Author Topic: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH  (Read 7126 times)

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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #145 on: March 01, 2013, 11:44:47 AM »
Quote from: Anfauglir
Fascinating.  I was under the impression that Yahweh created everything, at least in the beginning.  So I'd supposed he created Adam, Eve, the serpent, and Eden, for definite.

Yes, and then he rested from creating.  Nothing is said about him creating every thought and desire.  What you are saying is that they were programed like computers from start to finish.  Only pure speculation can cause one to draw that conclusion.  Please tell me when Jehovah created desire and what evidence do you have?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline carstensenscott

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #146 on: March 01, 2013, 11:52:41 AM »
Funny it seems a little out of place now.

Update:

"It's official - the people who looked at the house today want it and are qualified. We have until the end of April to find a new home. We're thinking about checking out Baton Rouge. Tom has decided he's more of a city boy than he thought. He likes restaurants, movie theaters and having someplace to go do something. I love Vidalia but it's just too small. Baton Rouge might offer me an opportunity to work and help out with the bills a little. Tom will be a little farther away from his base station but the last time he was there was.............late Dec? He's usually TDY somewhere else.
I feel certain that God has a place all picked out for us. Pray that we will hear His voice and His voice only.
Thanks, friends.
Miss you all."

So my dad is latching all of these "comforts" to the new home requirements. Sounds like gods plan.
She is using work as motive. Good.

Then back to gods plan. "His voice and His voice only".


Just crazy to me.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #147 on: March 01, 2013, 03:46:28 PM »
What seems out of place?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline carstensenscott

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #148 on: March 01, 2013, 03:50:15 PM »
The follow up from original post.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #149 on: March 01, 2013, 03:56:17 PM »
I still don't understand.  What exactly were they praying for?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline carstensenscott

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #150 on: March 01, 2013, 04:03:26 PM »
Why do your detective skills fail in simple text. You so cleverly decipher the text of ancient.

They are praying for a new home.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #151 on: March 01, 2013, 04:05:28 PM »
So what's the problem then?  Are you worried they won't be able to find one?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline carstensenscott

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #152 on: March 01, 2013, 04:09:13 PM »
You can't be serious.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #153 on: March 01, 2013, 04:38:47 PM »
Quote from: carsten
Well, friends. We are in need of prayer. The owner of our rental needs to put it back on the market. They will honor our lease until April but we need to find a new place to live...

It doesn't sound like they were praying to not have to move.  What I really see is a complaint about where they do live and a positive outlook on what they might get.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline screwtape

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #154 on: March 01, 2013, 11:12:13 PM »
What seems out of place?

An adult talking about an imaginary guy with super-duper powers who apparently does real estate and is scouting out their next apartment.  Then he is going to mystically arrange the reality of southern Louisiana to ensure they get there. 
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #155 on: March 02, 2013, 10:50:26 AM »
Quote from: Anfauglir
Fascinating.  I was under the impression that Yahweh created everything, at least in the beginning.  So I'd supposed he created Adam, Eve, the serpent, and Eden, for definite.

Yes, and then he rested from creating.  Nothing is said about him creating every thought and desire.  What you are saying is that they were programed like computers from start to finish.  Only pure speculation can cause one to draw that conclusion.  Please tell me when Jehovah created desire and what evidence do you have?

So Yahweh did NOT create their desires?  So please tell me where they came from?

But that's not the point.  Yahweh set up every starting parameter.  Every variable in he environment, every twig, every leaf, every stone, was as HE set it.  The thoughts in Adam's head when he first awoke were the ones Yahweh put there, his level of hunger, his wishes, his dreams, all were set one day 1 preceisely by Yahweh......unless you suggest they are not?

So tell me, Jst.  In an environment where every pebble was placed specifically by Yahweh, where every condition was set by him, where man's first thought and nature was laid down precisely by him.....how could their desires go in any direction BUT ones that followed from the way he set things up?

Or turn it the other way, if you prefer.  Take the first "wrong" thing that happened, and trace it back.  The first "wrong" came from a thing, a being, and event, that was cause by the event before that, and the event before that.....and we can trace it all back to the way Yahweh set things up.  Effect follows cause, does it not?  So by all means, tell me where the "wrong" desire sprang from, in a world createdentirely, carefully, and specifically, by Yahweh?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #156 on: March 02, 2013, 11:49:34 AM »
Anfauglir

 He failed right off the bat setting up the perfect place,as Eve was just an afterthought to this creator,after all other companions for Adam failed.

