Author Topic: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!  (Read 3374 times)

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Offline Garja

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2012, 11:35:39 PM »
I actually made sure to only post questions that directly or indireclty concern evilution. Had I posted questions regarding the big bang theory or atheism in general, the post would simply have been too long... :laugh:

Actually 2, 5, 8, 11, 12, 13, 15, 21 have nothing to do with evolution.
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Offline Cyberia

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2012, 12:15:54 AM »
21º How do you explain the Fibonacci sequence/the number "e" & the number Pi?

Pfft, I can beat that one.  Check this out:


EDIT: sorry attachment noob alert
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Offline mhaberling

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2012, 12:27:31 AM »
ding ding... an exciting first round...  shin came out swinging but was attacked without mercy by a band of atheists... folks i dont even know if thats legal... he's beaten he's battered but man i think that shin still has some fight in him... how is going to answer his opponents explanations? can he take on so many atheists at once? what in the fuck does pi halve to do with any of this????? "ding ding" looks like were gonna find out cause its time for round 2! (i can stop if you want me to but im having fun with it)
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2012, 12:32:59 AM »



First of all, I removed the video from this response in the interest of saving bandwidth. And besides, the reason god didn't have a commandment prohibiting christians from peeing in their own mouth was that he knew christians weren't flexible enough.


Anyway, here goes. Because the Park SHIN chose is full of wild and evolved animals:

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Ok. This is going to be a walk in the park... Since u skeptics always like to answer theists by asking more questions, I shall do the same on this thread. All these questions are from me. Imagine if I had access to all the good questions, made over the years by all the intelligent theists out there... lolz... u get the point...

Let's begin shall we?...

1º Why are monkeys still here?


Thanks for starting with an easy one. This will help me get warmed up.


Nowhere in scientific literature does it say humans evolved from monkeys. The only place you will find that claim is in the writings and YouTube videos, etc. of christians. They made it up and then complain that it is silly. Of course it is silly. They made it up.


Humans and monkeys and all other current primates evolved from the same primate ancestors. That is a much different claim than the simplistic drivel parroted by the christians. You guys don't get to make up what evolution is and then complain that it isn't accurate. And I thought you guys knew better than to lie.

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2º Why is the universe so complex?


This is a strange question. Where in the bible does it say "And god said: let there be complexity". I, for one, can't think of a single reason for it to be simple. However, this discussion is supposed to be about evolution, not astrophysics, so to delve into this would sidetrack the discussion.

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3º Why women?


I'm surprised you're complaining, but I wonder why you didn't ask "Why men?" instead. In either case, sex evolved because it gave rise to more genetic diversity, which could, by increasing the rate of genetic change and creating more versions of the species, give the offspring (when it actually worked) a wider range of genetic characteristics, which might increase the chances of that species surviving.


Do keep in mind that something like 95% of all species that ever existed are not extinct. The genetic diversity afforded by sexual rather than asexual reproduction did not always work. And given that there are still species that procreate asexually, it might not have even been necessary. But it happened. I got to pay child support. And here we are.


You're supposed to enjoy it. Hope you can someday.

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4º Why the necessity for food?


Luna moths, found in the US, don't have mouths. They live for a maximum of five days, during which time either they find another luna moth to mate with or they just have a bad life. So we don't have to have food. Unless of course we want to live a little longer than that. Living, breathing critters require food to provide the sustenance necessary to survive and reproduce.


A god could have avoided it. Evolution could not. Plants don't actually eat, of course. They rely mostly on photosynthesis to make their food. So there are ways around the eating thing.But while you may be green with envy at what the plant can do, I kind of like the option of eating junk food. Now if you want to specifically discuss the evolution of the various methods living things use to take in food, we can do that. But if you don't understand that living organisms are partially defined by being self-sustaining, and think that the fact that we eat is some sort of proof that evolution is false, you need to ask in a clearer way.

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5º Why is there right from wrong/good from evil?


This has nothing to do with evolution. Other than humans, life seems to get along fine without those concepts. God people are far more hung up on the concept than we who understand that the list of human frailties is plenty long enough to include bad stuff too.

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6º Why emotions & consciousness/why didn't we remain like the animals(unable to choose right from wrong)?


This wasn't a necessary component of evolution. Humans appear to have evolved into more emotional beings than ants and cows, but a)keep in mind that we have no way to test for emotions in other living creatures and b)the other critters have no way to test us by their standards. So we're guessing here. But since emotion is neither a component of evolution or a requirement, I'll let this one slide.

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7º Why ability to reproduce?


See women, above. Unless that embarrasses you. If so, let me know and I'll draw you diagrams and send them via PM.

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8º Why is there only one habitable planet?


Again, this doesn't have diddly to do with evolution, but if you must ask, I shall respond.


First of all, we don't know that there is only one habitable planet. Our lack of detailed knowledge about the rest of the universe prevents us from beign able to say much about this at all. There does not appear to be any reason for there not to be at least one other habitable planet around one of the 9,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 other stars. I apologize for our lack of knowledge on the subject, but he dark ages slowed progress a bit.


Second of all, I'll stop here because apparently you can't count that high.

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9º Why does sex feel so good?


I'm glad you've been asking around and trying to find out about the real world. And I'm glad someone told you about this fact. Happily, we're back on subject, so I'll be glad to answer.


Think about how natural it is to walk up to a member of the opposite sex and insert a part of your body into a place in her body and inject sperm. Does that have an inherent appeal? Is that something you would really want to do some day if all you got out of it was the need to wash up?


Sex is more likely to happen more often if there is an impetus to make us do it. A free bonus, so to speak. So our nervous system and our brains evolved to reward life-creating activity. It didn't have to do this, and probably didn't in many cases. Which would explain why many species are no longer with us.


