Xtian parents/step....AHHHHHHHHHHH

[carstensenscott]

My step mother posted this. WTF. Sometimes I wish I could .... could.... LOBOTOMIZE.

Well, friends. We are in need of prayer. The owner of our rental needs to put it back on the market. They will honor our lease until April but we need to find a new place to live... hopefully one where we can set up our bed and use our own dryer instead of having them in storage. We like the Vidalia area but wouldn't be against moving to Natchez. We want what God wants for us but have no clue what that is. Please pray for His wisdom and direction for us.
We can't buy again until 2014 and need to save some money for a down so we are forced to rent....unless, of course, someone wants to buy us our dream house and we'll rent it til we can buy.......... Just a thought. Any of our friends out there looking for someplace to put some extra cash floating around? Anybody want to be a landlord?
God knew this before we moved in so I'm not stressed. Just appreciate your prayers.


SHIZA.

[Nick]

They may be in trouble.  March is coming up and God will be real busy with March Madness.  Hope they don't mind being homeless for a while.

[Jag]

Interesting. The post starts with a request for prayer and ends with an advance thank you for said prayers, with a superfluous god mention in the middle. But everything else was a request for practical assistance, up to and including suggesting that someone might consider buying them a house to rent. She even identifies locations for pete sake!

So, apparently your stepmother is a typical believer, in that she claims belief in an interventionist god who knows everything and sets her path for her, but ALSO knows that the only help she is going to get will come from human beings - and that she can't depend on god to deliver the message. She asks for prayers AND practical assistance to be provided by humans. Keeps her bases covered with god, and still gets the message to the only entities that are able to assist.

[screwtape]

^ I got that too.  She book ends a practical request with godtalk.  I think her last paragraph is telling:
"God knew this before we moved in so I'm not stressed."

That's what it is all about.  It is an intimidating situation and she's scared.  So by talking to her imaginary friend using soothing ideas - someone powerful is in charge, everything is fine, I'm not stressed - she feels better.  It is a security blanket.

I think there is power in prayer.  It is just not the magical power most people think.  It is mental power.  It helps you focus on ideas you value - lord, I pray for patience and strength - and remind you how you want to be.  In 7 Habits of Highly Successful People, Covey talks about creating things twice, once in your head and once in reality.  Pro athletes use the technique as do the Thunderbirds.  Picture thowing a perfect fastball.  Visualize through all the motions perfectly in your mind.  Picture flying your F-16.  Visualize all the maneuvers perfectly in your mind.  That parallels prayer.  Pray for patience, then be patient, because you have already visualized it and experienced it in your mind.

I made a sort of secular prayer I try to say every day (or more) to remind me of the kind of person I want to be.  I have no way to measure whether it works.  But I'm hopeful.

[Jag]

^^^GREAT point! During my deconversion, I spent a lot of time thinking about the use of psychology in religion. Your post is a very good summary of what I concluded.

[jaimehlers]

The problem isn't people who use prayer as a mental strengthening exercise (or at least not directly).  It's those who are threatened by any alternative to prayer to their specific god.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

My step mother posted this. WTF. Sometimes I wish I could .... could.... LOBOTOMIZE.

Well, friends. We are in need of prayer. The owner of our rental needs to put it back on the market. They will honor our lease until April but we need to find a new place to live... hopefully one where we can set up our bed and use our own dryer instead of having them in storage. We like the Vidalia area but wouldn't be against moving to Natchez. We want what God wants for us but have no clue what that is. Please pray for His wisdom and direction for us.
We can't buy again until 2014 and need to save some money for a down so we are forced to rent....unless, of course, someone wants to buy us our dream house and we'll rent it til we can buy.......... Just a thought. Any of our friends out there looking for someplace to put some extra cash floating around? Anybody want to be a landlord?
God knew this before we moved in so I'm not stressed. Just appreciate your prayers.


SHIZA.

What I don't understand is why you would want to "LABOTOMIZE" someone in need of help.

[carstensenscott]

Why would the lobotomy be my choice of treatment?

Selfish only. I get frustrated that my dad is so brainwashed and his wife exposes their struggles, while he is busting his ass, she prays to her best friend all day. It is just frustration with my loved ones being duped.

