Sunday morning preacher

[Quesi]

Wow.  Woke up early this morning, and had the tv on in the background while I was drinking coffee and answering emails.  I ended up with one of those Sunday morning preachers.  And let me tell you.  This guy is EVIL.

The premise of the sermon was that some folks don’t tithe enough, and others don’t tithe joyfully.  So he went on to basically argue that god had given his son Jesus to us, and he really expects us to give something in return.
He went on to cite some line from the OT about some folks who were really poor, but really joyous, and drew the conclusion that they were joyous because they gave to god. 

And the next logical leap was, if you are poor and you are not joyous, it is because you are not giving enough (money) to god (his church).

This slimy bastard.  He preys on the poor to make himself rich.

Now I am all about giving to others, and there are so many things that he could have suggested.  I mean, anyone who has electricity in their homes and a tv to watch him is a little better off than somebody who doesn’t.  If he had suggested that, hey, you’ve fallen on tough times, and sometimes you struggle to put a big pot of stew on the table for your kids, but there is this family down the street whose kids only eat the subsidized school lunches and nothing else, maybe you can invite them over to dinner once a week, and stretch the stew out with some extra potatoes or chicken bones or yams or something that would fill up their tummies and share their company.

But no.  This was not about helping others.  This was about sacrifice to this preacher’s church.

Evil.  Why is this kind of greed even legal? 

[Azdgari]

Not only legal.  Tax-exempt.

[Nick]

I always say preachers put con men to shame.

And your term "evil" fits like a glove.  How can anyone buy the reasoning that a Jesus died so we would send money to a church?  It is sick but the slimy preachers continue to go on and on.

See!!!  You got me worked up and I did not even see the show.

[Nick]

It must be karma or something.  I just saw a story about a priest just now.  A Conn. priest (61 yrs old) has been accused of selling meth and may have bought an adult shop with the drug money.  Story was on MSNBC.  Wonder if he used church collection money to get started in the business? 

Keep giving because that is what Jesus wants you to do.

[kcrady]

Our Scripture passage for today is Matthew 25:34-46 (Revised Standard Edition, emphasis added):

"Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’ Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’ Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

So, no.  If these charlatans paid one bit of attention to the homeless communist hippie they profess to worship, they'd have to see to it that the money went in the opposite direction.

[ParkingPlaces]

I've known people who give their church $1000 a month. Minimum.

Christianity can't afford me.

Which means that my atheism works out for both parties. They don't have to cuss because the poor guy isn't giving them enough, and I, as the poor guy, don't have to waste money on rich fools. It is a win-win situation.

You would think that once it was found that Jim and Tammy Faye Baker had full trays of cinnamon rolls delivered to their house on a regular basis just to make the place smell good (not for eating) at a cost of something close to $100 a day, the jig would be up. But nope. People don't learn.

[wheels5894]

Its not just the charlatan preachers either. the mainstream churches - Catholic, Epsicopal, Protestant - are all the same. They work hard to make up Stewardship, used to get people to pay up money to god based on various scripture passages yet, in essence, its about a membership fee for being a member.

I used to be an organist in various denominations and saw various clergy decide they wanted money for something or other and getting thousands donated to help them. One was just after a redecorate with gold leaf when there was lots of money needed for other more urgent church repairs.

It is certainly the case that churches ought to manage to sort themselves out and have a membership fee system and lose their tax concessions.

[Disciple of Sagan]

Now, now... I think you're all being a little unfair to the Catholic church. Why, their monthly expenditures for lollypops, relocation costs for priests and hush money alone must put a hefty dent in their coffers...

[Graybeard]

This slimy bastard.  He preys on the poor to make himself rich.

Evil.  Why is this kind of greed even legal?

It is God's Law: Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes & offerings.

As you see this is OT thinking and it used to be that you gave the firstlings of your flock or field to the priests, but God finds hard cash much more convenient, don't you?

My elder son describes tithes, etc., as "a stupidity tax" The more stupid you are, the more you pay. It is to be hoped that after a while people will learn and become less stupid.

