Author Topic: suggestion [#2711]  (Read 718 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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suggestion [#2711]
« on: January 02, 2013, 08:12:05 PM »
Go to Google. Type in “Why does God hate amputees?”. Then click the second option. And I encourage you to read the article in its entirety. After all, if your beliefs are true, surely you should be able to refute any claims made by us poor, delusional Christians.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline wright

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 08:59:36 PM »
Go to Google. Type in “Why does God hate amputees?”. Then click the second option. And I encourage you to read the article in its entirety. After all, if your beliefs are true, surely you should be able to refute any claims made by us poor, delusional Christians.

Okay. Assuming you're serious, let's see what you've got...

(Google search using suggested phrase in its entirety)...

2nd websearch result:http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

Your point?
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline Willie

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 09:58:54 PM »
He most likely meant http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/why_wont_god_heal_amputees.html, which is the 2nd result when you click the "search instead for..." button that comes up on Google. For some reason, Google decided to search for a different phrase first.

This has been discussed here before. See http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=20740.0


Offline wright

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2013, 10:26:25 PM »
Ah, thanks Willie.

OP, I refer you to the archived link Willie provided.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 10:29:21 PM by wright »
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2013, 10:34:25 PM »
Well, the next time someone says "Let us pray" they best add "Except for amputees" so that the issue will be less confusing.

When my son was four he could come up with better excuses when telling me why the cookies were all gone. But he had the advantage of maturity.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Chronos

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2013, 11:13:14 PM »
Go to Google. Type in “Why does God hate amputees?”. Then click the second option. And I encourage you to read the article in its entirety. After all, if your beliefs are true, surely you should be able to refute any claims made by us poor, delusional Christians.

So, your proof that the jesus/god combo healed an amputee is a bible passage that is self-referential? Is this your at least one recording of the healing of an amputee? So you have no evidence of the healing of amputees outside this one occurrence that is written in the book about jesus/god, and you want to call it proof?

This is so intellectually bankrupt that the average 4th grader can see through the ruse.


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Offline Skinz

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2013, 11:36:35 PM »
Anon. friend, you jest, yes? That site is full of reliance on unknowns and rerereinterpretations of the bible. Not only that, but it assumes the bible is a historical document, and not a propoganda pamphlet. Don't get me wrong, it's a great joke, I laughed! It's just your delivery sounded so serious I thought you might be sincere.

I've only been reading this forum for a few weeks now, but most, if not all, of the points brought up in the four large and unpleasingly formatted pages I read have been smashed to hell right here man.

From the page you suggested:

"The first wrong assumption is that a large number of Christians are able to dictate to God what He should do. Healings do not necessarily require large numbers of people praying, since most recorded healings have involved just one prayer. The second wrong assumption is that God heals all who are prayed for"

From the Bible:

"Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
(Matthew 7:7-11 RSV-CE)

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
(Mark 11:24 RSV-CE)

Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.
(John 14:13-14 RSV-CE)

If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you.
(John 15:7 RSV-CE)

Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and we receive from him whatever we ask, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
(1 John 3:21-22 RSV-CE)

And this is the confidence which we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him.
(1 John 5:14-15 RSV-CE)


So are they making shit up? Seems like it to me, man.


EDIT: Furthermore;

God does not heal everybody of every infirmity in this life. I began working for my current boss in 1983 at the UCLA Inflammatory Bowel Disease Center. Within two years, I developed Crohn's Disease, the most severe form of Inflammatory Bowel Disease, which has no cure. I found myself unable to do things using my own abilities and strength. After two months of being bedridden in severe pain, I cried out to God, even though I was a One who believes in the existence of an impersonal God.deist at the time (I had gone from an agnostic atheist to a deist in college). Within three months all symptoms of Crohn's disease had disappeared. That was over 25 years ago, and no symptoms of the disease have ever reappeared. However, thousands of people have gone through our Inflammatory Bowel Disease clinics and not been cured. I am sure that most of those people have prayed to God, but are still suffering. For some reason, God chose to heal me, so that I would know that He was personally involved in the lives of people.

He was healed by God so he could spread the word. Farrrk. A delusional egotist is at best someone to be ignored, at worst, Hitler.

===EDIT #2===
EDIT REASON: Ignorance
Pianodwarf, maaaaate, I didn't know how the mailbag system worked and I thought you'd been possesed by a demon you don't believe in. Needless to say, I swung into action... It's just a shame I had no idea what I was doing :)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 12:49:12 AM by Skinz »
"Science changes it's views based on what's observed; Religion ignores the facts so that faith may be preserved."