[Jontom10]

What a lovely prayer.

God fix up some world peace ? Maybe stop some child rapists from raping a child ?

Nope... can we have a house pwease...

I bet God gives them a house with six bedrooms and three acres of land because their prayer was soooo nice.

[Nick]

If only those straving kids in Africa would learn to pray "the right way of course".

[Jstwebbrowsing]

Why would the lobotomy be my choice of treatment?

Selfish only. I get frustrated that my dad is so brainwashed and his wife exposes their struggles, while he is busting his ass, she prays to her best friend all day. It is just frustration with my loved ones being duped.

I can see how her exposing things would frustrate you.  I'm not sure how being duped fits in to this.  It seems you are implying she doesn't provide much practical help.  Is that correct?

If only those straving kids in Africa would learn to pray "the right way of course".

Jehovah never promised to prevent his followers from suffering because of human greed.  He promised he would comfort them in their sufferings until something better is brought about.

[carstensenscott]

DUPED BY RELIGION YOU FOOL.  (to deceive, esp by trickery; make a dupe or tool of; cheat; fool)....which you obviously are. Sad for you. Like that you are here giving it a whirl though. Try again.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

DUPED BY RELIGION YOU FOOL.  (to deceive, esp by trickery; make a dupe or tool of; cheat; fool)....which you obviously are. Sad for you. Like that you are here giving it a whirl though. Try again.

Oh I see.  You'd prefer them to act more like you.  Sorry, but I don't see the appeal.  If prayer dupes them into not acting like you then maybe there is something to it afterall and they are better off in need.

[Nick]

Why would the lobotomy be my choice of treatment?

Selfish only. I get frustrated that my dad is so brainwashed and his wife exposes their struggles, while he is busting his ass, she prays to her best friend all day. It is just frustration with my loved ones being duped.

I can see how her exposing things would frustrate you.  I'm not sure how being duped fits in to this.  It seems you are implying she doesn't provide much practical help.  Is that correct?

If only those straving kids in Africa would learn to pray "the right way of course".

Jehovah never promised to prevent his followers from suffering because of human greed.  He promised he would comfort them in their sufferings until something better is brought about.

Don't you mean to say, "He never promised you a rose garden"?

And you are right.  Those damn greedy starving kids deserve that they get.

[Jag]

Oh I see.  You'd prefer them to act more like you. 

There are more than two choices. There's no reason to assume that anyone is suggesting that they can either behave as they are, or like the OP, with no other alternative. Well, I guess maybe you are.

Sorry, but I don't see the appeal. 

Well of course not! You only see two alternatives!

If prayer dupes them into not acting like you then maybe there is something to it afterall and they are better off in need.

See what happens when you see everything through such a small filter? Again, you only see two options here. Do you realize that you just took a stance in favor of their pending homelessness in order to score some kind of imaginary point against a stranger on the internet with whom you appear to be trying to pick a fight? And trying to claim to moral high ground while doing so? Seriously?

Try to consider a slight shift in a single circumstance in the situation as described in the OP, and reconsider what the outcome might be. Then do it again, with a different circumstance. Keep considering the consequences of small changes to every single aspect of the situation you can think of, and see what seems likely to improve the current circumstances into better circumstances.

See how that works? The world, despite your apparent desire to see it so, is not one-dimensional. It's not black and white. Very few things exist completely independent of any other things, and a single change can have much larger consequences than a superficial glance may indicate. Perhaps the situation would benefits from the stepmother in this case taking some practical steps to improve the situation, rather than praying for divine intervention. In the entire history of the world, humans have been the one to step up, no god or God in evidence. Often times, that human steps up on his or her own behalf - it's normally considered a viable option by reasonable adults.

I can't even remotely understand how you don't see it that way.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

Don't you mean to say, "He never promised you a rose garden"?

And you are right.  Those damn greedy starving kids deserve that they get.

You cannot blame God and at the same time deny his existence.  If there is no god then why are those kids starving?  Because the earth cannot make enough food?  If the earth can make enough food then why are people starving?  They starve because of human greed.

Here's an example.

Question: Why does the government pay farmers not to grow crops?

