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Offline pianodwarf

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well done [#2710]
« on: December 30, 2012, 12:50:31 PM »
I am a newly "converted" atheist (after years of thinking i was an agnostic) and just want to say that i stumbled upon your site and think its great.   Well laid out and clearly defined arguments.  I plan on passing along this link to several friends (some who are not atheists).

Thanks!

[name removed]
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Offline Traveler

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2012, 12:57:41 PM »
Please feel free to join the forum ... lots of great discussions and interesting people.  :)
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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2012, 01:50:32 PM »
Join us today! It's Sunday, and right now you've got nothing else to do!  :)


Not all of us are interesting, however. Me, for instance. Other than my self-deprecating semi-humor, I've nothing to offer. Which is a good thing. The others? They're pretty interesting.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 01:55:08 PM »
Welcome, was it a sudden thing, or more gradual?
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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 07:13:27 PM »
Congratulations on being unplugged from the Matrix! Sorry you don't get any fancy black leather suit here. But you will get great conversation about all things related to atheism and God. Hopefully you will join the forum and continue the enlightenment process. It would be nice to know, as Graybeard asked, more details as to the nature of your deprogramming.
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Offline wright

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 11:48:24 PM »
Indeed, glad to hear of your new self-knowledge. Join the forum, if you will.
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Offline macphisto

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 10:25:03 AM »
Hello, and thanks for the warm welcome.

As for my "deprogramming", here is a brief history:  I was raised Catholic, but realized around age 19 or 20 that all religions were basically nonsense, mainly based on the fact that there were so many and religious affiliation was mainly a result of birth location and parents influence.   However, for the next 15 years, i basically held the agnostic position that we can't know whether God exists and even went back and forth a few times from "the design of the world indicates a probable God" (scientific ignorance on my part) to "we will never know".  Also during this time i was under the misperception of "atheist" as someone who is certain that God doesnt exist, which i thought was a ridiculous notion.   It wasnt until recently that i was exposed to some of the modern atheist writings/videos (Hitchens, Harris, Julia Sweeney) that i came to realize that:

- Atheists position is that there is no convincing evidence of God
- Logically you cannot prove a negative (i.e proving that something does NOT exist)

For me, these two points are hugely misunderstood by the non-atheist community.  I think atheists need to market this message more effectively and i hope to do so myself going forward.

Thanks again and look forward to following the forum.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 10:32:50 AM »
Welcome to the forum, macphisto.
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Offline Garja

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2013, 02:06:54 AM »
Welcome Mac.  If I may be so casual.

Aye, very few of us would claim to be 'certain' there is no god.  Some doubt stronger than others, but VERY few of us would claim 100% certainty.
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Offline Bagheera

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2013, 04:44:29 AM »
Quote from: Garja on January 01, 2013, 02:06:54 AM
Welcome Mac.  If I may be so casual.

Aye, very few of us would claim to be 'certain' there is no god.  Some doubt stronger than others, but VERY few of us would claim 100% certainty.

Very true.

I am one who places Yahweh somewhere on the continuum slightly above the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus but below Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. All are on the far end of the 'believability' scale below ancient extraterrestrial visitors (who for my money are more likely than gods and --if they existed-- may be the origins of our gods fixation).

The point being, even though they're on the low end of the Believability scale, they're still on it, meaning I accept the possibility but assign a probability that nears, but not quite reaches, zero.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 04:46:51 AM by Bagheera »
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Offline Chronos

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2013, 05:39:17 AM »
Quote from: macphisto on December 31, 2012, 10:25:03 AM
Also during this time i was under the misperception of "atheist" as someone who is certain that God doesnt exist, which i thought was a ridiculous notion.   It wasnt until recently that i was exposed to some of the modern atheist writings/videos (Hitchens, Harris, Julia Sweeney) that i came to realize that:

- Atheists position is that there is no convincing evidence of God
- Logically you cannot prove a negative (i.e proving that something does NOT exist)

For me, these two points are hugely misunderstood by the non-atheist community.  I think atheists need to market this message more effectively and i hope to do so myself going forward.

Religion, like any other product, requires good skills for marketing and sales. Marketing requires highlighting the best elements of your own products and the worst of those of your competitors. Sometimes in an effort to outdo the competition, the effort to market and sell your products causes absurd outcomes, one of which is a declaration by some atheists that there is no god. It is poor marketing on the part of atheists who declare that there is no god that they really aren't saying that there is no god, but it's certainly hard to counter the deluge of organized competitors who redefine your products or who you are.

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: well done [#2710]
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 06:14:16 AM »
Quote from: Chronos on January 02, 2013, 05:39:17 AM
Quote from: macphisto on December 31, 2012, 10:25:03 AM
Also during this time i was under the misperception of "atheist" as someone who is certain that God doesnt exist, which i thought was a ridiculous notion.   It wasnt until recently that i was exposed to some of the modern atheist writings/videos (Hitchens, Harris, Julia Sweeney) that i came to realize that:

- Atheists position is that there is no convincing evidence of God
- Logically you cannot prove a negative (i.e proving that something does NOT exist)

For me, these two points are hugely misunderstood by the non-atheist community.  I think atheists need to market this message more effectively and i hope to do so myself going forward.

Religion, like any other product, requires good skills for marketing and sales. Marketing requires highlighting the best elements of your own products and the worst of those of your competitors. Sometimes in an effort to outdo the competition, the effort to market and sell your products causes absurd outcomes, one of which is a declaration by some atheists that there is no god. It is poor marketing on the part of atheists who declare that there is no god that they really aren't saying that there is no god, but it's certainly hard to counter the deluge of organized competitors who redefine your products or who you are.

Im not sure the notion of there not being a god is absurd at all. Sure, as the OP stated, my position is that I have not seen any evidence that suggests a god, and obviously we cant prove that there isnt... BUT does that make it absurd to declare that there is no god? Is it absurd for me to declare there is no Santa Clause? absurd to declare there is no blinyards (a word I made up I hope)? The only concepts we have of this god or gods are the imaginary ones weve been presented with, I dont feel it is absurd to declare THOSE dont exist. And with no other reason to think or believe a like thing exists I'd say we are well within our rights to reasonably say god doesnt exist.
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