christians from that event seemed to take a somewhat similar view to Obama, but remained faithful. There are Christians who believe a secular government is a good thing. It's nice when you do meet Christians who intelligently and honestly question their own beliefs rather than attempt to make excuses for them. Generally you feel their faith is more justified, I may think it's completely unnecessary, but I feel a whole lot more comfortable about them being believers.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 07:11:27 AM by Seppuku »
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2013, 08:10:42 PM »
I think he does what most christians do. Keep the good shit, discard the bad shit. Except I think he knows he does it and why. I know the church he attended on the South Side is much more than just a church. Those people do REALLY good work in one of the most needy communities in the country. I commend those people. Real talk.

Offline Jontom10

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 10:16:03 AM »
A very good speech. Maybe he has been reading here or has some help writing his speeches from Kcrady :)

I don't know what his religion is or what particular brand of his religion but he was pretty honest and straightforward and I think he was trying to emphasise what post civil war America was founded on; a secular state where political decision is not affected by religious ideals but by debate on the common good.

Furthermore I think that if you state you are an atheist in the USA you can pretty much kiss goodbye any chance of winning any form of election to any public role. I think the same goes for here in the UK and probably pretty much any country that has a large voting populace that firmly believes in the sky fairy.

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Offline Schizoid

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 05:08:12 PM »
He says he's a christian. That's good enough for me.

Sounds simple to me, I'll go with that.  If he says he is, then he is.

I work with a guy, actually my supervisor, who is a devout Christian.  He knows I am an atheist and he says he doesn't respect me any less for it.  He knows I used to be a Christian and the vibe I get from him is that he believes deep down inside I still am a Christian in spite of what I say.  That's why I'll believe people are what they say they are until they claim differently.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 08:14:45 PM »
Is President Obama really a Christian?
He's a politician and a lawyer - who's asking?

[joke]A politician is in the South and is asked, "What's your stance on abortion?"
Unsure of his audience, there is a silence for a while and then he replies,

"If, by abortion, you mean the freedom granted to all women as equal citizens of a great and free country, to do as they (who are the best judges) see fit with their own body, then I am for it! But, if, by abortion, you mean the wanton destruction of innocent and defenseless human life, whether or not created in sin, then I oppose it!"[/joke]
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2013, 01:20:28 PM »
The real question is ANY Christian really a Christian? They like to pretend so they can collect in death,salvation,but none really live as if God was watching or has any interest in their lives.
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2013, 01:56:59 PM »
The real question is ANY Christian really a Christian?

Many, if not most, of the various branches of Christianity insist that many, if not most, of the other branches of Christianity aren't "really" Christians.  For my own part, as an atheist, I don't believe I have the right to say that anyone calling himself Christian isn't "really" Christian, unless it's extremely clear that he's not (e.g., if a self-described Christian were to say that he believes that god does not exist -- don't scoff, I've heard of it happening -- then I would be comfortable saying that he isn't really a Christian).  Barring that, I feel obligated, in more ways than one, to take someone at his word if he self-describes as a Christian.  If nothing else, I certainly know how highly offended I become when someone tries to claim that I'm not really an atheist, and I would imagine that most Christians would react similarly if told they weren't really Christians.

Some Christians have objected to this approach when I explain it to them, trying to tell me why, for example, Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians.  My response is always to say, "Hey, you need to tell them that.  I don't have a dog in that race, which is kind of the point."
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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2013, 03:32:53 PM »
The real question is ANY Christian really a Christian? They like to pretend so they can collect in death,salvation,but none really live as if God was watching or has any interest in their lives.

So true. They sure don't act like an all-powerful being is watching them at all times.

Ask any Christian if they would drive faster than the speed limit, engage in fornication, use illegal drugs, lie on tax forms, hit their spouse, write a bad check, view pornography or pilfer office supplies in front of a police officer[1] and almost every single one would say no. But pretty much every Christian has committed one of those "sins", or something even more egregious, in full view of god.  &)
 1.  or live youtube camera
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2013, 04:28:20 PM »
The real question is ANY Christian really a Christian? They like to pretend so they can collect in death,salvation,but none really live as if God was watching or has any interest in their lives.

"None" is a very absolute term.  I do not believe anyone can determine that.  If you are saying that no Christian is perfect then yes I agree.  But if you are saying that no Christians put forth their best effort then I do not agree.
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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2013, 05:39:44 PM »
The real question is ANY Christian really a Christian? They like to pretend so they can collect in death,salvation,but none really live as if God was watching or has any interest in their lives.

"None" is a very absolute term.  I do not believe anyone can determine that.  If you are saying that no Christian is perfect then yes I agree.  But if you are saying that no Christians put forth their best effort then I do not agree.

If all you have to do is put forth your best effort at living a decent life, than almost every human being who has ever lived would qualify for heaven. Very few Adolf Hitlers and Jeffrey Dahmers turn up in most societies, thank Thor. And it does not matter where in the world you are, most people of every faith and no faith are trying to be nice and kind. That means religious faith does not really make people kind or decent, which is what we atheists are always trying to get across.