Robert Frank: Paying farmers not to grow crops was a substitute for agricultural price support programs designed to ensure that farmers could always sell their crops for enough to support themselves. The price support program meant that farmers had to incur the expense of plowing their fields, fertilizing, irrigating, spraying, and harvesting them, and then selling their crops to the government, which stored them in silos until they either rotted or were consumed by rodents. It was much cheaper just to pay farmers not to grow the crops in the first place.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2009/08/why-does-the-govt-pay-farmers.html

See.  Not God.  Man.

There are more than two choices. There's no reason to assume that anyone is suggesting that they can either behave as they are, or like the OP, with no other alternative. Well, I guess maybe you are.

See what I wrote.  "You'd prefer them to act more like you."  There's many dimensions in there, ranging from a little bit to a lot.

Do you realize that you just took a stance in favor of their pending homelessness in order to score some kind of imaginary point against a stranger on the internet with whom you appear to be trying to pick a fight?

This is not trying to pick a fight.

I can see how her exposing things would frustrate you.  I'm not sure how being duped fits in to this.  It seems you are implying she doesn't provide much practical help.  Is that correct?

This is expressing understanding and asking clarifying questions to fully understand another point of view.

This is trying to pick a fight.

DUPED BY RELIGION YOU FOOL.  (to deceive, esp by trickery; make a dupe or tool of; cheat; fool)....which you obviously are. Sad for you. Like that you are here giving it a whirl though. Try again.

Perhaps the situation would benefits from the stepmother in this case taking some practical steps to improve the situation, rather than praying for divine intervention.

Can you see by my question I was trying to determine that exact answer?

The world, despite your apparent desire to see it so, is not one-dimensional. It's not black and white.

It seems to come easy to you.  Which am I?  Black or white?

[carstensenscott]

Jstwebbrowsing, I missed where any one besides you gave any credibility to god in any fashion in this thread. So blaming and denying would be irrelevant. I don't believe in any god. That is why I am here. YOU? Troll? Trying to save our souls? Blah. Get the gubby to pay for a church so you can lure poor minds to the cerebral demise you prescribe.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

Jstwebbrowsing, I missed where any one besides you gave any credibility to god in any fashion in this thread. So blaming and denying would be irrelevant. I don't believe in any god. That is why I am here. YOU? Troll? Trying to save our souls? Blah. Get the gubby to pay for a church so you can lure poor minds to the cerebral demise you prescribe.

This is a public forum.  You made a public post.  I questioned the post.  That is not trolling.  If you wanted to have a private pity and bashing party you should have just said so.  I will leave you to it.

[carstensenscott]

Derp. Its the equivalent of a drunk with a bottle at an AA meeting. What dont you get.

The troll came with a question mark. I was asking why you were here. Jstsnivling.

[DumpsterFire]

You cannot blame God and at the same time deny his existence.  If there is no god then why are those kids starving?

It is incredibly frustrating when theists say things such as this, akin to "If there's no god, why do you guys talk about him so much?"

The point is if there is an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god, why are those kids starving? You blame it on human greed, but if the god you believe in truly exists, is he not powerful enough to provide all his children with food? If there actually is a god, the fact that there are starving and suffering children in this world indicates that he either lacks the power or the will to intervene, and either reason makes your god, should he in fact exist, unworthy of worship.

When an atheist uses examples such as "Why does god allow X to happen...?," it is simply an attempt to demonstrate the logical contradictions inherent in religious belief, not an acknowledgement that god actually exists. Jst, you have been around here long enough that you should know that.

[Azdgari]

^^ Seconded.  Here's a non-theistic example of what DumpsterFire is talking about...


Fred, enthusiastic:  Hey Joe, I built this amazing infinite energy machine, it's capable of powering a million homes - it can power this whole city!

Joe, skeptical:  Uhuh.  Right.  I don't believe you.

Fred, indignant:  Why not?

Joe:  Well, the city's still running on mostly coal power, for starters.  This machine isn't very effective.

Fred:  Oh I'm going to charge them through the nose to use it.  But you can't blame the machine for not powering the city and at the same time deny its existence!


See the problem here, Jst?  Joe was merely pointing out how reality as he sees it doesn't square with the existence of such a device.  Fred decided to misinterpret that as an admission that it exists.  Just like you're doing here with God and starving kids.