If two pairs of humans, one male and one female, identical in every other way, are stuck in bed with each other and bored silly, which pair is the most likely to mate. The pair that experiences positive feedback via climax, or the republicans? If you dn't feel qualified to answer, you don't have to

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10º Why are the opposite sexes attracted to each other?


In humans, when they are attracted to members of the opposite sex, it is because they have great taste. When they are only attracted to members of the same sex, it is also because they have great taste. However, from an evolutionary standpoint, I must admit that species that were always attracted only to their own sex disappeared. So if the goal is a fun, enjoyable, long and loving relationship, it doesn't matter which sex you engage with. If you want your kind to continue, however, some have to mate with members of the opposite sex and have offspring.

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11º Why do we have dominion over the animals?


Are you asking me or the grizzly bears?


Dominion over other animals is a religious thing. It is never discussed vis-à-vis evolution, because it is irrelevant to the theory. I see no reason to discuss your hangups.

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12º How do you explain Polonium 218?


Well, the one scientist who thinks this is an issue won't tell anyone where he got the rocks from so that others could try duplicating his results. Kind of makes it hard to do science. So until he fesses up and tells everyone where he got his material, we're sort of at a standstill. His claims make no sense to those who could assess his work if they had a chance. So fuck you, Dr. Robert Gentry, for being such a bad scientist.

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13º Why life/why didn't we remain atoms or rocks or whatever...?


Well, first of all, I saw a YouTube video that said it isn't any fun to be a rock and use the Internet, because mousing is impossible. So I, for one, am not complaining about my mobility and/or living in general. So however it happened, whee!


Now if you're asking about abiogenesis, it doesn't actually have anything to do with evolution. At least not technically speaking. Whatever caused the first life, it wasn't evolution. So again, in our discussion, you're brought up something irrelevant. Science does not yet know how life started. Note however that they also have resisted the urge to make something up and worship it.

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14º Why has macro-evilution never been observed in human history?


You mean like, IRL? A crocodile turning into a duck? That kind of made up crap? Gee, could it be that evolution takes longer than a human lifetime, and that haven't yet evolved to live long enough to personally witness such changes.


On evolutionary time-scales, we are newbies, and if you narrow our existence down to the less than 200 years that we have been aware of evolution, were are frickin' newborns. Nobody in science ever said something that takes a long time could be observed easily. Yet believers walk around complaining that they don't get to watch. If you wished that all women were playboy bunnies and none of them could afford curtains for their windows, would the fact that that hasn't happened actually surprise you? You're probably upset that 12/21/12 didn't mean the end of the world too, aren't you.


Your expectations are too high, reality is too cruel. Adapt.

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15º Why is the oldest tree only 4000 years old(coinciding with the flood)?


Well, first of all, you made up the 4000 year old tree. Or some other religious person that you believe made it up. Because the oldest one was almost 7,000 years old. But its okay if you rounded down a few millennia. The fragile ego of the believer is more important than the truth. But you specified "tree", on the assumption, I guess, that nothing else could live longer than a tree because trees were mentioned in Genesis so that must be true. However, other, none-tree organisms have lived longer. Most especially sea sponges growing near Antarctica that appear to be 10,000 years old.


You won't let me count it, but there are clonal plant colonies around the world that range in age from less than 10,000 years to somewhere around 200,000 years. But that is the colony living that long, not individual plants within in. I'm pretty sure you would think there is a loophole in there so don't worry about it. I'll just stick with the 7,000 year old tree claims, of which there are two: one in Norway, one in, wait for it, the holy lands. Olive trees.


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16º Where are all the transitional fossils from the millions & billions & gazillions of animals & humans that were supposedly evolving over millions & billions & gazillions of years?


This is another case where creationists and other religious people don't understand diddly about evolution, so they make crap up. You guys keep thinking that one species moves to another species in a single generation. Your understanding of time is so distorted by your biblical version that you can't understand the basic concept.


If you happen to get caught in a landslide of sand and your body is trapped under it for millions of years and it is pressed by geologic forces into sandstone and some paleontologist in the year 2,000,012 finds you, guess what you'll be. A transitional fossil Because all fossils are transitional. Each one is at least a little bit different that its parents, and each one passes slightly different DNA on to its offspring, and a few tens of thousands of generations down the line the kid that pops out will have no close resemblance to your parents.


Evolution doesn't take weeks. It takes eons. Until you can understand that, you can't understand anything.

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17º Why can no example be given for a single genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the beneficial information in the genome?


Mostly because christians are blind. At least to reality.


The problem with cutting and pasting from theist web sites is that you start to believe that your keyboard is telling you the truth. Of course you just had to go to a web site that added "beneficial" to the original question. Proof, by the way, that theist thinking evolves. When this question was first posed by theists, they simply asked if such a change could be seen to "increase the information in a genome". Just my luck that you went to an evolved site.


You won't like this, but one of the ways we know a creationist is ignorant of science is if they ask this question. Either version. Because there are gobs, as in a whole frickin' lot, of examples that demonstrate precisely that. Creationist chose to misquote Richard Dawkins to earn themselves brownie points with their fellow non-knowers, while those of us who actually passed third grade science know otherwise.


I could give you all sorts of examples, but since you're hung up on women, how about this one. I'll give the link at the end, but in essence several species of bacteria have evolved to be able to eat nylon. And survive off of it. Being as nylon was first produced in 1935, obviously these critters have evolved since then. And though it probably pisses off everyone who depends on nylon for one reason or another, the bacteria themselves get another source of food. Hence it is beneficial.


http://www.nmsr.org/nylon.htm


Other examples, if you're going to go all scientific on me:


http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoMutations.html


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18º Can someone document just one 100% verifiable transitionary fossil that proves that one species actually changed into another completely different species?
Now if you mean completely different species, like from kangaroo to tulip, I'm sorry. Can't do that. It never happens. But if you mean something like when poliploidy happens, a doubling of the number of chromosomes in each cell, which can happen naturally (which means more information, something I just discussed in the previous question, rears its ugly head again). The resulting plant cannot back breed with its parental plant, but can breed with other polyplidal plants that have the same genetic change. It becomes a new species. We can even do this in the lab.
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19º What about the population problem with evilution?



If you can't spell it, I have a hard time answering it. You sort of need to specify what problem you're talking about. Are there too many Portuguese, or too few, or what?

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20º How did new biochemical pathways(which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence) originate?



You know, the other keys on your keyboard can be struck in random order and used to record original thoughts. You are not limited to just cutting and pasting.


You don't know what you're talking about here, which makes it hard for me to give an answer which you will find meaningful. Of course that applies to most of your post, but it is starting to get a bit extreme.


I am sure that there are many theories. I am sure I could google the question and get lots of links to paste. But the problem here is that you and your ilk are so determined to prove to yourselves that evolution is impossible that you refuse to look at the various pieces of proof that we have. Instead you hone in one something that "just doesn't make sense" of "seems highly improbably" and relabel it as proof positive that some tiny little detail couldn't possibly have happened, thereby negating the whole theory in one fell swoop.


Only in your own heads, but that's good enough for you.


Until you can prove to me that you have at least a layman's level of knowledge about what the above question means, I am not inclined to look up the answer. I've no doubt there is one, but I don't know if I can word it silly enough for you to believe it.


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21º How do you explain the Fibonacci sequence/the number "e" & the number Pi?



I was just talking about this the other day with my year and half old grand nephew. He giggled a lot, but I'm so old I forgot how I put it. So you're out of luck. Unless you can tie this question into the topic of evolution, which is what I thought we were talking about. If we extend this discussion to cover every reality in the universe you will find yourself further over your head than you ever imagined possible.

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22º Why do all humans, at least once in their life, wonder about a supreme being?



First of all, also not an evolution question. But, do you suppose it is because people from previous generations brought it up over dinner or they saw it on a YouTube video or they read all about it on a bumper sticker? You want it to be because you think that since there must be one, such thoughts are inevitable.


Besides, I'm pretty darned sure there have been at least a few folks who lived their whole lives without thinking about it. I give the question thought, from time to time. Not about whether there is one, but instead asking why so many people believe such an obvious untruth. Anyway, this has nothing to do with evolution. So I'm not going to worry about it unless you can put it into a relevant scientific perspective.

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&... BAM! Poor little skeptics... I am so very sorry for this. I didn't want to create this thread, lest I should embarass you. But hey! u should have thought about that beforehand. Ever heard the saying : "be careful what u wish for?" haha


(REMOVED VIDEO)

PS : I, & only I, will decide on the validity of each person's answer. I wasn't going to create this thread but since someone clearly wanted to be embarassed, I shall create this same thread on the other 2 forums. I have a feeling this thread will remain at the top of the list for a looong time... I'll understand, if from now on, all the heathens of this forum hate me. &)

Have a good one skeptics 8)





You're like the guy who got hit by a train and asked "Is the locomotive okay?"  No, none of your alleged questions, about evolution or not, threw me for a loop. You have demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge on the subject and that all the information you do have is both false and supplied by those religious folks you trust.


If you would put just 10% of the energy you have put into the 144,000 guys thing you are so sure is true into learning something about the science of evolution, you could have an intelligent conversation about it. As it is, were it not for high profile web sites and other dodgy sources, you wouldn't even know the controversy exists. You would have your bible story and nothing else and be perfectly content.


I myself could reach a similar state of ignorance with the help of a full prefrontal lobotomy and a massive stroke. Wish me luck.


I would have answered your questions with much more serious a tone had you asked them in one. And I would take the conversation much more seriously if you had put actual effort into your post here. I should warn you, you can't cut and paste your way through life.


And oh yea, one of the reasons we eat is to feed our brain. This would be a good time to ask why you aren't hungry.


Oh, and you don't get to decide who won. Reality does. And since you have no contact with it, I think the prize goes to me.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline mhaberling

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2012, 01:11:42 AM »
on the universe being complex point.... stephen wolfram came up with a theory of a computaional universe which is really fascinating... if you want to see a great theory on the universe actually being really simple

edit... shit i was gonna stay a way from meaningful discussion on.this one
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 01:17:15 AM by mhaberling »
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2012, 06:53:26 AM »
Okay I'll give this one a shot.

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1º Why are monkeys still here?

We didn't evolve from monkeys, we share ancestors. Think of it like this, many families have cousins - it's the family tree that has split. Some animals have barely evolved and are fairly prehistoric, why's this? Why have they not evolved much? Look into natural selection, it's all about the survival of the fittest. If you are well adapted to your environment and your environment doesn't change, you'll generally keep all those useful traits, because they've helped your survival.

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2º Why is the universe so complex?

Not really to do with evolution. You're not going to attempt the watchmaker argument are you? It's so complex because it's designed. Complex things can't happen due to randomisation? Well, specific to evolution (as we're talking about evolution), it's not randomisation as most would have you believe, it's more like a slot machine, you pull the arm and you see 'Jackpot' on one, so you hit 'hold' and you pull the arm again, no Jackpots, you try again and then you get another. It's a case of randomisation but keeping the useful traits, but you'll also keep some of the useless ones too, the appendix used to be useful once upon a time, but now all it's good for is randomly saying, "I'm going to try and kill you now". Humans don't use their appendix anymore, but other animals do.

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3º Why women?

I would put that down to variation in the gene pool. If you asexually reproduce you're replicating the same genes. The same happens with inbreeding and inbreeding has a lot of disadvantages, for a healthy gene pool you need genetic variation, for example, if you've got a genetic disorder, if you mate with somebody without it, there's less of a chance of your offspring from getting it.

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4º Why the necessity for food?

We need energy to function (like a car need petrol), cells need to be replaced, including the white blood cells in our immune system. We also grow. This is a pretty silly question.

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5º Why is there right from wrong/good from evil?|

Objectively? There isn't. It's a concept we've created, why would we need to create it? We have empathy for a start, but why do we need the emotion 'empathy'? Because we are a social species, primates rely on their own societies to survive, to look out for each other and to have actions we shun as a society and actions we praise and it's best for our survival. Humans aren't the only primates who do this, but our system is a lot more sophisticated, but then we are more intelligent. We've reasoned a lot of systems of ethics over many, many, many years.

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6º Why emotions & consciousness/why didn't we remain like the animals(unable to choose right from wrong)?

But animals have emotions and consciousness. Heck, animals are even able to choose right from wrong and heck, even feel guilty when they do wrong. We used to have a cat who used to like playing with mice, when the mouse died it'd spend the rest of the day moping around and feeling sad, he never tried to kill the mice, only play with them. A tigress maybe sad when its lost its cubs. Heck, I've even seen a duck panic because its missing a chick. Sometimes you'll see animals show a sense of compassion, love and various other traits humans have. Some animals have their own concepts of what's a 'right' action and what's a 'wrong' action. Generally they won't hurt those they love. Heck, there's a type of crocodile that'll foster the young of other crocs and will go out of their way to protect them and make sure that no croc is left behind when on the move. That crocodile doesn't have to care for any young that they've no produced.

Heck, not all humans have the ability to choose right from wrong.

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7º Why ability to reproduce?

For the survival of the species. We die and if we reproduce then we keep the gene pool going.

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8º Why is there only one habitable planet?

We don't know this. Heck, I remember reading not so long ago about the discovery of an earth-like planet that might be habitable, I think it was in the Andromeda Galaxy.

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9º Why does sex feel so good?

I would put that down to encouraging reproduction. It's instinctive, we need to reproduce. 

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10º Why are the opposite sexes attracted to each other?

Instincts. I'd say they're attracted for 2 possible reasons, sex and for companionship. There are a certain number of animals in the world who'll seek companionship and for that instinct you could suggest it exists for raising young. Of course, not every couple ends up doing that, heck, even in the animal kingdom. Heck, companionship doesn't only occur in opposite sexes or for the purpose of sex...heck, not even between the same species - humans aren't the only ones who make friends.

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11º Why do we have dominion over the animals?

Not all of the animals. We have dominion because we're so well adapted to this world, our intelligence surpasses that of any other animal, it allows us to think in ways they might not. It means we have figured out how to farm animals instead of hunting them (as an example).

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12º How do you explain Polonium 218?

You're going to have to explain more. It's a radioactive material?

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13º Why life/why didn't we remain atoms or rocks or whatever...?

'Why' is really a human attempt to try and explain their existence. 'How' on the other hand, we're talking about chemical reactions and in the right conditions they create life, it is abiogenesis, but that's not evolution. Why do we exist? Does there have to be a reason? Again, these questions aren't to do with evolution.

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14º Why has macro-evilution never been observed in human history?

Well think about it, for macro-evolution to occur we're not talking about in the space of 100 years, or even 1000 years, we're talking about something a lot more large-scale. But in human history, a certain level of evolution can have happened, but we've not noticed it given our short life spans or because we've not documented anything like this. However, we can note evolutionary changes made through selective breeding, we've picked traits we like in animals and bred them to create an offspring with those traits, it can be a cow that produces more milk or a dog that runs faster (like a greyhound) or it could be cosmetic like certain pedigree cats. A bulldog, for example, is not a dog that came about through natural selection, it's something we've managed to selectively breed to create that particular breed of dog, it has no real evolutionary advantages, particularly as they tend to require human intervention during child birth. For nature to make permanent changes, it's a lot slower process than selective breeding.

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15º Why is the oldest tree only 4000 years old(coinciding with the flood)?

There's a flood myth in several cultures around the world. Some speculate a flood could have happened, not necessarily one created by the God of the bible (the bible flood myth is essentially a rip off of the Mesopotamian one anyway). The answer is, I don't know. It could well be coincidence? They do happen. 4,000 years old is only an approximation, if the flood was 4,135 years ago and this tree is 4,265 years old, then it could be older. But we simple don't know.

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16º Where are all the transitional fossils from the millions & billions & gazillions of animals & humans that were supposedly evolving over millions & billions & gazillions of years?

Some are in museums, some are kept in labs and I suspect a vast majority are still underground, I mean there's so much underground we've not actually explored it's unbelievable. But many transitional fossils HAVE been discovered. All life is a transition of another. However, there is a particularly interesting living specimen and that's the lungfish. It is a fish, it fins has hardened so it can crawl along the ground and its swim bladder acts as a lung, these can be found in hot countries like The Congo where during the hot seasons water tends to dry up and these fish have to find a new source of water. With their lung they can breathe out of water (they still have gills for breathing in water) and their hardened fins means they can crawl around when they need to find a new home. I would argue this is a part of a transition from 'fish' to 'amphibian'.

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17º Why can no example be given for a single genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the beneficial information in the genome?

I just gave an example of a genetic mutation that has been beneficial.

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18º Can someone document just one 100% verifiable transitionary fossil that proves that one species actually changed into another completely different species?

I haven't got the time to dig out all of the research, but this website might be useful, though I've not looked at it in any depth.
http://transitionalfossils.com/


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19º What about the population problem with evilution?

