Author Topic: the absolution of sin  (Read 471 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3748
  • Darwins +67/-10
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
the absolution of sin
« on: February 10, 2013, 03:34:52 PM »
Is there a sin Jesus can fail to save you from

 Example 1

 Thou shalt not kill

 Murderer on his execution day accepts Jesus as his Lord,even though it is a commandment you must obey,is he free of the mortal sin?

Example 2

thou shalt not commit adultery

 A famous televangelist cheats on his wife,breaks the command of God,but accepts Jesus as his lord,free from his mortal sin?

 Example 3

 Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

 Thousands if not millions of religious people work the Sabbath,only the most devout keep it as God commands,they accept Jesus is it ok to continue disobeying God?

 Religious people go through their lives breaking commandments,yet they expect it to be good with their God because they have Jesus to make it ok

 Thoughts on why it is OK for them to break commandments?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10294
  • Darwins +177/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2013, 03:53:47 PM »
According, there is one sin for which there is no forgiveness.  Blasphemy against the Holy Spook.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Spit

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Darwins +8/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 07:28:30 PM »
According, there is one sin for which there is no forgiveness.  Blasphemy against the Holy Spook.
That's going to end badly for you!  :blank:

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10294
  • Darwins +177/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2013, 07:44:05 PM »
I know.  I'm under my bed now. ;)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Bluecolour

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 55
  • Darwins +3/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 08:51:16 PM »
You're intentionally making it seem like Christianity is about giving people a licence to be immoral. Your even phrasing it so that it would appear as if all religious people were condemnable hypocrites. But its called forgiveness not sanction.
Would you enjoy it if someone started a thread on how atheism gave people the right to live debauched and godless lifestyles? The fact that certain people abuse their autonomy under a particular worldview does not give anyone the right to blanket criticism. Had you phrased this differently, without the offensive generalizations and the directly misleading accusations, then I know many Christians who would actually agree with you. But rather than being thoughtful and thought-provoking you've ended up being insensitive, making claims and assumptions about us and then asking why we are such bad people.
As for your question, if you really want to know, then I suggest you find some good, honest, decent Christians and ask them about it, though i'd advise you not be as insulting to them as you were here.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 08:53:30 PM by Bluecolour »

Offline The Gawd

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
  • Darwins +78/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 02:31:39 AM »
You're intentionally making it seem like Christianity is about giving people a licence to be immoral. Your even phrasing it so that it would appear as if all religious people were condemnable hypocrites. But its called forgiveness not sanction.
Would you enjoy it if someone started a thread on how atheism gave people the right to live debauched and godless lifestyles? The fact that certain people abuse their autonomy under a particular worldview does not give anyone the right to blanket criticism. Had you phrased this differently, without the offensive generalizations and the directly misleading accusations, then I know many Christians who would actually agree with you. But rather than being thoughtful and thought-provoking you've ended up being insensitive, making claims and assumptions about us and then asking why we are such bad people.
As for your question, if you really want to know, then I suggest you find some good, honest, decent Christians and ask them about it, though i'd advise you not be as insulting to them as you were here.

The problem here is that you refuse to look at that and see what the problem is. Why would the only unforgivable sin be blasphemy? Think about what that means. Who does a rule like that serve and what sense does it make? Its CLEARLY a rule to control your thought. Murderer? All good. Thief? All good. Rapist? All good. Freethinker? Doomed to hell. Now why would a freethinker be doomed to hell? Because they promote idea that PROVE this whole thing is a sham, and that, friend, takes money out of the collection plate. Making people believe they are sinners but allowing them in adds money to the collection plate... or perfect goats to the priest or whatever they used to give.

And yes this doctrine does give carte blanche to do whatever one pleases, so long as they dont think freely. Christians seem to have no problem taking advantage of this freedom.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 11496
  • Darwins +556/-22
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 09:26:38 AM »
...Christianity is about giving people a licence to be immoral.

It kind of is. 

Your even phrasing it so that it would appear as if all religious people were condemnable hypocrites.

