Author Topic: God [#2715]  (Read 1401 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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God [#2715]
« on: January 15, 2013, 07:12:16 AM »
I am wondering if you have really done exstensive research on Bible or have you allowed the institutions that humans have created to influence your thinking.
 
Have you ever read publications by Watchtower Society.  Challenge them if you like.
 
Did you know that the Bible was not written for religion, denomination, or churches.
 
Did you also know that none of those relgions are mention in the bible neither denomination or churches
 
 
I believe in a Supreme Being and it is not based on any of the above things that i mention.
 
I believe in creation and evolution and i am not confused.
 
Because i have and understanding of them.
 
I consider myself spiritual.
 
I also know that mathematics and logic will prove there is a God
 
 
Have you studied mathematics throughly ?
 
Do you really understand logic ?
 
Do you really comprhend science or  do you have an emotional agenda to teach something you can not disprove logically.
 
When you are done trying to discredit
 
The Supreme Being of the universe, you still have to acknowledge that you are limited in comprehension of things.
and the universe is so awesome.
 
Behind every design is a designer is it not.
 
Have you honestly took a good look at this universe and not see the intelligence behind everything.
and come to the conclusion that, their is no Supreme Being.
 
Do you not know that there is invisible life also.  Can you see everything.
 
The religions,denominations, churches, and other organization are not an excuse for you to discredit the Supreme Being
 
For they do not teach the truth
 
Do you know the truth ?
 
Philosophy  is  real
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline The Gawd

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2013, 07:37:55 AM »


please, give us the One True Teaching of the bible, as revealed to only you and not the other billions of people that claim to follow the bible. I have been waiting for this One True Revelation for 31 years and now that it is finally upon me I can hardly keep from soiling my trouser!

Offline plethora

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2013, 08:40:33 AM »
Behind every design is a designer is it not.

Who designed god?
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2013, 08:44:39 AM »
Quote from: AnotherWitness
I also know that mathematics and logic will prove there is a God (but) you still have to acknowledge that you are limited in comprehension of things.

Connect the dots please - how can you prove something with a limited comprehension?

Quote from: AnotherWitness
Have you honestly took a good look at this universe and not see the intelligence behind everything.
and come to the conclusion that, their is no Supreme Being.

Yes.  I have.  Feel free to join the site and discuss it with me.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline hickdive

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2013, 08:45:13 AM »
Ok, now's your chance.

Using mathematics, logic and philosophy to prove the existence of a Supreme Being, go!

Actually, no. What you'll indulge yourself in, if you bother to respond, will be a lot of metaphorical hand-waving and woo which will persuade no one.

Don't believe me? Ok, let's take your 'mathematical' proof for starters; what value do you give god and why? Exactly the same can be demanded of your 'philosophical' proof; what defines your Supreme Being and why? Once you realise that these definitions and values cannot be described you'll realise that your 'logic' crumbles.

BTW you don't understand evolution. The moment you assume 'design' is involved it is clear you don't understand it at all.
Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline One Above All

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2013, 08:47:56 AM »
Behind every design is a designer is it not.

Who designed god?

I did. Crappy thing it turned out to be.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2013, 08:49:57 AM »
Who designed god?

I did. Crappy thing it turned out to be.

Yeah, he did.  I was the one built him from the plans he supplied.  To be fair though, I just couldn't get the parts.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2013, 08:51:12 AM »
I am wondering if you have really done exstensive research on Bible or have you allowed the institutions that humans have created to influence your thinking.
And then wait and see what the next statement is.....
 
Quote
Have you ever read publications by Watchtower Society.
You are going to allow this institution that humans have created to influence your thinking? Hypocrisy and special pleading in the second sentence. This might be a new record folks.
Quote
Challenge them if you like.
I challenged some sad sad woman who was a JW and came to my door. It was a massacre. She said she would return to continue the discussion. She never has.
 
Quote
Did you know that the Bible was not written for religion, denomination, or churches.
Oh really? Then what was it written for, oh master of all knowledge of the universe?
 
Quote
Did you also know that none of those relgions are mention in the bible neither denomination or churches
Yes, Christians often overlook that Jesus was a (gasp!) Jew. It's not my fault they are idiots.
 
