Author Topic: There are no contradictions in the Bible!  (Read 838 times)

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Online jaimehlers

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2014, 12:53:14 PM »
Stephen, let me ask you a question.  Why does the Bible have to be inerrant to be useful?  This is from your own statement that if there was even one contradiction within its pages it would be of less use than a raindrop hitting the sidewalk.  Yet there are plenty of contradictions within its pages, even besides the ones I mentioned

I'll grant that if you go to direct translations of the original Hebrew texts, some of those contradictions are resolved.  For example, the contradiction between Genesis 1:20-21 (describing all living creatures being made from water) and Genesis 2:19 (describing them being made from the ground) disappears if you refer to the original.

However, the contradiction between Genesis 1:25-26 and Genesis 2:18-19 (oh, and 5-7) does not vanish.

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0101.htm
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25 And God made the beast of the earth after its kind, and the cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
According to this, God made the beasts of the earth before making humans.  Yet, if you then go to Genesis 2...

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0102.htm
Quote
5 No shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up; for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground;
6 but there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
...
18 And the LORD God said: 'It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him.'
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto the man to see what he would call them; and whatsoever the man would call every living creature, that was to be the name thereof.
This actually reverses the order from Genesis 1, which had animals made before humans.  Genesis 2 also describes birds being made after humans, when according to Genesis 1, they were made on the fifth day (verses 20-22).  And on top of that, according to Genesis 2, plants had not yet been made, but according to Genesis 1, plants were made on the third day (verses 11-12).

In short, you have two completely different creation stories here, which directly contradict each other.

Offline StephenTheAlchemist

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2014, 01:05:57 PM »
I am so glad that you asked this question. Even more so, I'm glad that you asked it with maturity and respect. That's rare here. Before I dive head first into my argument I would like to ask you a question first. What is your definition of truth?

Offline screwtape

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2014, 01:16:01 PM »
before we go charging off into the absurd jungles of "truth", I just wanted to point out, Heli is a dude's name.  At least, when speaking of hebrews.  When speaking of the Norse, then yes, damsel's name.

http://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/view.cgi?n=2691
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The son of Matthat and father of Joseph, Jesus' earthly father... The name probably represents a Greek form of the Hebrew Eli 

http://www.biblical-baby-names.com/meaning-of-heli.html
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The Biblical baby name Heli is the Greek version of the Hebrew name Eli...

For the record, truth is "that which corresponds to reality".
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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline StephenTheAlchemist

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2014, 01:28:22 PM »
How many times are people going to keep saying this. I was corrected first by G-Man and did not continue that one argument. But since all of you have done so well to inform me of my mistake on the first defense I made, please correct me then on the other two since you all ignored them. I am aware now and have been aware and did the proper research. It was my first post. Now like I said, all of the repetition is not necessary so I expect that you can now move on.

Offline StephenTheAlchemist

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2014, 01:30:24 PM »
For the record, truth is "that which corresponds to reality".

I was asking him/her individually.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2014, 04:27:35 PM »
Truth is the concept that allows us to determine how close a worldview or viewpoint comes to the actual reality of something.

Offline StephenTheAlchemist

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2014, 04:46:21 PM »
Truth is the concept that allows us to determine how close a worldview or viewpoint comes to the actual reality of something.

Can there be more than one truth?

Online jaimehlers

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2014, 05:02:58 PM »
The concept of truth has no meaning once you get outside of worldviews and viewpoints.  It has meaning to humans because we construct worldviews for ourselves, which never exactly correspond with reality.  For example, humans can only detect a tiny slice of the EM spectrum; the rest of it might as well not exist as far as most of us are concerned.  Even though we've made devices which allow us to at least detect the rest of the spectrum, it still has to be interpreted through our limited perception.

Offline StephenTheAlchemist

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2014, 05:09:32 PM »
You defined truth. Can there be more than one truth? Can truth contradict?

Online jaimehlers

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2014, 05:20:46 PM »
A better question would be if there can be more than one reality or if reality can contradict itself, because truth is a concept that is only useful for worldviews and the like, and my definition of truth refers to how close it comes to the actual reality.

As far as I know, there cannot be more than one reality, and reality cannot contradict itself.  If it seems to, then one of the contradictory things must be false in some way.  So if you have a situation like the one I described earlier, where you have two stories which contradict each other, then at least one of them cannot be correct.

Offline MadBunny

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2014, 08:40:52 PM »



Can you please cite your resources/evidence from Scripture as far what you are referring to. And I am aware of the Bible process and what goes on with translations and the decision making process.

Not sure what you're asking for here considering that I quoted you.  Are you asking me to cite the sources that YOU used?

I merely pointed out that you're comparing apples and oranges.

The king james bible...
http://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/1601-1700/story-behind-king-james-bible-11630052.html

and the Torah
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/The_Written_Law.html



Let me ask you this question: is the King James Bible[1]  Accurate?  Or is it merely a 'series of suggestions' that hint at a larger truth?  It is a horribly translated bunch of hooey and meaningless without the original greek text?
To be clear, I'm pointing out that the bible[2] has lots and lots of outright contradictions in it.  It's my opinion that people who try to deny this are deluding themselves, and people who try to rationalize them away are trying to delude others.

Every time I've seen this argument 'the bible has no contradictions' it gets shot down pretty easily since the bible[3] does in fact have lots of contradictions in it.  If it's your position that the NIV or the KJV or even the Jeffersonian bible has no contradictions you're in for a rather substantial failure.  If it's your position that it doesn't matter if it's accurate, or has contradictions then what's the point?
 1. https://www.biblegateway.com/
 2. https://www.biblegateway.com/
 3. https://www.biblegateway.com/
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2014, 01:04:03 PM »
How many times are people going to keep saying this. I was corrected first by G-Man and did not continue that one argument. But since all of you have done so well to inform me of my mistake on the first defense I made, please correct me then on the other two since you all ignored them. I am aware now and have been aware and did the proper research. It was my first post. Now like I said, all of the repetition is not necessary so I expect that you can now move on.

StephenTheAlchemist -

I have no idea what mistake you're referring to, or what 'other two' defenses your referring to as well.  Perhaps it's being repeated to you because you actually haven't acknowledged it?

I honestly don't know what you're referring to with this post.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2014, 01:14:40 PM »
Aww, seems I've been left hanging.  I was so hoping that Stephen could explain why two contradictory things could both be true.  In the form of a question, of course.

Offline StephenTheAlchemist

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2014, 12:58:14 PM »
Aww, seems I've been left hanging.  I was so hoping that Stephen could explain why two contradictory things could both be true.  In the form of a question, of course.

I apologize I completely forgot about this. Over the past few days I've had a change in my theology so there is no longer any point for me to argue this.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2014, 01:00:44 PM »
Alright, fair enough.

I hope my responses were helpful.

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2014, 10:39:30 PM »
I apologize I completely forgot about this. Over the past few days I've had a change in my theology so there is no longer any point for me to argue this.

No problem, some people on here changed the nature of their god several times before they figured out they were making it up themselves.
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Offline riley2112

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Re: There are no contradictions in the Bible!
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2014, 02:02:48 PM »
I apologize I completely forgot about this. Over the past few days I've had a change in my theology so there is no longer any point for me to argue this.

No problem, some people on here changed the nature of their god several times before they figured out they were making it up themselves.
I agree with that statement more than you know.
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