They are.  Isn't that what xians say?  People are horrid, abominable sinners?  We are all going to hell, or would be, if not for jesus H getting himself executed?  (Why does no one think to thank the Romans for doing the dirty work?)  When we are birthed into the world, we are sinners judged by yhwh as inadequate and are headed for damnation.  In xian theology, all people (not just the religious ones) are condemnable hypocrites and worse.  Yet yhwh loves us more than anything. 

But its called forgiveness not sanction.

Po-TAY-tow  Po-TAH- tow.

Would you enjoy it if someone started a thread on how atheism gave people the right to live debauched and godless lifestyles?

That used to be a daily occurrence when more xians came here. And no, I did not like it.

The fact that certain people abuse their autonomy under a particular worldview does not give anyone the right to blanket criticism.

It's how the game is played.  We are just pointing out the rules of the game and how it can be exploited.  Yes, yes, people are supposed to be good and then retroactively seek redemption.  But we all acknowledge it as fact: people cannot be good.  So given this, and looking forward at forgiveness also as being a given, it actually is license, particularly for the cynical. 

Suppose your wife said she didn't want you banging other broads.  But she also said if you banged other broads, she would forgive you for it, no matter how many times you did it.  No ultimatums.  No "this is the last time" speeches.  Just an apology and forgiveness.  Can you really say, then, that there is a rule against banging other broads?  Is there any incentive to not bang other broads?  I say, no.  You are defacto in an open relationship.

People do not refrain from doing shitty things to each other because of god.  People behave because of the societal consequences.  xianity is just what allows jerks to sleep at night after they have done whatever shitty things they did. 
 
...I suggest you find some good, honest, decent Christians

yeah.  as if those just grow on trees...
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 12:11:30 PM by screwtape »
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Jag

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1327
  • Darwins +154/-5
  • Gender: Female
  • Official WWGHA Harpy, Ex-rosary squad
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 11:33:47 AM »
Would you enjoy it if someone started a thread on how atheism gave people the right to live debauched and godless lifestyles?
Do you have any idea how often this happens? Any guesses about how often it happens in real life, face to face interactions?  We could fill page after page with the offensive, insulting things we hear from theists, based on our inability to believe in any of the various versions of god we've been expected to accept at face value, despite all the conflicting theories about what he wants, and how best to give it to him.

Quote
As for your question, if you really want to know, then I suggest you find some good, honest, decent Christians and ask them about it, though i'd advise you not be as insulting to them as you were here.

Ok, then ignore the insulting tone and, if you self-identify as a "good, honest, decent Christian", please answer the questions. So far, you look like the only christian participating. If you don't step up, we're stuck with Wayne, and he'll just tell us a story about how he had a dream about this 27 years ago, and that somehow, this explains the glory of the lord.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline pianodwarf

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4328
  • Darwins +204/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Je bois ton lait frappĂ©
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 11:40:58 AM »
Would you enjoy it if someone started a thread on how atheism gave people the right to live debauched and godless lifestyles?
Do you have any idea how often this happens?

Indeed...



Which would be funny if it were less true.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Graybeard

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6164
  • Darwins +408/-13
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 12:23:48 PM »
You're intentionally making it seem like Christianity is about giving people a licence to be immoral. Your even phrasing it so that it would appear as if all religious people were condemnable hypocrites.
Shouldn't you be out somewhere selling indulgences?
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3748
  • Darwins +67/-10
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2013, 02:27:58 PM »
Bluecolor,in the examples I have given,could you please point out where I may have been wrong?

Are these people all free from sins they have committed (as are all Christians) because they have accepted Jesus as their lord and  saviour ?

 The other Question is there a sin that can't be forgiven if you accept Jesus?

 And how exactly are the questions insulting?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 02:30:51 PM by 12 Monkeys »
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3748
  • Darwins +67/-10
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: the absolution of sin
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 02:35:36 PM »
ANNNNND can you find me a good honest Christian I may ask......the only one I have ever encountered was the fictional character by the name of Ned Flanders.

 Can you disobey the commands of God if you accept his son as your "lord and saviour"?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 02:37:31 PM by 12 Monkeys »
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)