Author Topic: Burkas Needed in Iowa  (Read 1127 times)

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Offline shnozzola

Burkas Needed in Iowa
« on: December 24, 2012, 07:38:51 AM »
Quote
(CNN) -- Can a boss fire an employee he finds attractive because he and his wife, fairly or not, see her as a threat to their marriage?
Yes, the Iowa Supreme Court ruled Friday.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/21/justice/iowa-irresistible-worker/index.html
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Offline Nick

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2012, 07:59:04 AM »
Ha, we are thinking alike.   :D

We are becoming more and more like the Taliban and can't even see it.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2012, 08:01:11 AM »
I'd say I'm surprised the court ruled against the poor woman, but I'd be lying.
It's things like this that color foreigners' views of the USA.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2012, 08:03:18 AM »
Groucho Marks glasses and mustache should take care of it.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2012, 08:24:17 AM »
It's really sad that things like this happen in America. Women can be fired for being hot, can be told what to do with their vaginas, legislation that would make equal pay for women overturned by rich white men, legislation that would protect women serving overseas from rape defeated by rich white men, but when a (EEEEKKK!)  liberal points out that there is a war on women, the right does a complete about face and says "I don't know what you are talking about, why are you making such a big issue out of this anyways? Why don't YOU focus on the REAL issues?" At which point I say that restricting or taking away people's freedom on the basis on their gender IS a real issue,and also point out that it would not be necessary for decent, thinking people to mobilize against this nonsense if the religious right did not attempt to impose its 2nd century worldview on the rest of us in the first place!

It's funny how the religious right insists that our moral foundation and our rights come from God, yet the United States Constitution and Bill of rights is conspicuously absent from the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention anything about free speech and the ability to criticize authority. Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about the will of the people. And, sorry to disappoint brilliant religious right wing intellectuals like Ted Nugent and Sarah Palin, but Jesus did not have an AR-15.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Traveler

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2012, 10:39:25 AM »
I'm disgusted, disheartened and dismayed.

I was a youngster in the hippy era, and thought our country would be liberated and peaceful by now. Someone back then told me that the pendulum swings, but I, naively, didn't believe it could happen.

I was daydreaming last night about a ridiculous movie where a woman is granted twelve wishes. She, of course, squanders most of them on absurdities. I found myself thinking of all the things I'd want to use them for, but uncertain how to word them so that the fairy godmother wouldn't shaft us all. I honestly don't know how we can get out of the mess we've gotten ourselves into. I know that in some ways we've come a long way, but in other ways I feel like we're all living in a bubble of idiocy.

I basically decided that I'd start my wishes by making people who were hateful or stupid or prejudiced live as whatever they were hateful of for at least a month or more. Racists become black. Sexists become women. Homophobes become gay. Let them "walk a mile in their shoes."

At any rate, the dentist and his wife ought to be ashamed of themselves.
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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2012, 10:53:10 AM »
Did anyone else notice that the dentists original decision to fire her was done in the presence of a pastor? In other words, someone with religious credentials APPROVED of this travesty of moral justice. Hitch may be dead, but religion is still poisoning everything.

The fact that it was done in the presence of a pastor implies that the dentist was specifically looking for the pastor's approval. What if the pastor had actually made a moral stand, and told the rich dentist "No, what you are about to do is morally wrong"? Would the dentist have been swayed by this opinion? Possibly. We'll never know. But the fact is that given the opportunity to take a moral action, the person with religious credentials, the one who makes a living telling people how he thinks they should live a moral life, failed to do what what any thinking person would have considered the right thing to do.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2012, 11:00:22 AM »
I basically decided that I'd start my wishes by making people who were hateful or stupid or prejudiced live as whatever they were hateful of for at least a month or more. Racists become black. Sexists become women. Homophobes become gay. Let them "walk a mile in their shoes."


If that happened, I'd have to spend a month being rich! That would be terrible!


