Author Topic: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]  (Read 1250 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pianodwarf

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 4371
  • Darwins +208/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Je bois ton lait frappé
Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« on: January 19, 2013, 04:15:36 PM »
I read your article. Over and over you state that God ignores the prayers of amputees.

Two things: First of all, God doesn't ignore the prayers of anyone, including amputees. There is no reason for him to single out amputees and say, "No matter what, I'm not going to listen to a single prayer from that person because he or she is an amputee." What a disingenuous statement.

The second is that God performs miracles all the time, some of which may include restoration of limbs to amputees. Maybe not every time but that's for God to decide, not you or I. The fact that neither of us may have heard about it is simply anecdotal and doesn't mean that it never happens.

Why God might not restore the limb of an amputee, cause a person with a spinal cord injury to walk again, or make it so that a person doesn't die has nothing to do with God's love or Jesus' promises. It has everything to do with the geography in which we live. The reality is that we live in a fallen world in which Satan reigns. God reigns in Heaven and can reign within situations or circumstances here on earth. But because we live in a fallen world, there are conditions such as disease, cruelty, missing limbs, and the like that simply exist as a consequence of that fallen world.

Could God change this in a heartbeat? Sure he could. And he will. But the time for that is God's choosing, not ours. That's what makes him God and not us.

To conclude that God ignores the prayers of amputees is ludicrous.

With warm regards,

[name and telephone number removed]
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Online ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6760
  • Darwins +819/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • If you are religious, you are misconcepted
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2013, 04:31:29 PM »
A) We haven't concluded that he doesn't heal amputees. We have concluded that he doesn't exist. Just want you to be sure about that part.

B) Yours is probably about the 2,673rd reason given to explain why he doesn't heal amputees. We've heard a wide range of excuses. As I end up asking of all theists who assume they have it right, could you please check with your fellow believers, get your stories to match, and then come thump us over the head with one agreed on version of your religion. It is hard enough choosing the right pair of jeans out of dozens of kinds. Something like religion, if true, should be, oh, you know, consistent within its environment.

Yours isn't. Fix it please.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline Irish

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3153
  • Darwins +18/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Moraxella catarrhalis on BA
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2013, 05:27:22 PM »
Just a lot of special pleading.
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10578
  • Darwins +192/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2013, 05:27:36 PM »
(1) I think if an amputee had been healed we might have caught wind of it.  The world is pretty wired today.

(2) How do you know He does not hate amputees?

(3) The world is fallen?  Why is that?  Some apple and talking snake thing?  And I thought you people believed that your imaginary God kicking the bucket on a cross took care of that fallen world thing.  JUst how long do we have to suffer for fruit?  I suppose those kids getting shot in Conn elem school had to have that happen because your God gave Satan the run of the place?  And why is that?  Can't He control His creations?  If He does exist, He is a monster or a special ed God or both.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Aaron123

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2781
  • Darwins +80/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2013, 07:41:33 PM »
Quote
Could God change this in a heartbeat? Sure he could. And he will. But the time for that is God's choosing, not ours. That's what makes him God and not us.

Once more, we have a god that behaves as though it was non-existence.

Do they really think atheists will be impressed by this "fallen world" crap?  Or that we'll actually be impressed by the "god will do something... someday" speech?  Well, I guess if they're unfazed by the fact that their god has done nothing about this "fallen world" for 6,000 years...[1]
 1. Yes, I know some will bring up Jesus.  But even then, the idea is suppose to be that he saves us in the afterlife, not that he made life in this world better.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Online Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 13050
  • Darwins +354/-85
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 12:59:28 AM »
I read your article. Over and over you state that God ignores the prayers of amputees.

It sure does.

Quote
Two things: First of all, God doesn't ignore the prayers of anyone, including amputees. There is no reason for him to single out amputees and say, "No matter what, I'm not going to listen to a single prayer from that person because he or she is an amputee." What a disingenuous statement.

It states in the Bible: if you ask, you shall receive. Many Bible-thumpers pray all the time, and they never get their prayers answered. Sounds like Biblegod is a liar.

Quote
The second is that God performs miracles all the time, some of which may include restoration of limbs to amputees.

Evidence?

Quote
Maybe not every time but that's for God to decide, not you or I.

If the Bible says: ask, and you shall recieve then that's all the time and not some of the time.

Quote
The fact that neither of us may have heard about it is simply anecdotal and doesn't mean that it never happens.

Sure it does.

Quote
Why God might not restore the limb of an amputee, cause a person with a spinal cord injury to walk again, or make it so that a person doesn't die has nothing to do with God's love or Jesus' promises.