 He did not even have the foresight to create the perfect mate for something made in his image.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #157 on: March 02, 2013, 04:19:32 PM »
What seems out of place?

An adult talking about an imaginary guy with super-duper powers who apparently does real estate and is scouting out their next apartment.  Then he is going to mystically arrange the reality of southern Louisiana to ensure they get there.

How do you know he's imaginary?

Quote from: Anfauglir
So Yahweh did NOT create their desires?  So please tell me where they came from?

The same place Jehovah's desires come from.  It came from their thoughts.  Thoughts create desire.

Quote from: Anfauglir
Yahweh set up every starting parameter.  Every variable in he environment, every twig, every leaf, every stone, was as HE set it.  The thoughts in Adam's head when he first awoke were the ones Yahweh put there, his level of hunger, his wishes, his dreams, all were set one day 1 preceisely by Yahweh......unless you suggest they are not?

Here you go again with your Sraw Man argument.  What is your source for this information? 
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline screwtape

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #158 on: March 02, 2013, 06:19:40 PM »
An adult talking about an imaginary guy with super-duper powers who apparently does real estate and is scouting out their next apartment.  Then he is going to mystically arrange the reality of southern Louisiana to ensure they get there.

How do you know he's imaginary?

Really?  That seems like a reasonable premise to you?  Never mind that, then.  Instead, I'd like to talk to you about something even more wonderful.  I have some magic beans might consider selling to for a very fair price...
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #159 on: March 02, 2013, 07:17:52 PM »
And if you think a belief in God and belief in magic beans in the same then I have some swampland in Forida I will sell you.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #160 on: March 02, 2013, 10:25:54 PM »
And if you think a belief in God and belief in magic beans in the same then I have some swampland in Forida I will sell you.

Terrible analogy.  It is a fact that there are such things as swamps.  Many of us has been to some.  It is a fact that there is a place called Florida.  Some of us has been there, or live there, as the case may be.  Those that lives, or has been, in Florida can verify the existence of swamps in Florida.

The existence of your god cannot be verified.

Really, the one major difference between magic beans and your god is that no one ask that we have faith that magic beans grows into giant beanstalks, and that there is a giant living in a castle on the clouds above.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #161 on: March 02, 2013, 10:44:56 PM »
So do you want to buy some or not?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #162 on: March 02, 2013, 11:16:38 PM »
So do you want to buy some or not?

This addresses nothing I said.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #163 on: March 03, 2013, 02:21:40 AM »
Quote from: Anfauglir
So Yahweh did NOT create their desires?  So please tell me where they came from?

The same place Jehovah's desires come from.  It came from their thoughts.  Thoughts create desire.

Where did their thoughts come from?  (Where do ANY thoughts come from?)  Serious question.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #164 on: March 03, 2013, 11:01:48 AM »
So do you want to buy some or not?

This addresses nothing I said.

As long as you insist belief in God is the same as belief in magic beans then you cannot learn anything about religion.  If it were the same then I would believe in magic beans.

Quote from: Anfauglir
Where did their thoughts come from?  (Where do ANY thoughts come from?)  Serious question.

From the same place they come from if there is no God.  Why does inserting God into the equation change where thoughts come from?  Thoughts come from a free mind.  Genuine happiness can only come from a free mind that chooses to do good things.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #165 on: March 03, 2013, 11:37:12 AM »
As long as you insist belief in God is the same as belief in magic beans then you cannot learn anything about religion.  If it were the same then I would believe in magic beans.

Once again, you address nothing I've said.

Your "cannot learn anything about religion" statement is nothing more than a false dichotomy.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #166 on: March 03, 2013, 03:49:32 PM »
And if you think a belief in God and belief in magic beans in the same

Oh, it's the same alright.  If you were on the outside looking in, it would be obvious.  You won't face that fact though.  You are invested in believing in your beliefs. 


As long as you insist belief in God is the same as belief in magic beans then you cannot learn anything about religion.