You shouldn't go to church anyway - Jesus changed that, He was opposed to the Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, etc who organised temples and gained great wealth:

M't:6:6: But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Lu:12:3: Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

M't:23:16: Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
M't:23:17: Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?


Yet, because those likely to give have never read a Bible, they think that "Christianity-lite" demands you go to church: it doesn't.

I must say that this ripping off of the ignorant and stupid is mainly an American phenomenon. There was an attempt to introduce megachurches in the UK, in the late 60s, early 70s, but they failed through lack of attendance.

[Morgan]

Low-content post, but this reminds me of a song of Voltaire's:

Well the preacher on the TV
He tells me if I'm poor
I should give him all my money
Cause the Lord will give me more
Well I saw him wink and
Drag a sack of cash on out the door
Well, he bought himself a Cadillac
And now I got less than before!

[screwtape]

meh.  I'm on the fence.  The good person in me - the one who empathizes with the downtrodden and wants to protect the weak - wants to rip the spines out of such con men preachers.  Because, let's face it, they are liars and thieves twice over.  The first time is when they take money from gullible fools who haven't really got it.  The second is time is when they deliver poisonous idea into the populace.  Abstinence only.  Anti-abortion.  Creationism.  Anti-scienceism. Faith-based anything.

The other person in me - the one who thinks stupidity is the biggest problem homo sapiens faces - doesn't care.  The stupid should be bred out of the gene pool, so ultimately, I think whatever bad befalls them as a result of being stupid, they deserve.  If people are so dumb as to give money freely to some obvious liar, well, maybe I should get in on that? 

I'm not sure which internal person is winning the internal argument.

[Anfauglir]

The stupid should be bred out of the gene pool, so ultimately, I think whatever bad befalls them as a result of being stupid, they deserve. 

Thing is, we DO have reasonably good Welfare systems in the UK and US.  Sure, there's problems, but for the most part people won't starve.  Give all your money to the church, and you won't die - you'll live on, on benefits.

Have you ever watched the film "Idiocracy"?  Based on the idea that stupid people will procreate "all willy-nilly", while the intelligent are more likely to delay, have fewer children, or have none at all - with the result that (now that we have enough safeguards that stupidity is less likely to lead to death than 100+ years ago), we will eventually be in a world that is 99.999% stupid.

[ParkingPlaces]

we will eventually be in a world that is 99.999% stupid.

We can only hope. That would be such an improvement over the current ratio... 

[The Gawd]

by hindering natural selection we've essentially doomed ourselves lol

[screwtape]

Based on the idea that stupid people will procreate "all willy-nilly", while the intelligent are more likely to delay, have fewer children, or have none at all - with the result that (now that we have enough safeguards that stupidity is less likely to lead to death than 100+ years ago), we will eventually be in a world that is 99.999% stupid.

True.  I am not exaggerating when I say stupid people is the biggest problem in the world.  That is why I would support some sort of a program to reduce the stupid.  That could be encouraging or subsidizing the smartest 10% to produce offspring.  I'd probably also support either sterilizing the stupid ones or quarantining them to Texas (or some other sufficiently undesirable piece of land).

I also think all elected officials should have to pass an IQ test and a psychological screening.  We need to at least prevent the idiots and sociopaths from getting into positions of leadership.

[Disciple of Sagan]

I also think all elected officials should have to pass an IQ test and a psychological screening.  We need to at least prevent the idiots and sociopaths from getting into positions of leadership.

I think it was Sam Harris in his book "The End of Faith" who said (going by memory here): "We live in a country where a former Hollywood actor clutching a bible could be elected president, and not a rocket scientist who professed not to believe in god."

[nogodsforme]

The atheist scientist is probably really an atheist-- few people would make a claim that would, guranteed, make them lose the election if it was not true. Just like someone who says they are gay probably is--why would you lie about something that many people would hate you for? 

But the actor clutching the bible only has to fake it. He never even has to go to church, just make religious sounding mouth noises. Because nobody has yet devised a way to tell fake religiosity from real.

Wait a minute....