[Anfauglir]

My step mother posted this......

Well, then her prayers will not be answered by Yahweh.  He is very specific in the Bible that prayer should be done quietly and without fuss, not broadcast throughout the interwebs.  So she'll get no help from him, if his holy book is to be believed.

What MAY happen though, is that some good people will help her out.  People.  Not god, people.  But I'll bet anything you like that when the people help her, she will thank her god for his assistance.

To me, that is the more terrible thing about religion.  It leads otherwise decent people to dismiss or downgrade the practical assistance that other good people give them.

[stuffin]

And if someone does step up and buys her a house, it is god's will, and if no one does, that will also be god's will.


This god wins no matter what, that is why he is god. 

[Graybeard]

Well, friends. We are in need of prayer....We want what God wants for us but have no clue what that is. Please pray for His wisdom and direction for us.
God knew this before we moved in so I'm not stressed. Just appreciate your prayers.

OK, your job is to forge a letter from a realtor:

Dear <name>

This morning as I left church, I was struck most strongly with a vision of a house. I saw the house most clearly and what is more I saw X <insert number of people in your family plus description> inside. Above the house was an angel smiling. I was wondering what this could mean and why I had been chosen to witness this, when a tall, bearded man dressed in shining white approached me. There was a light accompanying him and I could not see him clearly.

He did not say anything out loud, but I heard in my mind a mellow voice of infinite kindness speak your name and address.

I am therefore forwarding details of the house for your consideration - I feel Someone wants you to be there.

<insert details of a house that you want to live in>

Yours etc,

PS, please do not mention this when you call me; there are those in the office who have a weak faith.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

It is incredibly frustrating when theists say things such as this, akin to "If there's no god, why do you guys talk about him so much?"

It's incredibly frutrating to me for an atheist to say, "If there's a God then goddidit" and refuse to acknowledge the real problem.

You blame it on human greed, but if the god you believe in truly exists, is he not powerful enough to provide all his children with food?

He has.  This earth is capable of producing more than enough food.  It seems to me you are asking why Jehovah doesn't just destroy greedy people or why he doesn't force humans to be obedient to him.  Is this what you're asking?

When an atheist uses examples such as "Why does god allow X to happen...?," it is simply an attempt to demonstrate the logical contradictions inherent in religious belief

To me it seems you are saying, "If God exists then he should do X about Y."  And because he doesn't do what you think he should do, therefore he does not exist.  This is a logical contradiction.

The troll came with a question mark. I was asking why you were here.

Because from what I can tell from your post, it seems like your step mother has a lot in common with my own.  I was going to offer some advice aside from labotomizing her.  But if your only complaint is that she prays then I don't have any and I don't know why you'd want to deprive them of something that brings them comfort and peace of mind.

[12 Monkeys]

DUPED BY RELIGION YOU FOOL.  (to deceive, esp by trickery; make a dupe or tool of; cheat; fool)....which you obviously are. Sad for you. Like that you are here giving it a whirl though. Try again.

Oh I see.  You'd prefer them to act more like you.  Sorry, but I don't see the appeal.  If prayer dupes them into not acting like you then maybe there is something to it afterall and they are better off in need.

Does prayer work for you.....or do you use it to feel better about a dire situation?  God can't lose here,your situation either gets resolved,credit goes to God hearing you,it does not get resolved,God is teaching you a valuable lesson. God wins in the believers eyes everytime,even when he is a vindictive prick for putting you in the situation in the first place.

[12 Monkeys]

It is incredibly frustrating when theists say things such as this, akin to "If there's no god, why do you guys talk about him so much?"

It's incredibly frutrating to me for an atheist to say, "If there's a God then goddidit" and refuse to acknowledge the real problem.

You blame it on human greed, but if the god you believe in truly exists, is he not powerful enough to provide all his children with food?

He has.  This earth is capable of producing more than enough food.  It seems to me you are asking why Jehovah doesn't just destroy greedy people or why he doesn't force humans to be obedient to him.  Is this what you're asking?

When an atheist uses examples such as "Why does god allow X to happen...?," it is simply an attempt to demonstrate the logical contradictions inherent in religious belief

To me it seems you are saying, "If God exists then he should do X about Y."  And because he doesn't do what you think he should do, therefore he does not exist.  This is a logical contradiction.

