I am here at this forum to get an atheist point of view. I am fully prepared for any arguments.
One of the biggest problems I have are the attacks I recieve from the religous side. My take on a creator is not really accepted by most christians so I thought who better to ask than atheist. Hopefully I will be able to strengthen my understanding and open myself to new ideas.
I won't get into how I know God exist but for me it is not an issue of whether I believe it or not, it simply is true for me. I did not come about this belief through religous means. In general God is a being of perfect love and all things are done in order to achieve the enlightenment of his (God is neither male nor female just can't call him it) creations. I have no issues with evolution, astronomy or any other of the sciences as I am a fan of all. What matters to what I call the "Real God" is based in the emotional part of our existence and not in the physical. I fully accept that there is no physical proof of God, as a matter of fact, the lack of physical proof is of absolute importance to the understanding of what is known as God's will. If there is physical proof of God then there would be no choice. Free will is the most important part of our existence, because what I understand is that we must choose to love correctly in order for us to have the salvation that such beliefs are supposed to bring about.
Please ask any questions or make any comments.
After reading through most of this thread, I felt the need to point out a few inconsistencies and ask a few questions.
come to your belief through religious means, no matter how much you have since amended it. See your later statements about the Bible, dogma, and omniscience vs. free will. These are not the sources of a self-realized deity. Religion gave you the ideas, which you then tailored to your personal preference.
As has already been mentioned, even if you have no issues with most sciences, you apparently have a problem with or are fairly ignorant about neuroscience.
If god is a being of perfect love, and god created everything, then where did evil (or lack of love, if you prefer) come from?
What a fantastic response this is what I hoped for. Ambassador pony your question of could I be wrong. I know this might sound strange but somewhat regrettably No. I am absolutely certain of the existence of God or Creator may be a better name. Actually I may have ended up being an atheist except for the fact that I know He exists. I expect many at this forum to disagree with me, but most of the questions that atheists have are the same ones I have. I'm not really complaining, my life with what I call the creator has been wonderful, my problems are in understanding and trying to grasp the connection of the spiritual and the physical. I know that many in this forum may feel that the certainty of my conviction is part of the delusion but for me that would be un-true. This is a belief that I have fought against many times and even though I have some issues with some of the dogma, there is no way for me to deny what I am certain of. That is why I am here. I am hoping that with a wide variety of opinions it may help me clear up some of my own issues. Knowing that God exist, has actually made it more difficult for me not easier. Thanks for the responses so far and please keep them coming.
Your big mistake here is trying to differentiate between physical and "spiritual", whatever that is supposed to mean. See my above comment about neuroscience.
The connection between physical and spiritual is that they are the same thing. Whatever feelings or experiences you consider spiritual are nothing more than thoughts and emotions generated by your physical brain and endocrine system. They may not be typical, and you may think that there's something special about them, but you need to realize that there's nothing metaphysical about them.
Sorry it was meant specifically about God. If physical proof of God exist then you would have to deny reality in order to be an atheist. If God's face appeared in the sky and it wasn't some kind of special effects it would be impossible to deny God's existence. Since I believe very strongly that freedom of choice is our greatest gift from our creator this would be in direct violation of that choice. I believe that for us to love as the Creator wants us to love it must be of our own free will. I'm not a biblical scholar but one of my favorite parts of the new testament is the Beattitudes (if I'm spelling that correctly). Many of the passages says (paraphrasing here) You can obey the 10 commandments but without love it means nothing.
On the second part of your post I'm afraid I do believe that God is omniscient but I spent quite a few years discussing that one with a friend of mine before he understood my point about fate. I would like that one as it's own post to be honest with you. It is not as simple as we would percieve it. My friend for most of our discussions always looked at fate as though it were in likeness to a game of chess. That kind of fate or destiny would probably even be unworkable for the Creator because it would require constant updating.
Fate, eh? Which one? Clotho? Atropos? Decima? Skuld? I think you'll find that most people here view the generic idea of "fate" in the same light as the mythical figures representing said idea. Unless, of course, you're talking about naturalistic determinism. Then you'll likely find quite a few supporters, though it pretty much nullifies your ideas on free will. And yes, you should probably start another thread on that topic. I'd love to see another attempt at trying to squeeze the ideas of free will and omniscience into the same reality.
If you put any stock in the Bible, god did
appear in the sky (amongst other places) to address people. Was their free will negated then? And if god appeared today, how
exactly would that negate free will? Are you saying that at the mere sight of this being, people would be unable to choose whether or not to obey it? Or pass it off as an illusion, or advanced alien?
One last thing. You need to re-examine your premise of love being the ultimate goal. While love can bring great joy, it can also be the cause of great harm and sadness. I believe the word you're looking for is empathy.