 
Quote
I believe in a Supreme Being and it is not based on any of the above things that i mention.
Nope, you most likely have your own made up hodgepodge of woo.
 
Quote
I believe in creation and evolution and i am not confused.
I beg to differ. I think you are quite confused.
 
Quote
Because i have and understanding of them.
Somehow I doubt you have a good understanding of evolution. Not to generalize, but it is kind of a trademark trait of a theist.
 
Quote
I consider myself spiritual.
  I really hate this phrase. What the hell does that even mean? Lot's of people say this, and it always seems to mean something different, ill defined in all cases, based on no evidence, and it is indistinguishable from religion.
 
Quote
I also know that mathematics and logic will prove there is a God
How do you KNOW this if it hasn't happened yet inspite of thousands of years of mathematics and logic? Why is it that mathematics and logic has consistently provided better explanations for events than "God did it"?
 
 
Quote
Have you studied mathematics throughly ?
No, have you? Are you the mathematical equivalent of Einstein or Newton? No? Then don't lecture us about mathematics.
 
Quote
Do you really understand logic ?
Well I consider it likely that I have taken more college level philosophy courses than you, so while not a master of logic per se, I likely have more mastery than you.
 
Quote
Do you really comprhend science or  do you have an emotional agenda to teach something you can not disprove logically.
Oh come on, this is just sad, and is precisely what theists such as yourself do. YOU have an emotional agenda to teach something that YOU can't PROVE logically. We don't HAVE to disprove your hypothesis, you have to demonstrate its validity. So far you are failing miserably. Furthermore, if overwhelming evidence for the existence of God were to be found (lets say at least as much evidence for the existence of God as there is for evolution, good luck with that), I would have to admit in that case that God was real. This doesn't mean I would worship him though. It's not an emotional agenda at all, in fact the whole point of science is to remove emotional agendas and preconceived notions from our investigation of the universe.
 
Quote
When you are done trying to discredit
 
The Supreme Being of the universe, you still have to acknowledge that you are limited in comprehension of things.
And so are you! But yet you claim to KNOW that logic and math will vindicate your belief in God! You really have no business making such a claim.

Quote
and the universe is so awesome.
And the only reason we know about the awesomeness of the universe is......science! We had to build the Hubble Telescope because the Holy Books are rather short on sweet images of the deep cosmos.
 
Quote
Behind every design is a designer is it not.
The argument from design is so sad its not even worth getting into.
 
Quote
Have you honestly took a good look at this universe and not see the intelligence behind everything.
and come to the conclusion that, their is no Supreme Being.
Where is the intelligence in the appendix that can randomly explode and kill us? Where is the intelligence in arthrogryposis multiplex congenita? Where is the intelligence in Michelle Bachmann? Where is the intelligence in allowing 99%+ of all species that have ever existed to go extinct? Where is the intelligence in an asteroid crashing into earth 65 million years ago, wiping out as much as 60% of all life on the planet at the time? The amazing thing about the universe is that it is such a grand thing, that the laws of physics never do break, that everything operates smoothly, WITHOUT any outside assistance or designer needed. Napoleon reportedly asked Laplace why his work on astronomy did not include God, to which Laplace replied that he had no need of that hypothesis. Whether such a conversation actually took place or not, there is still no need to a God hypothesis to explain anything. This is the hypothesis of those who just give up on exploration and advancement. It's not even an explanation because it doesn't further our understanding of a phenomena at all. If hurricanes and floods and blizzards and droughts and dust storms and all of these sorts of natural phenomena had never been studied, and people just accept God did it as an "explanation", then we wouldn't be able to predict what areas will be hit by hurricanes and floods, wouldn't be able to evacuate people ahead of time, wouldn't be able to build structures to protect from floods, we would still be just as ignorant of these events as the morons present in holy books.
 
Quote
Do you not know that there is invisible life also.
How could you possibly know such a thing?
Quote
Can you see everything.
Well, I can't see MT. Everest from here, so no, but what does this really matter?
 
Quote
The religions,denominations, churches, and other organization are not an excuse for you to discredit the Supreme Being
Yes, yes they are.
 
Quote
For they do not teach the truth
Finally we agree on something!
 
Quote
Do you know the truth ?
Whatever the truth is, it's not your sorry excuse for it.
 
Quote
Philosophy  is  real
Yes, and did not exist until man made it.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2013, 09:33:13 AM »
I am wondering if you have really done exstensive research on Bible or have you allowed the institutions that humans have created to influence your thinking.

The former.
 
Quote
Have you ever read publications by Watchtower Society.  Challenge them if you like.

Why stop there?
 
Quote
Did you know that the Bible was not written for religion, denomination, or churches.

The individual books, maybe, but the bible itself was collated for and by a church.
 
Quote
Did you also know that none of those relgions are mention in the bible neither denomination or churches

Yes, I did know that.  I don't see how it's significant, though.
 
Quote
I also know that mathematics and logic will prove there is a God

How?
 
Quote
Have you studied mathematics throughly ?

No, why?
 
Quote
Do you really understand logic ?

I took a semester of Aristotelian Logic in college, and another semester of symbolic logic.  I got an A in both courses.  Is that good enough for you?
 
Quote
Do you really comprhend science

I believe I have a reasonably good understanding of the scientific method, yes.

Quote
or  do you have an emotional agenda to teach something you can not disprove logically.

I would need to know what the "something" is that you're referring to here to offer a response.
 
Quote
When you are done trying to discredit
 
The Supreme Being of the universe, you still have to acknowledge that you are limited in comprehension of things.

What does one thing have to do with the other?

Quote
and the universe is so awesome.

It certainly is.
 
Quote
Behind every design is a designer is it not.

(Assuming you're referring to the universe, here.)  You are begging the question by assuming the universe was designed.  You cannot assume that, you must demonstrate it.
 
Quote
Have you honestly took a good look at this universe and not see the intelligence behind everything.

No, I don't see any intelligence behind it at all.  Actually, the universe behaves pretty much the same way we would expect it to behave it there were no deities.

Quote
and come to the conclusion that, their is no Supreme Being.

As nearly as I can be certain of anything, yes.
 
Quote
Do you not know that there is invisible life also.

No, I don't know that, and neither do you.  Quite the contrary, everything we've discovered about existence so far indicates that "invisible life" is impossible.

Quote
Can you see everything.

No.  What's your point?  If you want to claim that there may be something that exists but that I cannot perceive, well, that's fine, but as Christopher Hitchens famously said, "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
 
Quote
The religions,denominations, churches, and other organization are not an excuse for you to discredit the Supreme Being

Nor do we need them to use them for that purpose.
 
Quote
For they do not teach the truth

That's for sure.
 
Quote
Do you know the truth ?

What truth?  "There is no spoon"?
 
Quote
Philosophy  is  real

Indeed it is.  I majored in it.  But, again, what's your point?
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2013, 09:36:42 AM »
Who designed god?

I did. Crappy thing it turned out to be.

Indeed.  An analysis of the plans provided by Anfauglir has demonstrated a weakness in the deity.  It's a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2013, 10:12:36 AM »
Why is it that the religious disagree on the specifics of religion, but those of us who agree that science is the best explainer of reality do little bickering about the details? Why aren't there hundreds of versions of the periodic table, each hawked by a branch of science that disses all others? Why aren't there thousands of versions of evolution, each adhered to by the warring members of different denominations of science? Why aren't there Churches of Latter Day Quasars laughing at the First Presupposition Church of the Android Galaxy?

Because science isn't made up and doesn't need variation to satisfy it's followers. Science isn't made up from bits and pieces of broken history and myth. Science isn't made up of what people hope is true. It is made up of truth period. As best explained by current knowledge and technology.

But every single person who believes in a god who shows up on this site has either first state his or her version of religion, or get that version sweated out of them by our insistent questioning, before the discussions can truly be productive. We are forced to assume a generic version of our opponents religion unless or until they clarify. In this instance, the writer has been kind enough to clarify, indirectly, their loyalties, which will speed up the discussion process should the writer return. But when the first hurdle to explaining the "truth" is to tell us which version of the "truth" you adhere to, something in inherently wrong with your argument.

As for me, if asked to respond to the OP, I've asked all sorts of questions. That they don't match your list exactly is sort of because my methods are wanting, I guess. I forgot to take into consideration your specific set of imagined realities. So I failed to follow your exact path. And I guarantee you, nobody else has followed your exact path either. Even amongst fellow members of your congregation.

That's your bad. That is other believers bad. But it is not my bad.

Edit: forgot some question marks, which is more than I can say for the OP.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nick

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 11:18:37 AM »
Isn't JW the group that thinks 144,000 will be "saved" at the end?  If so, and if I were a JW, I would not want to go door to door preaching.  It would cut down on my odds of making the big trip home with sky daddy.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Astreja

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 01:09:58 AM »
Have you ever read publications by Watchtower Society.

Ah yes, the publications of the thoroughly annoying JW doorknockers who, just a few months ago, had an article objecting to loudmouthed atheists.  Not impressed.  To Me, the Watchtower magazines exemplify a quote from Dr. Who's arch-nemesis, the Master:  "For a lie to be believed, it must be wrapped in the truth."
 
Quote
Did you know that the Bible was not written for religion, denomination, or churches.

Irrelevant.  It's being used by religions, denominations and churches and I see no way to empirically demonstrate what its original intended use might have been.

Quote
I also know that mathematics and logic will prove there is a God

You're free to show your calculations, but I think you've dropped a decimal point or divided by zero somewhere.

Quote
Behind every design is a designer is it not.

Not necessarily.  I see lots of apparent "design" that is simply matter mindlessly aggregating in regular patterns due to the laws of physics and chemistry.
 
Quote
Have you honestly took a good look at this universe and not see the intelligence behind everything.
and come to the conclusion that, their is no Supreme Being.

I've seen quite enough, thank you.  Given the last century's advances in astronomy and physics, I am of the opinion that a Supreme Being should by now be obvious.  The lack of godtrails in the visible universe is quite sufficient reason to assume that no one's there.  (Of course, said Supreme Being can prove Me wrong at any time by actually showing up.)
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Offline Astreja

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 01:11:28 AM »
Who designed god?

I did. Crappy thing it turned out to be.

Indeed.  An analysis of the plans provided by Anfauglir has demonstrated a weakness in the deity.  It's a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port.

Yes.  And you must attack it with great Force.   ;)
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Offline Quesi

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 03:58:44 PM »
So if I dedicate myself to the study of the scriptures, mathematics and logic, will I come to the same conclusions that you have come to? 

Is that an absolute yes? 

And if not, what is it about your understanding of the nature of things makes you so special that you understand the TRUTH which is not evident to the rest of us? 

What can we common folk do to obtain the understanding that you have obtained?  And what should we avoid doing, so we don't go astray? 

Offline Nam

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2013, 02:19:05 AM »
I love Jehovah Witnesses. They go on and on and on about how they are right, and evceryone is wrong. Most fundies give up after awhile but Jovies, they rarely do. I mean, when's the last time wwgha had a Jovie? Wilson?

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Anfauglir

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2013, 05:57:55 AM »
So if I dedicate myself to the study of the scriptures, mathematics and logic, will I come to the same conclusions that you have come to? 

Must have been a breeze for the average goat-herder in 10th century Spain.  Their in-depth familiarity with scripture, maths, and logic would have made it easy-peasy to decide if Christianity or Islam was the correct faith.  I sure hope god (whichever god it really turns out to be) doesn't cut them any slack for not having the right level of education to make the right choices.

That MUST be why believers are so strongly behind giving people a balanced education with a strong emphasis on the sciences - so that (like our JW friend, and the goat-herders in Moorish Spain) - they are fully equipped to come to the correct understanding about god.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 01:54:27 AM »
I mean, when's the last time wwgha had a Jovie? Wilson?

-Nam

Wilson! *sob sob* WILSON! *Sob* Sob*
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline Nam

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Re: God [#2715]
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 03:40:39 AM »
He's over at IGI. Still thinking he knows everything.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.