The troll came with a question mark. I was asking why you were here.

Because from what I can tell from your post, it seems like your step mother has a lot in common with my own.  I was going to offer some advice aside from labotomizing her.  But if your only complaint is that she prays then I don't have any and I don't know why you'd want to deprive them of something that brings them comfort and peace of mind.

If you believe your above statements are true,should you pray? If you pray but also say God should not have to do X or Y,why pray? Like I said God wins either way,he changes his plan for you and grants your prayer or he keeps you on the path he has set for you and you suffer a little. Mind you,you don't really "suffer" like the starving children do. The end result for them is death,and worse if they fail to accept Jesus,their fate Hell for MORE suffering.

  Other than Starbucks getting your coffee order wrong,how much have you suffered?

[Dante]

It's incredibly frutrating to me for an atheist to say, "If there's a God then goddidit" and refuse to acknowledge the real problem.

But most theists always say "goddidit" whenever something good happens, but never when something bad happens. A plane crashes, an earthquake strikes, a tsunami makes landfall, and it's always "god's grace" that allowed any survivors at all, but it's never god's fault it happened in the first place? Why do you get to have it both ways?

He has.  This earth is capable of producing more than enough food.

He has? Why doesn't the earth then produce more than enough food? I'll tell you why. It can't. Not without human intervention.

To me it seems you are saying, "If God exists then he should do X about Y."  And because he doesn't do what you think he should do, therefore he does not exist.  This is a logical contradiction.

If gods exist, they should do something, yet there is no evidence of them doing anything, benevolent or otherwise.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

Does prayer work for you.....or do you use it to feel better about a dire situation?  God can't lose here,your situation either gets resolved,credit goes to God hearing you,it does not get resolved,God is teaching you a valuable lesson. God wins in the believers eyes everytime,even when he is a vindictive prick for putting you in the situation in the first place.

Yes prayer works for me but no I do not give credit like that.  This is my general outlook, "I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."  (Ecc 9:11)

If you believe your above statements are true,should you pray? If you pray but also say God should not have to do X or Y,why pray? Like I said God wins either way,he changes his plan for you and grants your prayer or he keeps you on the path he has set for you and you suffer a little. Mind you,you don't really "suffer" like the starving children do. The end result for them is death,and worse if they fail to accept Jesus,their fate Hell for MORE suffering.

Are you suggesting that because I am not starving that there are no Christians in the world starving?  How about the ones that are just outright persecuted, tortured, and killed because of their beliefs?  Have you ever considered how or why they maintain their integrity?  The world is bigger than you and I and those little children.  How about the ones that have had to deal with atheistic Marxist governments, and still do.

But most theists always say "goddidit" whenever something good happens, but never when something bad happens. A plane crashes, an earthquake strikes, a tsunami makes landfall, and it's always "god's grace" that allowed any survivors at all, but it's never god's fault it happened in the first place? Why do you get to have it both ways?

Just because someone says "goddidit" does not make it so.  Ecc 9:11 above shows that everything "good" or "bad" that happens is not because of divine intervention.  The Bible says that every "good and perfect gift" comes down from heaven but not that everything that happens is because of the expression of divine will.

If some unexplained thing happens and it works out for the good, say a plane is saved from crashing sparing many lives, maybe it was divine intervention and maybe it wasn't.  There is no evidence either way and believing it was an act of God does not make is so.  Nor does believing it was not an act of God make that so.  But it still would not be inappropriate to thank God if for no other reason than to thank him that good things happen.

He has? Why doesn't the earth then produce more than enough food? I'll tell you why. It can't. Not without human intervention.

You act as if thought Jehovah did not think of that.  "And Jehovah God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it." (Gen 2:15)  So once again any failure would be ours and not God's.  The earth has everything it needs, and humans are an important part of that need.  It is ours to take care of.

If gods exist, they should do something, yet there is no evidence of them doing anything, benevolent or otherwise.

He has given us guidance to direct us for our own good.  We would benefit by taking that guidance.  But it is entirely possible that his ultimate solution for mankind's problems is still future.