What about it? You seem to think it's some all governing force that makes sure there's balance in the world. Usually there's ecosystems that keep population in check. However, in humans becoming as smart as we are, we've managed to surpass many dangers in the world and overpopulate the earth and messed up our ecosystems. Yes, animals that haven't been able to adapt to the human presence have been wiped out and for others our emotion called 'empathy' has allowed us to spare some species. Our evolution has managed to significantly increase our chances of survival and other creatures haven't been able to compete, we know how to defend against any natural predators we might have had.

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20º How did new biochemical pathways(which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence) originate?

My biology is hazy on this one. But anything that works in sequence can come about through trial and error. Evolution itself involves a process of trial and error.

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21º How do you explain the Fibonacci sequence/the number "e" & the number Pi?

We're talking mathematics here, not evolution. Pi is related to the circumference of a circle. The Fibonacci sequence is also mathematics.

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22º Why do all humans, at least once in their life, wonder about a supreme being?

Humans are constantly trying to understand and explain the universe. A deity is an explanation people have had for it, but it's pretty much engrained into our society, so it's hard not to think about it. Heck, with Santa Claus so engrained into our society and so many saying he's real, we have wondered about him and have believed him to be real.

With the human brain and human intelligence, we also have an imagination. Generally where there are things we can't explain but wish to, it can be easier to conclude it was a supreme being, we actually call this the 'god of the gaps' argument. Once upon a time people didn't understand how the rain works, hence they believed a deity made it rain and different cultures as a result believed they could get this supreme being to make it rain and different cultures tried different things. The rain dance is one, ritual sacrifice is another. But it's all superstition. We know how rain works now, we know of the water cycle. But we have a habit of personifying things (not just creating deities, but in other things too). I do not know how the idea of a deity was first conjured, but there could be a number of reasons why we've personified the world around us in such away. Heck, even the sun and moon have been deified before now and we know they're not deities - one's a ball of fire and the other is a big rock. As said, people will attempt to find ways of explaining things they do not understand.



Oh and by the way, it's spelled 'evolution'. But if you want to play the same petty game of other Christians, I could start referring to the bible as the Lie-ble. But it'd be pretty pathetic of me.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 06:58:32 AM by Seppuku »
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
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Offline SHIN KAIRI

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2012, 07:20:33 AM »
Presuppositionalism wins everytime

Nietzsche : "Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

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Offline SHIN KAIRI

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2012, 07:35:49 AM »
LOL so far, the only question to which I can accept your answers is the 1rst one. Granted. We didn't evolve fom monkeys but had a common ancestor(in your opinion ofc). Apart from that, it's just gibberish & avoiding questions.

So, you still have 21 questions to go... :P

Good luck...

PS : Btw... if I was an atheist, I would only look at Seppuku's answers, cz the rest is pretty embarassing... :angel:
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 07:53:25 AM by SHIN KAIRI »
Presuppositionalism wins everytime

Nietzsche : "Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

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Offline SHIN KAIRI

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2012, 07:55:59 AM »
Quick embarassing update : In all 3 forums I got different answers on the "tree question".

I got that the oldest tree was 1º : 7000 years old, 2º : 9550 years old.

Perhaps you guys might want to check on that... it's a bit embarassing imho...

Peace out!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 09:21:45 AM by SHIN KAIRI »
Presuppositionalism wins everytime

Nietzsche : "Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

Making atheists cry since 1991

This will save ur life : https://www.facebook.com/notes/nuno-os%C3%B3rio/pure-truth/74076103182

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2012, 08:35:24 AM »
Well, Shin, given your dissatisfaction with the answers you have got so far, how about if you post your answers? You might as well explain why you chose so many questions that are not the subject of Evolution at all.

I'm looking forward to hearing your views on this.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2012, 08:39:16 AM »
I forgot. I don't know how accurate it is, but the article from Wikipedia lists the oldest trees and colonies of trees. maybe this will satisfy you, Shin.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2012, 08:54:28 AM »
Quick embarassing update : In all 3 forums I got different answers on the "tree question".

I got that the oldest tree was 1º : 7000 years old, 2º : 9550 years old.

Perhaps you guys might want to check on that... it's  bit embarassing imho...

Peace out!
Can you direct us to the sources you were given? If you didn't even ask for any, or bother to look for any yourself, or do any research to determine what the answer to your own question actually is, then I submit that you are being DELIBERATELY ignorant of the scientific process with the purposes of instigation and belligerence, in other words, TROLLING.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2012, 10:18:25 AM »
LOL so far, the only question to which I can accept your answers is the 1rst one. Granted. We didn't evolve fom monkeys but had a common ancestor(in your opinion ofc). Apart from that, it's just gibberish & avoiding questions.

So, you still have 21 questions to go... :P

Good luck...

PS : Btw... if I was an atheist, I would only look at Seppuku's answers, cz the rest is pretty embarassing... :angel:


Your standards are too low. I used information. You don't know what to do with it. You are declaring yourself the winner because you have no way of dealing with anything that doesn't fit your erroneous model of the world. You live in a little tiny box and think the most dangerous part of your world is the little latch that would open it up and let you out. That's the last thing you want.


Merely claiming something is gibberish and not having the fucking balls to specify is about as useful as giving salt to a man dying of thirst. I gave you almost an almost 3,000 word answer (the same amount of text as you have provided us in your last 100 posts) and all you can do is whimp out and go into bully mode, boldly proclaiming your success while each of your two brain cells are running around inside your head trying to find each other.


You are living proof that evolution has its failures. Which we already knew. Even before 1991. So you go ahead and pretend you have knowledge and we'll continue researching and learning about the world. You go ahead and diss everything that doesn't fit in your head and while the rest of us continue to wonder how you can masturbate and type at the same time.


Update: Since you haven't actually said anything, I now understand how you masturbate and type at the same time. I didn't realize til now that your posts are merely stains. My bad.