That's untrue.  You are not a hindu, and probably think their religion is bizarre and foolish, but you could still learn about it.

If it were the same then I would believe in magic beans.

You do.  You believe in them whole-heartedly, with the faith of a child.  Or rather, you believe in a "guy with super-duper powers who apparently does real estate and is scouting out their next apartment.  Then he is going to mystically arrange the reality of southern Louisiana to ensure they get there." 

Same thing as magic beans, in the broader sense.  The only difference is the details.



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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #167 on: March 03, 2013, 06:02:48 PM »
Okay I will address your points.  "Magic beans are just like God."  Dogma noted.  Thanks.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #168 on: March 03, 2013, 08:15:23 PM »
So do you want to buy some or not?

This addresses nothing I said.

As long as you insist belief in God is the same as belief in magic beans then you cannot learn anything about religion.  If it were the same then I would believe in magic beans.

Quote from: Anfauglir
Where did their thoughts come from?  (Where do ANY thoughts come from?)  Serious question.

From the same place they come from if there is no God.  Why does inserting God into the equation change where thoughts come from?  Thoughts come from a free mind.  Genuine happiness can only come from a free mind that chooses to do good things.
Why do carnivores eat herbivores? why do plants create bright colours for insects to see,thoughts people have....evolution,plain and simple answer. The fact that you are of closed mind and do not want to expand your horizons beyond what you have been taught can't be helped.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #169 on: March 04, 2013, 04:14:21 AM »
Quote from: Anfauglir
Where did their thoughts come from?  (Where do ANY thoughts come from?)  Serious question.
From the same place they come from if there is no God.  .....  Thoughts come from a free mind. 

Are all thoughts and desires entirely random?  Do you sit here and suddenly think "I bet the blue poodles in Africa are building kayaks"? 

Take the very simple thought: "I fancy a curry".  Where does that thought come from?  Could it, for example, come from someone who had never heard of the thing we call curry? 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline carstensenscott

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #170 on: March 04, 2013, 05:24:45 AM »
Why does inserting God into the equation change where thoughts come from?

You don't just insert god into an equation. All of a sudden your thoughts are not genuine because they are fated by the omniscient creator of all things. Even the rocks cry out his name. He knew I am writing this.

Thats real boring.

Wait. People can write stories that are works of fiction but we can't make up our own story in real life.

Boring. Who the frack wants to live a script?

Offline Tonus

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #171 on: March 04, 2013, 05:53:47 AM »
I always believed that free will meant that we were able to have our own thoughts and make our own decisions.  That's why god offered humanity guidance ("you can do this, but not this") and why attempts to get us to do wrong are assigned a specific term (temptation).  We are tempted by desires ("man I want that diamond necklace" "ack!  I don't want to get in trouble") which are manifested as thought.  Additional thought (dwelling on the object of desire or the situation we wish to escape) may lead us to an action that we consider wrong.

It's picking nits, but that's my view.  We're tempted by desire.  That temptation crystallizes via thought, and is fed via thoughts.  It can also be countermanded by thought ("I don't have the money for that necklace, and stealing it is out of the question!" "Lying would make things worse, I'll just fess up").

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #172 on: March 04, 2013, 07:16:05 AM »
I'm very much NOT going to head down the "whether we have free will" route here - but my general point is that Yahweh set up Adam and Eve, gave them all their starting desires and feelings, set up every aspect of their environment, and then started things running.  In such a case, if - a few days into the plan - the two humans on the planet think the wrong thoughts, then there was something wrong with the set up.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH
« Reply #173 on: March 04, 2013, 08:30:02 AM »
Okay I will address your points.  "Magic beans are just like God."  Dogma noted.  Thanks.
How would you determine whether or not magic beans had magic properties?  When you figure that out, find something about God that can be tested in the same way, and do it.  Otherwise, you don't have a single leg to stand on when it comes to God.  It's just far more likely false, just like the beans. 

Believing that magic beans can grow into giant stalks that lead to a land of giants is equally ridiculous as believing in God until you can prove one or the other in any meaningful way.  They both could be true, but believing that either one of them is, without having the same sort of evidence that we require in every other area of our lives, is simply ridiculous.  It just is. 

Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT