Author Topic: who exactly wrote the gospels  (Read 2246 times)

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Offline changeling

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2012, 01:19:57 PM »
If you have a decent bible, maybe a full copy of the NIV, read the introduction to the gospels. It will tell you that there is no confirmation on who wrote these gospels. The copyright page will also show you that there is no accredited authors to the whole book.

That's the only truth in the bible I know of.  ;)

As far as Jesus (if he existed) being literate, chances of that are almost zero. Although he may have quoted from the Talmud, over 98 percent of the local population were in fact illiterate. It would cause quite an emotion among people when the poor son of a carpenter born in a stable could actually read. Reading was for the wealthy. There is no evidence or any passages mentioned that Joseph or Mary could read either.

According to Luke, Jesus could read.

After reading from the book
of the prophet Esaias Jesus closed the book.
 Luk 4:20 " And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him."
The level of dumb they have to sell, is only made remotely possible by the level of flocking their sheep are willing to do in the name of rewards for no thought. quote: Kin Hell

"Faith is the enemy of evidence, for when we know the truth, no faith is required." Graybeard

Offline SimpleCaveman

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2013, 07:58:33 PM »
Hello Nick,

Happy New Year! I hope thise year will be a good one for you.

Sorry I’ve been so long getting back to you. We went out of town to visit family. It was a great time. Saw a lot of family (24 kids under 16 on New Year’s Day!), played a lot of games (have you played Quelf?), ate a lot of food and drank a lot of drinks. Great stuff. How were your holidays?

well, if the books of the bible were not written until later on they prob included Narareth as if it had always been there not knowing any difference.  So Narareth was     put on the map after the 70ad Roman temple knock down.  After so much time stories get mixed up.  They did not have fact checker back then.
This can make sense, but in order for it to do so, you have to ignore a lot of things, including the points I brought up. Is that what you want to do?

Offline Nick

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2013, 09:36:35 PM »
It's been so long I don't recall your points...even after reading them again.  My point is that the Church seemed to come together around 200AD.  That seems to be when the Church was growing in power and put down other religions and other gospels that did not fit the narritive.  Gnostics were put away and the historic story came to be the "one" truth.  Book burning became the thing.  The library in Alexandria for example.  What knowledge we lost there. 

The Jesus story was the last in a long long line of god/man myths.  Depending on your status in life you moved on the knowledge branch of myth and knowledge.  But something happened.  Society went backwards...the Dark Ages came upon us.  The church liked it power and was not going to give it up easily.  So the story became historical and the 4 approved gospels came to be.  Most could not read so the church presented to the flock what they would believe. 

NOw if you want to buy into this myth as being real that is all fine and good.  I won't.  I noticed at the bottom of your page is a phrase "Cathloics Come Home".  I assume you are Catholic.  I was also.  1st thru 12th grades in Catholic school.  Hell, even considered the priesthood in a moment of weakness.  Anyhow, I hope you are happy in your delusion.  I've never been happier gettin g rid of mine.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 09:55:28 PM by Nick »
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline SimpleCaveman

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2013, 10:14:34 PM »
Hi Nick,

Thanks for the response.

It's been so long I don't recall your points...even after reading them again.
Yes, it’s been a while. I am grateful for your response, but at the same time I’m disappointed. It’s easy to follow the thread and refresh the memory. If that’s too much work, then I can see why you wouldn’t sift through the confusion that’s been created about world history. It’s much easier to shift the conversation to a new topic.

My point is that the Church seemed to come together around 200AD.  That seems to be when the Church was growing in power and pu down other religions and other gospels that did not fit the narritive.
Well, with all due respect, that wasn’t your point. And if you looked at the facts, then you’d see it’s not even a true point. I recommend this series of podcasts. It gives a good detailed accounting of early church history along with references.

Anyhow, I hope you are happy in your delusion.  I've never been happier gettin g rid of mine.
And what did you gain? It seems to me that you gained a bunch of inaccurate and confusing information and that’s what you base your life on. That’s what I call delusion.

Offline Nick

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2013, 10:15:12 PM »
You might try any of these for some answers: Misquoting Jesus - The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why by Bart Ehrman or The Christ Conspiracy - The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya.  The Jesus Puzzle by Doherty is good also.  Or Jesus Who? by Gardner...or The Jesus Mysteries by Freke/Gandy...or The Laughing Jesus by Freke/Gandy...or Jesus and the Lost Goddess by Freke/Gandy.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Nick

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2013, 10:20:57 PM »
Well, then we are at a standstill.  After seeing religion as the fraud that it is it would be impossible to go back to that life.  I no longer feel guilt for whatever I was suppose to feel guilt for.  I don't see Jesus as a real person.  I don't see any of the bible characters as real people...none of them.  You might as well ask me to start praying to Micky Mouse for answers.