Good post, I just couldn't resist. And don't worry, if that happened I'd give all my money away and be broke in a week.
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 01:56:28 PM »
Women always have and always will be treated different.  Unfortunately looks will also always be a factor.  When I was on my way to Iraq I crossed paths with a female who was returning from my destination.  She warned me that "they" (meaning the US soldiers) treated women like shit.  I found quite the opposite.  The major difference between us was she was a plain reserve 2d lieutenant and I was a tall, blond Sgt with prior Active service.  When I asked the guys why they were so hard on the Lt & not me the response was "well, you were in the real Army."  For the most part I was one of the guys but there was always this protective vibe.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 02:37:41 PM »
2 things, Lori
    - Do you agree with the Iowa Supreme Court (because women always have and always will be treated differently)?

   - And secondly, I, being male, knowing how we are primarily driven, still find the idea demeaning that we are unable to follow our marriage vows properly due to "irresistible attraction" - no wonder we cannot get past religion, we can't get past the idea of penile decisions, and the seven men representing the Iowa department of justice agree with it.   :o 
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 08:06:04 PM »
1) The above mentioned case looks to me like that dentist and his hygenist were both inappropriate with the unprofessional attire and the texting.  If he had no problem with her job performance then she seems to have grounds for a sexual harrassment complaint in regards to her dismissal.  Of course I am only going by this article and not whatever was presented to the court.

2) Every man is different.  Many men are perfectly capable of controlling themselves.  I don't think it has anything to do with religious preference or lack of it, it is a matter of character.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 08:42:15 PM »
1) The above mentioned case looks to me like that dentist and his hygenist were both inappropriate with the unprofessional attire and the texting.  If he had no problem with her job performance then she seems to have grounds for a sexual harrassment complaint in regards to her dismissal.  Of course I am only going by this article and not whatever was presented to the court.
From what I understand, she had not done anything inappropriate as far as the texting goes, and it isn't clear that she was deliberately wearing provocative clothing. Even if she HAD in fact been doing both of those things, firing an employee because you can't control your sexual urges is pretty blatantly discriminatory, especially since the employee isn't the one with the problem. It's also kind of creepy and frightening that this guy has that much difficulty with impulse control, and that this is allowed to happen.

Quote
2) Every man is different.  Many men are perfectly capable of controlling themselves.  I don't think it has anything to do with religious preference or lack of it, it is a matter of character.
Oh I don't know about that, considering that the guy's pastor was present when he fired this woman, and there is no indication that the pastor protested this despicable behavior. Which really isn't surprising, since religious leaders have been giving people official godly sanction to gleefully commit despicable behavior for thousands of years; indeed, at times this seems to be their sole purpose. But I suppose they can't be blamed. They are just following God's example. But I really want to know specifically what role the pastor had, if they supported this decision, protested it, or what, but is seems implied that the pastor approved. After all, religion has a rich tradition of treating women as inferior human beings.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 09:24:42 PM »
The decision does not seem too bad to me. Click the link and listen to her evasive answers to whether she was having a relationship with the dentist.

Quote
Such firings may not be fair, but they do not constitute unlawful discrimination under the Iowa Civil Rights Act, the decision read, siding with a lower court.
An attorney for Melissa Nelson, the fired employee, said the decision was wrong....

During the last six months of Nelson's employment, Nelson and Knight, both married with children, started sending text messages to each other outside of work. Neither objected to the texting.

Knight's wife, who was employed at the same dental office, found out about those messages in late 2009 and demanded he fire Nelson.

The problem was not then that she was "too attractive" the problem was that she was disrupting a family business and a family. The wife then stepped in to dismiss the other woman.

I have a lot of sympathy with the wife - a divorce would have been unpleasant and expensive and, one assumes that had there been a divorce that the ex-wife would have lost her job either directly or indirectly.

The woman is not employed to flirt - she is employed to be professional.