You couldn't type up an actual reply even if your fingers WERE dry. You haven't even read everything I wrote because its been less than 24 hours and you can't read that fast. You've got nothing but you don't know it because you can't count that high.


Give me an actual mindless response that contains a specific complaint about a specific question, provide specific reasons as to why it was wrong, and actually participate, or just wipe off your hands and go find something else to do.


I'm going to tell on you. I'm even going to have a talk with your babysitter. You are in SOOOOO much trouble.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 10:27:50 AM by ParkingPlaces »
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Seppuku

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2012, 10:29:01 AM »
Okay, how about this Shin, you give us a summary of the theory of evolution and explain what evidence there is supporting the theory and for bonus points you can explain why said supporting evidence is wrong and extra extra bonus points if you can provide evidence that it's wrong. If you're able to bring all of that, then this could be a very interesting discussion, but I am willing to accept your answer without any bonus points, but if you can score them, well that's some credibility on your part.


You see, we quite often get theists proclaiming how wrong the theory of evolution is, but demonstrating very little knowledge about it and often have their own misconceptions about it, yet they'll profess they are right and may even claim some kind of victory.

So instead of having us do all the leg work, lets see what work you can do. So often theists will have us do the leg work of providing answers and even offering sources and then offering very little in exchange. I would hope that if you're going to claim victory, then you understand what it is you're claiming victory over, because if you don't, then how do you know you've won?
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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2012, 11:06:04 AM »
A little help on your homework, Shin. Try going to this site for the explanation of evolution and the evidence for it. Once you have studied it you will be in a position to evaluate it and show us all where it is wrong.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2012, 11:40:34 AM »
SHIN must really think highly of himself, since he's decided he'll be the final arbiter of what he'll accept as answers.  Of course, the fact remains that the only thing he can decide is whether he's willing to listen.  Even if he had the honesty and integrity for his opinion to be meaningful, he still wouldn't be the arbiter of what constitutes an answer to scientific questions.

I thought about answering his questions, but...not right now.  Got holiday stuff to do today.  If he's still trying out his holier-than-thou aura when I have the chance, I'll see about posting my own answers.

Though, he really does need to understand that different people will have different answers to these questions because we all think differently and not everyone has access to the same information about them.  This is part of what I mean about his lack of honesty and integrity - since he has none to speak of for himself, he projects that onto the people asks these things of and presumes that they're the ones who are actually lacking in honesty and integrity.  Pretty sad, really.

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You can't prove a negative of an existence postulate.

Offline caveat_imperator

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2012, 05:45:26 PM »
ok boys i want a clean fight...
From an anti-evolutionist like shin kairi?
You can't prove a negative of an existence postulate.

Offline Jontom10

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2012, 03:49:37 PM »
To borrow from a quote.

Park you having been playing chess with a pidgeon (SHIN). You have made your move, the pidgeon has knocked over all the pieces, shit all over the board and flown back to its flock and declared victory.

Shin, at least take the time to read and learn about evolution before coming back and posting. Your thoughts on comparisons between your new found verified information vs. your ingrained theocratical fantasies would make interesting reading.

Start with the base fact that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and not 4, 5, 6, or 7 thousand years old (take your pick based on your fantasy booklet) so that you can understand the concept of the passage of enormous amounts of time and the number of occurences of events in between.
Hasa Diga Eebowai

Offline William

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2012, 07:22:21 PM »
1º Why are monkeys still here?
The monkeys that are “still here” are not the monkeys from way back.  They are not our ancestors, they have also evolved in different ways.  They share a common ancestor with us and the other apes.

2º Why is the universe so complex?
When stuff goes bang there is a lot of shit spread far and wide.  We are slowly and methodically unravelling the complexity.

3º Why women?
Not sure there is a reason. Might be worth asking God this question ... he didn’t even think of having women at first ... apparently they weren’t part of the original plan.

4º Why the necessity for food?
Energy and nutrients.

5º Why is there right from wrong/good from evil?
Mirror neurons and philosophy.

6º Why emotions & consciousness/why didn't we remain like the animals(unable to choose right from wrong)?
Well, plenty animals can choose right from wrong.  Social animals have evolved social rules. Humans added philosophy and writing as a system for extra genetic inheritance of information (a lot of which gets proven wrong with time).

7º Why ability to reproduce?
Anything (living) that couldn’t reproduce is long gone.   Apparently God cannot reproduce.  He could only have one son, but needed an angel to pull that off and a surrogate virgin mother.  It is said that God created us in his own image, but clearly the quality assurance of that process sucks because most of us are going to hell – unfit for his company in heaven.

8º Why is there only one habitable planet?
Um no – there probably isn’t only one.  Patience please.

9º Why does sex feel so good?
Quite simply because our parents enjoyed it too.

10º Why are the opposite sexes attracted to each other?
Sexuality has heritable components.  When opposite sexes attract that facilitates breeding, so naturally that configuration of sexuality dominates the numbers.  But this is not always true.  The configuration of sex genes varies, as does expression.  The configuration of sex genes is not inherited with absolute fidelity - cross-overs, translocations, duplications and mutations are well documented.  Environmental modifiers of sex gene expression are still being studied – a complex picture is emerging involving many genes and many variables – consistent with the diversity of human sexuality.   

11º Why do we have dominion over the animals?
I think that is bollocks – yes we’re smarter than animals in certain ways but try telling a wild bull elephant that you’re his boss – I think not.   Dogs have better smell than us. Eagles have better eyesight than us. The platypus has senses we don’t.  Fish have gills, giving them access to more of the planet than we have.

12º How do you explain Polonium 218?
(See the link to the debunking in talkorgins provided by jetson above.)