(The places on earth closest to heaven, where people live the best lives, experience less poverty, have less violent crime, etc, tend to be the places like Japan and Denmark with the smallest influence of organized religion, but that's a different post.)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline essgeeskee

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2013, 05:57:53 AM »
So is the President a Christian, or a closet atheist? Maybe after his second term he will come out. What do you think?

Hate to answer a question with a question, but is ANYONE who claims to be Christian really a Christian?
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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2013, 09:20:14 AM »
Hate to answer a question with a question, but is ANYONE who claims to be Christian really a Christian?

A fair question really. Let's look at what the leading expert on who is a follower of Jesus (you know, Jesus himself)  says about who is really a follower of Jesus.

Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Well, there certainly are snake handling churches, which are notable for the fact that many of their participants are scarred for life or have died as a result of being bitten by poisonous snakes. I have yet to see anyone actually cast out a "devil". Though there are, and have been cases of people speaking a language they did not previously know, or speaking in an apparently unknown (as in, made up)  language, there is no actual evidence to demonstrate that such phenomena are the result of divine interaction. Maybe they are a closet Tolkien fan and are just babbling on in Quenya, which most people are not familiar with. At any rate, there is no evidence or reason to say that "God did it", especially since the phenomena does not seem to be limited to Christians. Furthermore, I have yet to meet anyone who could drink Drano, gasoline, or mercury without suffering rather severe consequences, including but not limited to, death. Finally, there is no evidence of Christians going around healing people by laying their hands on them. If they really possessed this ability, they would not need health insurance or go to the doctor. Children of so called faith healers often die of easily treatable conditions, in spite of their faith and laying on of hands. So, according to Jesus via Mark, there are no true Christians.

But why stop there? There are other means by which Jesus tells us that we can identify his genuine followers.   
Luke 10:19 "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
Seeing as there are not any invincible Christian superheroes with a big J emblazoned on a pair of tights, and that those identifying as Christians seem no less likely to be injured than non Christians, then again, according to Jesus, this time via Luke, there are no true Christians present, nor have there ever been.

But let's get yet another example, shall we?
John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Two separate claims are made here. The first is that the true, real, honest to God followers of Jesus will, according to Jesus, be able to do all of the miracles that Jesus could do. Jesus is alleged to have walked on water, turned water into wine, fed thousands of people with a few McFish value meals, made blind people see, crippled people walk, and raised people from the dead. There are no documented or confirmed cases of any Christians doing these things.

The second claim is that Jesus' followers will be able to do even greater things than these. Since Jesus brought dead people back to life, Christians should be able to do things even more impressive than that, like, I don't know, maybe restore a missing limb to an amputee? Nope, doesn't happen. Or maybe they would be able not die in the first place? That would certainly be more impressive than bringing a formerly dead person back to life. And it would have to be something that would DEFINITELY kill them, like being put through a wood chipper. Yet for whatever reason, in spite of their faith and in spite of Jesus promises, we don't see Christians lining up to be ground into hamburger meat. So, yet again, according to Jesus there are no true Christians.

Let's go to the fourth gospel writer and see what we find there.
Matthew 17:20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

So here we have Jesus, who again, is presumably an authority on who his real followers are, saying that those who really believe in him will be able to move mountains, and that nothing will be impossible to them. They should be able to fly like Superman, be bullet proof like Superman, should be able to stand at ground zero of a nuclear explosion and remain entirely unharmed, ought to be able to throw a baseball from here to the moon, should be able to time travel, should be able to lie on train tracks and get squashed and ripped to pieces, and then get up again, healthy and whole and unharmed. Since none of these things are ever done by those claiming to be Christians, and they don't even seem to claim that they can do such impossible things, one can safely conclude that, per Jesus himself, there are not any real Christians.

So in answer to your question, according to Jesus himself, none of those claiming to be Christians really are Christians. Note however that they very often claim to have a personal relationship from God and receive instructions or advice or messages from him. In other words, they are in fact claiming to be prophets, but are obviously false prophets, who, according to the Bible, are to be killed and often bring their destruction upon themselves.

Seriously, do people even take the time to read and think about this stuff? Sounds like a horrible system to me, and one which contains nothing at all resembling morality or ethical (or even desirable) behavior.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Petey

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2013, 01:36:23 PM »
Of course he's not a Christian.  He's a socialist, freedom-hating, America-destroying, foreign-born, evil, lying MUSLIM!!!

At least, that's what the intellectual giants over at Faux News would have us believe.
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Offline J0SH

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2013, 01:57:40 PM »
After seeing this I now, in a way, respect Obama. I don't think he is Christian the way he was mocking the insane verses of the Bible. Shellfish... stoning children. According to many fanatical Xtians he is the anti-christ. What a crazy bunch those Xtians are. Well, most of them anyway.
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Offline Tero

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Re: Is President Obama really a Christian?
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2013, 10:34:01 AM »
You have to be a bit of a hypocrite to be a politician and definitely to be president. So we may not know until he has biographers.

For many "christians" the process, or state is more a hope than belief. Their world is based on hope.

"Hope and change."