This is not a case of some huge company sacking the secretary because her supervisor thinks she's hot but the supervisor's wife, who works somewhere else, thinks she's a threat to the marriage. This was a threat to a small family business.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2012, 10:42:27 PM »
Women can be fired for being hot,

hot women are a huge liability in the workplace.  they are a distraction for the men and sexual harassment suit waiting to happen.  In some cases they can be safety hazards.  There was once a super-hot woman at my company.  She worked in marketing.  When she had to go out to the shop floor, where the marketing brochures were stored, half the men in the shop followed here over to the storage area.  Literally.  They stopped working, followed here there, and stood there staring, like idiots.

We had to ask her to stop going into the shop for safety reasons.  We use power equipment and it was just a matter of time before someone chopped off a finger (or worse) because they were paying too much attention to her ass and not enough to their work. 

I would never, ever in a zillion years hire a hot woman in my company, no matter how competent she was.  I would hire only post menopausal women.  that way I would avoid the harassment stuff and the maternity leave bullshit.

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2012, 10:59:55 PM »


It is the people who have to control every aspect of their surrounding to be able to function that make life hard for the rest of us. Not everything in life is automatically convenient. Until each of us can accept the lack of perfection in life, and accept the presence of the occasional distraction, our ability to manufacture misery will continue to outstrip our ability to be content.

Women are humans, no matter what they look like. Just as we all are, no matter what we look like. Learn to adjust.



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Offline Iamrational

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2012, 09:58:57 AM »
+1 to Graybeard for getting it right in this case.

This is a case of a woman scorned. I am reaching now, but I feel like it was an ultimatum by the dentist's wife.

Notice in the interview she states she wore scrubs(most unattractive uniform ever). Then it says they were texting and who knows what else. Sure she is married. Sure he is too. 10 years together. It happens to a lot of co-workers. Now in this case we don't know what the wife read. It could have been harmless but let's be realistic here. They work together ALL DAY. Whatever was said in those messages probably wasn't hey you left the suction machine on, again. She read some nasty stuff and probably said me or her. Right? That is most likely why the court said outta here with that jazz.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2013, 04:29:33 PM »
Hey, I happen to look plenty hot in scrubs...   :laugh:
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Bagheera

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2013, 05:02:35 PM »
In a nutshell, if she was working in an "at will" state, she can be fired for any reason that isn't specifically prohibited under federal/state law. Fired for being female, or for rejecting his advances, would be prohibited; fired for being 'hot' technically wouldn't be. IMHO.

Offline Lazarus

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2013, 06:04:51 AM »
I don't see the problem here. The woman is not at fault, but it's a private business. Either she goes, or he goes, and it's his company so he's sure not going to fire himself.

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2013, 02:19:52 PM »
I'm disgusted, disheartened and dismayed.

I was a youngster in the hippy era, and thought our country would be liberated and peaceful by now. Someone back then told me that the pendulum swings, but I, naively, didn't believe it could happen.

I was daydreaming last night about a ridiculous movie where a woman is granted twelve wishes. She, of course, squanders most of them on absurdities. I found myself thinking of all the things I'd want to use them for, but uncertain how to word them so that the fairy godmother wouldn't shaft us all. I honestly don't know how we can get out of the mess we've gotten ourselves into. I know that in some ways we've come a long way, but in other ways I feel like we're all living in a bubble of idiocy.

I basically decided that I'd start my wishes by making people who were hateful or stupid or prejudiced live as whatever they were hateful of for at least a month or more. Racists become black. Sexists become women. Homophobes become gay. Let them "walk a mile in their shoes."

At any rate, the dentist and his wife ought to be ashamed of themselves.

What I bolded in your comment: are you saying that only men can be sexist? It seems it is. I know women in my life who have been sexist toward not only men but other women. Yes, most times it's the male of the species who seems to be sexist but not always.

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Burkas Needed in Iowa
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2013, 04:03:47 AM »
Women are indeed often sexist toward each other.  All you need to do is flip through the channels in the daytime and you'll see a couple of Walmartians pulling out each other's hair over some toothless scumbag.  And even women with an alphabet soup of degrees view each other as predators when it comes to men.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.