Again: it says it in the Bible. Are you saying the Bible is lying to people? Sounds like it.

Quote
It has everything to do with the geography in which we live. The reality is that we live in a fallen world in which Satan reigns. God reigns in Heaven and can reign within situations or circumstances here on earth. But because we live in a fallen world, there are conditions such as disease, cruelty, missing limbs, and the like that simply exist as a consequence of that fallen world.

Hilarious, excuses abound.

Quote
Could God change this in a heartbeat? Sure he could. And he will. But the time for that is God's choosing, not ours. That's what makes him God and not us.

No, that's what makes it non-existent. Learn the difference.

Quote
To conclude that God ignores the prayers of amputees is ludicrous.

It is ludricous for something that doesn't exist to answer prayers.

-Nam
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 01:02:26 AM by Nam »
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 13050
  • Darwins +354/-85
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2013, 01:08:50 AM »
(1) I think if an amputee had been healed we might have caught wind of it.  The world is pretty wired today.

(2) How do you know He does not hate amputees?

(3) The world is fallen?  Why is that?  Some apple and talking snake thing?  And I thought you people believed that your imaginary God kicking the bucket on a cross took care of that fallen world thing.  JUst how long do we have to suffer for fruit?  I suppose those kids getting shot in Conn elem school had to have that happen because your God gave Satan the run of the place?  And why is that?  Can't He control His creations?  If He does exist, He is a monster or a special ed God or both.

What I find funny is that Satan has massacred more people since the very first Bible was created but in the Bible he only killed, what 10? And 6+ of those were by the permission of Biblegod.

It's funny how that works out. In the Bible: about 10, outside the Bible: countless.

Biblegod in the Bible: countless, outside the Bible: none.

Idiots.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7314
  • Darwins +171/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2013, 10:11:59 AM »
Sweet, then all you need to do is come join the forum, and show us clear evidence that any amputee has had a limb replaced by miracle, as a result of prayer. 

Offline shnozzola

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1968
  • Darwins +110/-2
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 05:20:48 PM »
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/video8.htm

I was a christian for many years.   Looking back, now as an atheist, what is ludicrous is the amount of steps necessary for logical believers to construct supports to "cover" for the "gallon of milk's" inaction.

Quote
The reality is that we live in a fallen world in which Satan reigns.

I had discarded this part of christian belief very early in life. I find the above statement ludicrous that the supreme creator/ruler would allow a "satan" character to rule a "fallen" world. I won't even pretend to understand what life would be like with a belief like that.  How sad.  Is it dangerous to your christian beliefs to not question this?  As we learn about mental health, earthquakes, diseases, the upbringing of children, rehabilitation - the whole idea of evil frankly is a naive, angry, and troubled way to view life.  Society needs to get past the concept of evil.

Quote
Could God change this in a heartbeat? Sure he could. And he will. But the time for that is God's choosing, not ours. That's what makes him God and not us.

He will?  Why?  Please become a member, and please think through your arguments why you think the supreme creator and ruler of the universe would act this way? 

If your views are absolutely correct, is it a game?  Good versus evil - throw the dice, and see how the humans on that planet react?  Ludicrous.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 05:26:06 PM by shnozzola »
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs

Offline hickdive

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 935
  • Darwins +33/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2013, 07:00:07 AM »
I read your article. Over and over you state that God ignores the prayers of amputees.

Two things: First of all, God doesn't ignore the prayers of anyone, including amputees. There is no reason for him to single out amputees and say, "No matter what, I'm not going to listen to a single prayer from that person because he or she is an amputee." What a disingenuous statement.


However, no amputee has ever had a limb restored by supernatural means. Therefore either god DOES ignore amputees or it doesn't exist.

The second is that God performs miracles all the time, some of which may include restoration of limbs to amputees. Maybe not every time but that's for God to decide, not you or I. The fact that neither of us may have heard about it is simply anecdotal and doesn't mean that it never happens.

However, the decision in the case of amputees is invariably 'no'. Either god has something against them or it doesn't exist.

Why God might not restore the limb of an amputee, cause a person with a spinal cord injury to walk again, or make it so that a person doesn't die has nothing to do with God's love or Jesus' promises. It has everything to do with the geography in which we live. The reality is that we live in a fallen world in which Satan reigns. God reigns in Heaven and can reign within situations or circumstances here on earth. But because we live in a fallen world, there are conditions such as disease, cruelty, missing limbs, and the like that simply exist as a consequence of that fallen world.

So this god of yours is not omnipotent?

