Author Topic: Male abortion rights?  (Read 2200 times)

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Offline Jag

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2013, 03:14:19 PM »
That's a disturbing article, but the comments were even worse.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2013, 03:56:53 PM »

It seems that based on what was proposed in the OP, for the purposes of this discussion the key IS parenthood responsibilities. If a man does not want the responsibility and conception has already occured, should he be able to decide for himself to NOT have any parental responsibility just as the woman who gets pregnant then decides to abort the pregnancy gets to make that very decision?

On the surface, I want to say "hell yeah, a man should be able to choose!" But as I consider the bigger picture that goes beyond the two people that spawn the child, I'm forced to pump the brakes a bit. The fact of the matter is that the child that comes into the world is very likely to have what I'd call a societal impact. It's generally been up to the parents/families of children to prep the children for society and to take on the responsibility of the child's well being so that the parties that have no affiliation with the "sexing duo" that make a baby won't have to shoulder a responsibility for childcare, etc.

Another consideration is what I'd refer to as the human factor. What if the man initially doesn't want the responsibility, but later has a change of heart and decides to enter the picture somehow? I don't see how this can be effectively legislated against and think of the issues it would present when it inevitably occurs. I doubt that forcing the father to pay back child support would be a suffient recource and in most situations I doubt that that would be any more feasible than expecting everyone and their children who is in this country illegally to go back home and then try to re-enter through the current citizenship process.

So although it's real messed up that the man gets less of a say so (really no say so), that's life. Ain't much equitable able the fetal incubation period where momma gets to experience the pain, discomfort, and hormonal reprocussions of being pregnant while men get to continue to go about our normal lives. So again, that's life and life was never promised to be fair and equitable.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2013, 10:10:03 PM »
I did not read all the posts but I have a thought on the subject.

A man can not have the final word on what happens to the womans body.  But he should have the ability to waive parental responsibility and not pay child support.

Assuming that the couple has never wanted children and he had sex in good faith with her under this agreement.  He should be able to demand an abortion or no parental support.  If she wants to have the child she can make that decision knowing he is not planning on being in the childs life.

His right to waive his parental responsibility only lasts as long as it is legal and possible to have an abortion.   If he has not exercised that right by the end of the first trimester then he is now responsible for child support.  Unless the pregnancy was intentionally hidden from him.

Long and short I believe that if the man does not want children he should have more say in the matter of support.

my issue with it is that its hardly applicable. What do we do with the guy who wasnt told he may be or is the father until its too late?

Offline Chronos

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2014, 12:08:30 PM »
The flip side of this 45:


Statutory rape victim forced to pay child support

Quote

State law says a child younger than 15 cannot consent with an adult under any circumstance, making Olivas a rape victim. But Olivas didn't press charges and says he didn't realize at the time that it was even something to consider.

...

Feit said the basic legal premise of a rape is that the victim can't be held responsible. And with statutory rape, even if the victim participates, he or she can't be held responsible.

"We're not going to hold him responsible for the sex act, so to then turn around and say we're going to hold him responsible for the child that resulted from that act is off-the-charts ridiculous," he said. "It makes no sense."


Perhaps I am misunderstanding his statement in the context of the story/situation. It seems he is saying that we are not going to hold a 14-year-old boy responsible for a sex act but we aren't going to let him get away without paying child support. So, he's screwed either way?
John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Online Nam

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2014, 12:23:05 PM »
Still the victim.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2014, 07:12:52 PM »
"Nuckin futs"
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline epidemic

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2014, 10:03:16 AM »
Woman's choice.  It is her body.


Ok Scenario.   

I am having sex with a woman, both of us have discussed children and both have said we do not want kids and that if she ever were to become pregnant she
would of course have an abortion
.
On day due to unfortunate failure of two forms of birth control one of the little swimmers gets by and she becomes pregnant.

When we discuss it she states that she has had a change heart and she can no longer kill the life growing within her.  Can I say,
"That is fine, but be aware before you make your final decision, I will not support a child that I did not want" 

"keep it or kill it, it is your choice and your body, but be both agree that I am not going to pay a nickle.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2014, 02:01:02 PM »
Ok Scenario.   

I am having sex with a woman, both of us have discussed children and both have said we do not want kids and that if she ever were to become pregnant she
would of course have an abortion
.
On day due to unfortunate failure of two forms of birth control one of the little swimmers gets by and she becomes pregnant.

When we discuss it she states that she has had a change heart and she can no longer kill the life growing within her.  Can I say,
"That is fine, but be aware before you make your final decision, I will not support a child that I did not want" 

"keep it or kill it, it is your choice and your body, but be both agree that I am not going to pay a nickle.

State laws trump contracts between individuals. Get your vessels snipped.


John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline epidemic

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2014, 02:39:08 PM »
Ok Scenario.   

I am having sex with a woman, both of us have discussed children and both have said we do not want kids and that if she ever were to become pregnant she
would of course have an abortion
.
On day due to unfortunate failure of two forms of birth control one of the little swimmers gets by and she becomes pregnant.

When we discuss it she states that she has had a change heart and she can no longer kill the life growing within her.  Can I say,
"That is fine, but be aware before you make your final decision, I will not support a child that I did not want" 

"keep it or kill it, it is your choice and your body, but be both agree that I am not going to pay a nickle.

State laws trump contracts between individuals. Get your vessels snipped.


I understand but that does not change my opinion.   I think the guy should be able to state he does not want to raise the kids this woman wants to have.  As long as he makes his opinion known prior to the pregnancy.   Now my opionion has no legal standing so you are far better off having your little snip proceedure  because the law aint going to back what is fair.  Only what is law.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2014, 09:09:39 PM »
I think the guy should be able to state he does not want to raise the kids this woman wants to have.

Since many Christians believe that sexual orientation is a choice ...

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline atheola

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2014, 01:18:35 AM »
As a practical matter the very act of getting a hardon and inserting it into a female vagina makes you as a man liable, but it's not always that cut and dry. There is much to consider and much speculation.
I'm assuming we're considering what ought be law and what not law.
The easy solution, if it were cut and dry would be to have sex between a man and woman become a contractual thing where each person be required to read and sign a statement of intent.
That doesn't usually happen so the point for all intents and purposes is mute. However, what should law read if a man and woman were required to sign agreements before engaging in any sex act?
Suppose that before sex each were required before any and all sex acts, regardless of act be a signed document?  That would certainly make getting casually laid much more difficult, but suppose lacking such documentation renders all claims of parenthood null and void? What then? Then the only question remaining would be matters of rape or so it would seem.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Male abortion rights?
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2014, 01:13:20 PM »
^That's just what we need, more excuses for lawyers to get involved.

That was a joke, of course.  However, I don't think that's a viable solution.  A better one would be to mandate[1] contraception, both for men and for women.
 1. more accurately, offer financial and/or legal incentives to use