Tell me.  What has this God thing done for you?  It sure does not do much.  Maybe fix a football game or 2 here and there.  After that mass killing in Conn any sane person would have to question the existence of a god.  Have you ever seen that pic of the starving kid in Africa with the vulture waiting to pick it off?  If that does not convince you that there is no god nothing will.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline SimpleCaveman

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2013, 10:27:34 PM »
Well, then we are at a standstill.  After seeing religion as the fraud that it is it would be impossible to go back to that life. 
I’m not sure why we’re at a standstill. I’m not here to convert you. You made a ridiculous statement about Nazareth not even existing 2000 years ago and that’s what I’m discussing.

If you’re right about all this, go back to the original topic you and I started in and let’s discuss the details.

Offline Nick

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2013, 10:29:24 PM »
Ah, ok, simple enough.  Narateth did not exist before 70ad.  What else do you want?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Nick

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2013, 10:31:40 PM »
Ah, ok, simple enough.  Narateth did not exist before 70ad.  What else do you want?
Do you have evidence it did?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline SimpleCaveman

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2013, 10:53:22 PM »
Ah, ok, simple enough.  Narateth did not exist before 70ad.  What else do you want?
Do you have evidence it did?
C’mon, Nick. You’re not adding to your credibility. We’ve been here. Catch up to our conversation and then we can start.

Offline Nick

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2013, 11:15:23 PM »
Not tonight, man.  Not in the mood.  Had a good friend killed in a car crash and just don't feel like getting into it with this stuff right now.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline SimpleCaveman

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2013, 11:26:34 PM »
Not tonight, man.  Not in the mood.  Had a good friend killed in a car crash and just don't feel like getting into it with this stuff right now.
Of course, of course. I'm very sorry to hear that. My sincere condolences.

Offline Nick

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2013, 11:53:50 AM »
OK SC, if you search for existence of Nazareth you will find different scholars with diff opinions...so I will assume you will side with the ones who say yes it was there before 70AD.  From what I have seen it looks more likely it was not.  I don't think we will get mush further with that.  And proving it one way or another is not going to get to the root of the whole thing.......did Jesus exist or not?  Isn't that where we are going here?  And then the next level.  Was He God?  So I doubt you and I are going to solve this problem.  It seems easy for me.  Lack of evidence...and the main question to the whole thing...What was the purpose of being killed on a cross?  Makes no sense what so ever if you really take a moment and think about it.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline SimpleCaveman

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2013, 02:34:37 PM »
Just to close this out, from personal conversations Nick and I are evidently not continuing the discussion about whether Nazareth existed at the time of Jesus or not. Saying that it didn’t was likely an off the cuff remark and I have pushed him to defend it when it’s not worth defending.

Nick, thank you for the conversation.

Offline penfold

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Re: who exactly wrote the gospels
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2013, 06:38:36 AM »
Ah, ok, simple enough.  Narateth did not exist before 70ad.  What else do you want?
Do you have evidence it did?
C’mon, Nick. You’re not adding to your credibility. We’ve been here. Catch up to our conversation and then we can start.


There is archaeological evidence of human settlement near modern Nazareth dating all the way back to the pre-historic era. There is evidence for a significant bronze and iron age settlement which was destroyed in 720BC. After that the record becomes patchy and outside the Christian sources the only mention of a settlement at Nazareth occurs in the 2-3rd C AD (source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazareth). Having said that, modern Nazareth sits in a fertile a river valley thus the claim that there was no habitation at all in the time of Jesus is a bit of a stretch.

In terms of the Christian sources the association of Jesus with the title Nazarene has good pedigree. It occurs in all the Gospels (including the very early Mark – c.30-60AD) and many of the non-canonical Christian texts.

It could be argued that the Gospel authors did have some motive for making the title of Nazarene up. In Matt 22:22-23 it is implied that Jesus coming from Nazareth fulfilled prophecy, and many of the most dubious stories of Jesus which are likely later elaborations of the emerging cult of Jesus (the birth narrative; the triumphal entry etc…) seem to be included in order to fit OT messiah prophecy. However despite Matthew’s assertion that Jesus coming from Nazareth fulfilled prophecy there is no mention of Nazareth in the OT at all. This would imply that rather than making up the fact Jesus was from Nazareth Matthew is actually making up the fact that this was in accordance with prophecy!

My own view is that the title of Nazarene is likely authentic; there are many better places for the Messiah to have been born than some little known and unimportant village with, at best, a small population. If the Gospel writers were going to make up a birth place they would almost certainly have picked out Jerusalem or Bethlehem (as later stories of the virgin birth, in fact, do!) which would have latched onto OT messiah prophecy. If the title of Nazarene is a fictional one, I struggle to find a motive for its inclusion in the Gospels.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away." - P.K.D.