Could God change this in a heartbeat? Sure he could. And he will. But the time for that is God's choosing, not ours. That's what makes him God and not us.

To conclude that God ignores the prayers of amputees is ludicrous.

So it IS omnipotent? Make your mind up, please.

No, to conclude that a god not only exists but does heal amputees when there is no evidence at all for either is ludicrous.
Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6219
  • Darwins +411/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2013, 08:40:18 AM »
Christian#2673, you've made a number of points:

God doesn't ignore the prayers of anyone
God performs miracles all the time
God reigns in Heaven and can reign within situations or circumstances here on earth.
Could God change this in a heartbeat? Sure he could.

How interesting.  So you worship a "god" that doesn't ignore prayers; is ready and able to do miracles; and can do what he wants on earth, whenever he wants.

So there is NO reason - at all - why this god should not be healing amputees left, right, and centre....in exactly the same way as - we are regularly assured - he intervenes in a direct and tangible way in the lives of all his followers.

It's just that......he never seems to do ANYTHING that couldn't happen exactly the same way by chance.  So please let us know, Christian#2673, what exactly is the difference between the prayers of an amputee for healing, and the prayers of any other Christian for all the many miracles that they - and you - assure us are happening all the time.

Or in other words......if you will.........Why won't  God heal amputees?  When he has no problem - according to you and your fellows - with answering  any and every other prayer with an emphatic and unmistakeably tangible "yes"?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2013, 09:25:49 AM »
Could God change this in a heartbeat? Sure he could. And he will. But the time for that is God's choosing, not ours.

If you saw someone who was hurt, and they asked for help, I bet you would help them. 

If you were able to prevent someone from being hurt in the first place, I bet you would. 

So how is it possible that your god, who supposedly can do anything, doesn't do even the simplest acts of kindness you would do?  That says something about your god.  There are only a few conclusions that could explain it.

To conclude that God ignores the prayers of amputees is ludicrous.

I do not see how you've made that case.  You've said it.  But as long as amputees are not regrowing limbs through divine intervention, I cannot see how you are right.

Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Online ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6760
  • Darwins +819/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • If you are religious, you are misconcepted
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2013, 11:39:57 AM »
I'm with screwtape on this one. If I had the power to feed every hungry child, stop every rape, cure every disease and find everybody's keys, I certainly wouldn't be satisfied just sitting around doing nothing but raking in plaudits from folks who are desperate for me to be real.

And if I wanted everyones love, I'd make myself, oh, you know, lovable.

Religion does two things. It makes up a god or gods, then spends the rest of time excusing the fact that said being(s) don't do diddley.

Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline kaziglu bey

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
  • Darwins +121/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • There is no Big Brother in the sky.
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2013, 02:25:35 PM »
Quote
I read your article. Over and over you state that God ignores the prayers of amputees.

Two things: First of all, God doesn't ignore the prayers of anyone, including amputees. 
Oh please. Jesus says if you ask for something in his name, you will get it. There's no strings attached, no fine print, no "Well maybe the answer you will get is "no"" nonsense, no excuses at all. Therefore, according to Jesus, an amputee who asks for their leg to spontaneously regenerate should have their leg spontaneously regenerate. There is no way around it.  Either Jesus is wrong, a liar, or imaginary. In all of those cases he would be unworthy of worship.
Quote
There is no reason for him to single out amputees and say, "No matter what, I'm not going to listen to a single prayer from that person because he or she is an amputee." What a disingenuous statement.
Disingenuous how? The only way that could be disingenuous is if people were constantly regenerating limbs in response to prayer. But that is obviously not the case, hence this website. If people had limbs restored in response to prayer, there would be no need to ask why God doesn't heal amputees. There are zero documented cases of this happening, and please don't say the Miracle of Calanda, it seems like a very obvious hoax.