13º Why life/why didn't we remain atoms or rocks or whatever...?
Chemistry + probability + time.  All exist and are sufficient.

14º Why has macro-evilution never been observed in human history?
Basically because there is no such thing as “macro-evolution”.  It’s all micro-evolution added up over long periods – longer periods than human history.

15º Why is the oldest tree only 4000 years old(coinciding with the flood)?
Sorry that is wrong.  Mischievously wrong.
Quote
Old Tjikko is a 9,550 year old Norway Spruce tree, located on Fulufjället Mountain of Dalarna province in Sweden. Old Tjikko is the world's oldest living individual clonal tree. However, there are many examples of much older clonal colonies (multiple trees connected by a common root system), such as "Pando", estimated to be over 80,000 years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Tjikko


16º Where are all the transitional fossils from the millions & billions & gazillions of animals & humans that were supposedly evolving over millions & billions & gazillions of years?
What is a “transitional fossil”?   Define the smallest gaps you will accept as adequately filled by a “transitional fossil”.

17º Why can no example be given for a single genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the beneficial information in the genome?
Plenty examples in scientific literature.  Even two honest seconds on google will deliver as many as you want:
Quote
ABSTRACT Analysis of a genetic cross of Plasmodium falciparum and of independent parasite isolates from Southeast Asia, Africa, and South America indicates that resistance to pyrimethamine, an antifolate used in the treatment of malaria, results from point mutations in the gene encoding dihydrofolate reductase-thymidylate synthase ...
http://www.pnas.org/content/85/23/9114.full.pdf
Another:
Quote
Results: The point mutation V588F in the isoleucyl-tRNA synthetase was identified from the ileS sequences of GISA-2 and mupirocin-resistant mutants of Mu50. The V588F mutation was not associated with a significant fitness burden.
Conclusions: The low fitness cost of the V588F substitution in isoleucyl-tRNA synthetase is consistent with the frequent appearance and maintenance of this mutation in mupirocin-resistant clinical isolates, including GISA-2.
http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/53/1/102.full.pdf
I can go on and on and on about mutations ... it is my pet subject.

18º Can someone document just one 100% verifiable transitionary fossil that proves that one species actually changed into another completely different species?
Good luck with that quest.  As far as I know nothing has ever changed into another completely different species – that is just not how evolution works.

19º What about the population problem with evilution?
What exactly is the problem please?

20º How did new biochemical pathways(which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence) originate?
The main mechanism for this is gene duplication which frees copies of the gene to change.  But something called "escape from adaptive conflict" has also been demonstrated. The capability of individual enzymes evolves, sometimes into multiple catalytic functions based on the same protein, and new dependencies develop.  Then old catalytic capabilities can become redundant (free to change or degrade), and when knocked out by mutations they are not missed.  If the genes of enzymes with multiple catalytic capability are duplicated the possibilities multiply even more.   So it all looks like magic if you turn up late in the piece – but it wasn’t.

21º How do you explain the Fibonacci sequence/the number "e" & the number Pi?
I don’t know.  Why is it relevant?

22º Why do all humans, at least once in their life, wonder about a supreme being?
Because practically nobody can be effectively shielded from exposure to memes about supreme beings.

& last but not least, here's a 47 second video you all should enjoy...
Apparently plenty humans think it’s a good idea to drink their own urine too:
Quote
In alternative medicine, the term urine therapy or urotherapy, (also urinotherapy or uropathy) refers to various applications of human urine for medicinal or cosmetic purposes, including drinking of one's own urine and massaging one's skin with one's own urine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_therapy
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Offline Tero

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2012, 09:00:18 PM »
The women issue is complex. Sexes allows faster evolution, but then what?

It appears that you produce more variety in a population. This allowed more chances for some members of the diverse population to survive. In an infection for example.

13. Rocks: silicon etc plus oxygen
We: carbon, complexity
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 09:03:47 PM by Tero »

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2012, 09:05:09 PM »
Just an update folks. SHIN isn't with us any more, and while he posted the same thing on ATT, he hasn't responded in recent times to the thread there either, even though he is still active on that site.


But he won1, so I guess he doesn't need any more input or something.


1 Or so he declared.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Tero

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2012, 10:59:47 PM »
Just once, I'd like to see one these people take the board name Why Are There Still Monkeys ?, WATSM? for short.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2012, 09:26:26 AM »
I like the Milano mutation, which is a small mutation in a group of Italians, allowing them to disappear cholesterol from their veins, enabling them to eat loads of pizza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ApoA-1_Milano

This mutation also causes an increase in trigs and decrease in HDL. So, whether you think it's beneficial is determined by what pressures they really have to face. If they have to adapt to eating a pizza-only diet, then it's beneficial. This shows that "beneficial"is a tricky word to define.

Due to the enormous pressure that HIV is putting on African communities, a few individuals that can survive HIV have been left standing, and this has enabled researchers to fossick around in their blood for what has enabled them to survive. This is typically some mutational quirk that you might not normally consider to be "healthy", such as masses of killer T cells. But the fact remains that they have survived HIV. This is similar to the sickle cell anaemia mutation which has enabled many Africans to survive malaria. In a zone with no malaria, you would prefer not to have sickle cells, because they are bad. So, they are beneficial, but bad at the same time.

We are not terribly good at identifying mutations that are beneficial, because most of the research is directed at finding and curing disease. We should be looking at why Olympic athletes are winning, and why some people are massively intelligent, but there is not the budget to do so.

It's somewhat weird that creationists think that there are no beneficial mutations, when the technology to find any mutation has only existed in the last few years, and it's still not being directed at the task of finding interesting enhancements, because this would be considered "eugenics", and therefore Nazi-bad.

I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2012, 01:30:41 PM »
Even though Shin isn't here anymore, I decided it was good practice to answer these 'questions'.