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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 07:11:13 AM »
===EDIT #2===
EDIT REASON: Ignorance
Pianodwarf, maaaaate, I didn't know how the mailbag system worked and I thought you'd been possesed by a demon you don't believe in. Needless to say, I swung into action... It's just a shame I had no idea what I was doing :)

That's OK.  Your objections apply just as much to the letter writer as they would if I had uttered them -- which is, of course, one of the hallmarks of a well-worded argument.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 07:45:58 AM »
God does not heal everybody of every infirmity in this life. I began working for my current boss in 1983 at the UCLA Inflammatory Bowel Disease Center. Within two years, I developed Crohn's Disease, the most severe form of Inflammatory Bowel Disease, which has no cure. I found myself unable to do things using my own abilities and strength. After two months of being bedridden in severe pain, I cried out to God, even though I was a One who believes in the existence of an impersonal God.deist at the time (I had gone from an agnostic atheist to a deist in college). Within three months all symptoms of Crohn's disease had disappeared. That was over 25 years ago, and no symptoms of the disease have ever reappeared. However, thousands of people have gone through our Inflammatory Bowel Disease clinics and not been cured. I am sure that most of those people have prayed to God, but are still suffering. For some reason, God chose to heal me, so that I would know that He was personally involved in the lives of people.

Guess what?  I've got Crohn's disease.  And if you worked in the field for years (as you claim), you'll know that it is a condition that will flare up or go into remission by itself.  And - funny thing! - pretty much the same thing as happened to you, also happened to me - without prayer, imagine that!!

Final point: "I cried out to God (and) within three months all symptoms ... had disappeared" WOWZA!  That's some fast work on god's part there!  CLEARLY no way it could have gone into remission by itself.

You are either intentionally lying for your god, or you are not intellectually honest or brave enough to countenance any other possibilities.  And whichever of those holds true, there is no reason for me to trust anything you may have to say.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Hatter23

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 09:51:33 AM »
Dear OP, I'm going to copy and paste what I thought of this the first time

Let us examine one section:

Quote
The common objection to his argument is that the Bible just made up this miracles, like all others it reports. Of course, this objection is offered without any proof of being correct. It is just assumed that the disciples would do anything, including lying, in order to propagate their lies. The funny thing about the assertion is that it directly contradicts the teachings of Jesus, which was fiercely against the hypocrites. So, the disciples are being accused of doing exactly what they preached against. Again, no evidence is offered that they ever did any such kind of lying. What they skeptics won't tell you is that there is actually evidence that directly contradicts this assertion. The problem with the idea that the disciples made up the miracles of Jesus is that the hostile witnesses of the time (the Jewish religious leadership) never denied that those miracles took place, but attributed them to the work of Satan.1 In his rebuttal to Jewish Celsus, Origen reported Celsus as saying Jesus had obtained His miraculous gifts while in Egypt (obviously by the power of sorcery).2 If the miracles of Jesus had been made-up, the Jews would have denied they ever happened, rather than attribute them to the work of the devil. It was, in fact, the miracles of Jesus that convinced a large number of people that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah. So, the extra-biblical evidence actually supports the Bible's claim that Jesus performed numerous miracles, including the healing of an amputee.

The begging the question aspect here is so thick I wonder if this person is kidding or just stupid.  OK there is a document that claims fantastical things, things that are not operating in the way we observe today....do we automatically accept it as true? Even these tales of "hostile witnesses" any cooberation. Why do you apply one standard of proof to the Bible(very, very, very low), but not the same standard of proof to every other tale of magical happenings that was written?

Please answer me that Mr. Apologist; Why do you engage in special pleading leading to begging the question?

We here do not...we treat all tales of magical happenings with the same brush, healthy skepticism.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 10:02:27 AM »
I'm not replying to this OP, for two reasons.

First, most lazy people just copy and paste links and say, "Here, read this."  You, however, can't even be bothered to do that much.  You want me to do my own search for what you've found, then analyze it and post a reply to it.  Nothing doing.  You want a response from me, you tell me what you want me to respond to.

Second, "the second hit in a Google search" is not always the same for everyone.  Google tailors search results based on your own search history.  If a geologist with a long Google search history does a search for "plates", his first hits are probably going to be references to plate tectonics.  If Martha Stewart were to do a search on "plates", on the other hand, she'd probably get hits pertaining to dining and homemaking.  And someone working for the Bureau of Engraving and Printing will probably get information about printing presses first.  That being the case, whatever the second link was when you did your search may not be the same second hit that I get, and the same is true for everybody else.  So there's no guarantee that I would be responding to the page that you're referring to.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Online Graybeard

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Re: suggestion [#2711]
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 12:02:28 PM »
I posted my point, which is:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/why_wont_god_heal_amputees.htmlYour point?

OK, I responded as requested to the lecture at the link:

Luke 22:50-51

I am not sure why you suggest that a new ear grew. The writer of Luke does not suggest this. There is nothing in scripture to say that a new ear grew or the old one regrew, merely that the wound was healed - we might conclude that the blood stopped flowing and maybe a scab formed. Anything more than that would be to attribute another miracle over and above the first one, and I don't think that that would be respectful, do you?

The problem with your implication of a further miracle is that simple Christians will present your example to atheists, who will then laugh at them and tell them that Christians do not know what the Bible says... and the atheists will be correct.

YIC

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Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”