Quote
The second is that God performs miracles all the time,
Uh no, he does not. If God was constantly interfering with the natural order at the behest of his followers, many of whom pray for opposing things (Palestinians praying for the Jews to die while the Jews pray for the Palestinians to die, while the skinheads pray for both of them to die, etc), someone would notice. We have the scientific know how to observe some pretty fantastic phenomena, and I hardly doubt that millions of scientists would miss the fact that the operating principles of the universe are constantly being suspended. Can you please give us an example of one of these many, many miracles God does? Remember, if it is something that could possibly have happened without God, some way, even if the probability is remote that it could happen naturally, it is not a miracle. It may be "statistically miraculous" so to speak, as in very unpredictable, but that doesn't make it a miracle. It must be something that only God could do. You know, like spontaneously regenerate a limb, which of course never happens, which is of course our point to begin with. The things that only  a God could do, never happen.
Quote
some of which may include restoration of limbs to amputees. 
Aha! "may include"?  In other words, you don't actually have the confidence to say "Yes, I KNOW my God heals amputees, he does that shit in his sleep, here let me cut my arm off and I'll show you!" Nope, no confidence whatsoever in this so called friend of yours. Restoration of limbs would be something that He would be especially good at, because only He could do it, but He never does.
Quote
Maybe not every time but that's for God to decide, 
Maybe not everytime?? How about he never does? Are you getting that yet? You are saying that at least some of the time there ought to be restored missing limbs, but this has never happened. For all of your slithering about the problem, you are still wrong. Plus, you continue to ignore the promise of Jesus that anything you ask for you get it. You're adding fine print to the statements of your supreme ruler. I don't think He would appreciate that at all.
Quote
not you or I. 
No one is suggesting that we should be able to decide when this happens. All we are asking is whether or not Jesus was a liar, wrong, or imaginary.
Quote
The fact that neither of us may have heard about it is simply anecdotal and doesn't mean that it never happens.
The fact that neither of us may have heard about it Thor smashing a giants skull in is simply anecdotal and doesn't mean that it never happens. See, this sorry excuse for "logic" is just embarrassing, and means one can believe in just about anything. It reminds me of Hermione's outrage at Xenophilius Lovegood in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. Lovegood tells Hermione, regarding whether the Resurrection Stone is real, "Prove that it is not". Hermione says "But that's, I'm sorry, but that's completely ridiculous! How can I possibly prove it doesn't exist? Do you expect me to get a hold of-- of all the pebbles in the world and test them? I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for believing in it is that nobody's proved that it doesn't exist!" So I ask you, do you believe in the Crumple Horned Snorkack? Because the nonsense you are giving us is like trying to talk to Xenophilius Lovegood.

Quote
Why God might not restore the limb of an amputee, cause a person with a spinal cord injury to walk again, or make it so that a person doesn't die has nothing to do with God's love or Jesus' promises.
You can't be serious. Ok, well let's see what the reason is according to you. 
Quote
It has everything to do with the geography in which we live.
Wow......
Quote
The reality is that we live in a fallen world in which Satan reigns. God reigns in Heaven and can reign within situations or circumstances here on earth. But because we live in a fallen world, there are conditions such as disease, cruelty, missing limbs, and the like that simply exist as a consequence of that fallen world.
Wow, you really CAN convince yourself of anything can't you? Well then what about all of these miracles that you insist are happening all of the time? Why is it that God cannot wrest complete reign of the earth back from Satan? Is he really that weak?

Quote
Could God change this in a heartbeat? Sure he could. And he will. But the time for that is God's choosing, not ours. That's what makes him God and not us.
What a pethetic copout.This is so sad it's not worth the time to rebut.

Quote
To conclude that God ignores the prayers of amputees is ludicrous.
This is a complete non-sequitur based on your post. You gave no evidence at all that God actually restores lost limbs. You asserted at the beginning that God is answering prayers and doing miracles all of the time. Then it's just that these things happen all of the time but we don't hear about them. Then it's due to Satan's reign of Earth, and God doesn't want to fix things just yet. For someone who thinks that it's not left up to us to decide the will of God, you sure seem to think that you know a lot about the will of God.

Quote
With warm regards,
Cuz them fires in hell be HOT!
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2013, 03:28:21 PM »
Your god is not good at all, if he exists. He does not even follow the golden rule--would he want to have anyone behave towards him the way he treats us? Would you want any human to treat you the way he treats us?

He doesn't do what the lowliest sentient being on the planet understands to be "good". Like do no intentional harm, help the weakest first, prevent bad stuff whenever possible, and try to fix any bad stuff that you could not prevent. My doggies are better at this than your god. &)

The best god can do is offer "comfort" to those who have enough faith. And the possibility of fixing everything later. For those who have enough faith. After standing around letting everything go to hell for long enough, so most everyone has lost faith.  :?

But don't question any of this, because god knows more than we do, and has his own ways of doing things.  And questions would imply a lack of faith so you would miss out on all those faith-based goodies... ;)

Doesn't this have the ring of the biggest con job ever? >:(
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2013, 03:40:28 PM »
And if I wanted everyones love, I'd make myself, oh, you know, lovable.

If only it were that easy...
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Online Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 13050
  • Darwins +354/-85
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Why won't God heal amputees? [#2717]
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2013, 09:58:21 PM »
I am lovable[1].

-Nam
 1. to a scorpion
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.