1º Why are monkeys still here?
Because evolution isn't magic, no matter what you learned from Star Trek.  All members of a species do not evolve at the same time, and if they're geographically separated, then the changes add up.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
2º Why is the universe so complex?
It isn't.  Most of the universe is very simple and bland, nearly-empty space.  You may have noticed that there's a lot more space than stuff.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
3º Why women?
Because bisexual reproduction tends to work better than asexual reproduction once you get above the cellular level.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
4º Why the necessity for food?
All organisms require energy to survive.  Food is simply a convenient way to obtain such energy.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
5º Why is there right from wrong/good from evil?
This has nothing to do with evolution in the first place.  Right/wrong and good/evil are human inventions.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
6º Why emotions & consciousness/why didn't we remain like the animals(unable to choose right from wrong)?
Animals have emotions and consciousness.  Furthermore, animals have some decision-making ability.  Outdoor housecats will often share their prey with other cats and humans, for example.  They don't have to do that.  Not all animals can do this, of course, and some animals have a greater capacity for emotions, consciousness, and decision-making.  This clearly shows that it's an evolutionary development, since it's not unique to humans.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
7º Why ability to reproduce?
Because organisms attempt to propagate their genes.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
8º Why is there only one habitable planet?
That we know of.  We only really know about a couple dozen planets, out of trillions spread across billions of galaxies.  So it's extremely premature to conclude that there's only one habitable planet.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
9º Why does sex feel so good?
Because organisms that enjoy sex find it easier to reproduce than organisms that do not.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
10º Why are the opposite sexes attracted to each other?
Same answer as the last question, essentially.  No attraction = limited reproduction.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
11º Why do we have dominion over the animals?
We don't.  Humans are just better at manipulating the environment and thus can make changes to it, forcing other animals to adapt to us.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
12º How do you explain Polonium 218?
This has nothing to do with evolution.  Furthermore, the faulty research that led to the 'halo' idea has been rather firmly debunked by now.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
13º Why life/why didn't we remain atoms or rocks or whatever...?
Because atoms have a tendency to combine into molecules, and those molecules have a tendency to combine with other molecules, and so on.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
14º Why has macro-evilution never been observed in human history?
Because human history is very short compared to the history of the planet, and the time period where we've been watching for evolutionary changes is far shorter..  It can take thousands of generations for enough changes to accumulate to cause an evolutionary change.  That's tens of thousands of years for humans and most animals.  Plus, we've already seen divergence in animal species, such as breeds of cats and dogs.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
15º Why is the oldest tree only 4000 years old(coinciding with the flood)?
There are trees which are older.  The only reason other people gave different answers as to the age of the oldest tree is because they have differing information.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
16º Where are all the transitional fossils from the millions & billions & gazillions of animals & humans that were supposedly evolving over millions & billions & gazillions of years?
You mean ever fossil that's ever been formed?  They're all transitional.  By the way, fossil formation is pretty rare.  The remains of most organisms are scavenged pretty efficiently.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
17º Why can no example be given for a single genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the beneficial information in the genome?
The majority of mutations do increase the information in the genome.  Most of them are neutral in scope.  There have been examples observed of beneficial changes, such as an E.coli strain which could consume citrate (which E.coli in general cannot do).

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
18º Can someone document just one 100% verifiable transitionary fossil that proves that one species actually changed into another completely different species?
There is no such thing as a crocoduck.  It takes a lot of small changes to add up to a big one, and you can't really point to a single one and say, "that one is the completely new species", because it'll only differ a little bit from its predecessors.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
19º What about the population problem with evilution?
There is no such thing.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
20º How did new biochemical pathways(which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence) originate?
Through evolution.  Mutations which caused those new pathways to form, if they worked, they got passed on to descendants.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
21º How do you explain the Fibonacci sequence/the number "e" & the number Pi?
This is completely irrelevant to evolution.  Furthermore, the Fibonacci sequence is ordered, while pi is irrational (there is no order to the sequence of digits)

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
22º Why do all humans, at least once in their life, wonder about a supreme being?
Humans have good imaginations and are good at recognizing patterns (even ones that don't exist).

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
&... BAM! Poor little skeptics... I am so very sorry for this. I didn't want to create this thread, lest I should embarass you. But hey! u should have thought about that beforehand. Ever heard the saying : "be careful what u wish for?"
If that was your best effort, I honestly feel sorry for you.

Quote from: SHIN KAIRI
PS : I, & only I, will decide on the validity of each person's answer. I wasn't going to create this thread but since someone clearly wanted to be embarassed, I shall create this same thread on the other 2 forums. I have a feeling this thread will remain at the top of the list for a looong time... I'll understand, if from now on, all the heathens of this forum hate me.
Nope.  As I said before, you can only decide what you're willing to accept, but you don't get to determine validity.

Offline Garja

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2012, 06:18:21 PM »
Was shin banned?
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2012, 09:42:18 PM »
Was shin banned?

yes.  he was unable to behave like an adult.
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Offline GamerGirl

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2012, 09:54:39 PM »
Shin Kairi, I see that you've become somewhat of a plague here, ATT and IGI.

Sincere question though:

Why quote Nietzsche in your signature?

Edit:  Based on this...

Was shin banned?

yes.  he was unable to behave like an adult.

Never mind my question! Sorry... I can go ask him on the other forums I suppose.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 09:57:40 PM by GamerGirl »

Offline Garja

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Re: Where SHIN KAIRI explains why the theory of evolution sucks!
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2012, 11:25:08 PM »
Was shin banned?

yes.  he was unable to behave like an adult.

And thats after a few week of my personal intervention to try to get him to do just that.  I cant say its surprising however.  Believe it or not, the Shin you saw here was actually significantly better than a couple months ago.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin