Preppers

[Nick]

Anybody been following these people?  They seem to be in the news a lot and I think there is a TV program about them.  Long ago we use to look at people like this and think they were batty.  They apparently figured out how to multiply.  I keep thinking about Jim Jones without the religious angle to it.

[jetson]

I've watched a few episodes.  I decided it reminded me too much of hoarders.

It's sort of interesting, in some ways.  Overall, these people are generally missing a few brain cells, IMO. 

However, I see no reason why a family shouldn't keep extra supplies around for power outages, and other natural disaster/emergencies.  But that does NOT mean one needs to learn how to make your own bullets, or bury a steel box underground.

[Nick]

Yeah, kind of MAD MAX like.

[Quesi]

I am fascinated by them.  They stand against everything that I work for in my life.  I work for cooperation, inclusion, community.  They spend their lives fearing disaster, and planning to make sure no one gets their stuff. 

Now there is a difference between "being prepared" and prepping.  As hurricane Sandy approached, I had lots of flashlights with batteries, lots of bottled water to drink, filled the bathtub with water to flush the toilet if the electricity went out, and lots of food my daughter and I could eat that did not require cooking. I also had a "go bag" in case the roof blew off, with passports and cash and snacks and plastic and random stuff.  Fortunately, none of my preparations were necessary. 

But in other neighborhoods, folks were not so lucky.  And you know what?  Communities banded together.  People with resources shared them. 

This is what the period following a disaster should look like:











Communities helping communities.  Not little bands hording supplies and shooting anyone who is hungry. 

[screwtape]

I decided it reminded me too much of hoarders.

I am enthralled by hoarders.

But that does NOT mean one needs to ... bury a steel box underground.

I'm on the verge of this.  due to the number of armed right wing psychos, I'm considering buying me and the missus a set of matching shotguns.[1]  I'm also considering taking some other precautions I would have thought excessive a few years ago.

1.	specifically, this one --> http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-autoloading-930-special-purpose-tactical-5-shot/85336  badass, no?

[jetson]

screw, you may be on to something.  Given the current atmosphere around the school shooting, I'm afraid we may be headed back to the wild wild west.

Let's hope we can get Satan out of the white house soon, and maybe curb the apocalypse a bit!

[Nick]

Well, I guess you need to prepare yourself in case those zombies come back.

[Quesi]

Preppers are, almost by definition, xenophobic. 

And I wonder how many preppers appreciate the irony of the Nancy Lanza case.  The guns that she hoarded, (so that in the event of a disaster, she could shoot hungry strangers who might covet her food), were the guns that were used by her own son to kill her. 

[ParkingPlaces]

I just saw the term for the first time the other day, but we've had preppers her in the inland Northwest for decades. Most of them are racist bastards that think blacks and Mexicans are about to take over the world.

I'd rather die than live like that.

[Quesi]

I just saw the term for the first time the other day, but we've had preppers her in the inland Northwest for decades. Most of them are racist bastards that think blacks and Mexicans are about to take over the world.

I'd rather die than live like that.

Me too.

I've lived through disasters, and I have seen the best of humanity in the aftermath. 

[none]

Anybody been following these people?  They seem to be in the news a lot and I think there is a TV program about them.  Long ago we use to look at people like this and think they were batty.  They apparently figured out how to multiply.  I keep thinking about Jim Jones without the religious angle to it.

evolution of language.
compartmentalization.
atheist racist preppers those muther fuckers are the ones you got to watch out for.
they will fuck muthers and not give a......monogamous thought about it.
better pair them up carefully IMO.

[kardula]

However, I see no reason why a family shouldn't keep extra supplies around for power outages, and other natural disaster/emergencies.  But that does NOT mean one needs to learn how to make your own bullets, or bury a steel box underground.

This is how I feel about it. I started looking up prepper stuff recently after going through a massive power outage this summer and sandy in late october. Most of the prepper stuff seems to come down to people truly believing in total anarchy and the government taking over and we need to protect ourselves and survive. I'm playing the odds on that one and simply having some extra water and dried good. More like a boy scout than a "prepper." I will admit that it's the bullet hoarders that really scare me.  Nothing wrong with shooting for fun or owning guns, but who really needs "10k bullets for each weapon when SHTF?"

[jetson]

I would probably find a way to check out if the SHTF.  Either that or make sure I'm on the right side of the fan!

[kindred]

However, I see no reason why a family shouldn't keep extra supplies around for power outages, and other natural disaster/emergencies.  But that does NOT mean one needs to learn how to make your own bullets, or bury a steel box underground.

This is how I feel about it. I started looking up prepper stuff recently after going through a massive power outage this summer and sandy in late october. Most of the prepper stuff seems to come down to people truly believing in total anarchy and the government taking over and we need to protect ourselves and survive. I'm playing the odds on that one and simply having some extra water and dried good. More like a boy scout than a "prepper." I will admit that it's the bullet hoarders that really scare me.  Nothing wrong with shooting for fun or owning guns, but who really needs "10k bullets for each weapon when SHTF?"

Because desperate people will steal from you to survive? The most efficient way of stopping thieves isn't protecting yourself from each and everyone but dishing out disproportionate retribution and letting THE FEAR of your wrath deter thievery rather than actually wasting energy having to protect yourself from every other person who wants you stuff.

Sure its inhumane but it is EFFICIENT.

[Jag]

^^^ And if you display the mangled corpses prominently around your property, you shouldn't have to rampage very often either. MORE efficiency!

[Nick]

Heads on sticks.  Vlad the Impaler did that.  Keep people away for a long time.

[Bagheera]

One part of me thinks that preparing for the worst case scenario is understandable, within reason.

Let's say a massive storm knocks out power to your city while snowing you in. One can only assume that in all your preparations for doomsday, you've adequately prepared for such emergencies that they are merely inconveniences. Being over-prepared in such emergencies don't really harm you.

Let's say an asteroid hits the earth. Or someone does start a nuclear exchange. Or a volcano somewhere goes Krakatoa on a larger scale. If there is a collapse of social order, even if its temporary, having the tools necessary to feed and defend oneself would be handy. Just because none of these events is frequent or recent doesn't mean they can't or won't happen. Normally I'd say "hey, if you have the resources to devote to this preparation, then why not?"

Except than then I wonder: when SHTF (just enough that social order disintegrates, but not quite enough for annihilation), how much preparation is being put into actually helping preserve or rebuild social order? Being able to protect yourself is good, okay; are they preparing for a role in directing recovery, rebuilding infrastructure, protecting others, contributing (as in the pictures cited below)? What, exactly, are they prepping for?

And is their prepping simply reactive, not proactive? Do they support NASA and investment in space technology (to detect and avoid that asteroid impact)? Science and research in general (to detect and avoid natural disasters)? When you're prepping for the end of the world, does that include taking steps to avert the end of the world itself?

[bosey926]

     I could respond to two or three of your responses (taking the realistic subject further in depth), but that would lead in to one or two completely separate subjects, so I'll just 'keep the train on the tracks'.  My brother and I have watched a few of these episodes completely in hope of comedic entertainment...and boy did we get more than we were ever asking for.

This one is solid: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/videos/practical-preppers-scorecard-big-al/
     The absolute behemoth of a morbidly obese man you see in the video is pretty well stocked in food and water, as the experts note, but as you begin to laugh at him, he (notice its singular) makes a stew-like concoction of such mammoth proportions that when the analysts say his stock will "..last him approximately 12 months..." you can't help, but burst out loud in to laughter.

This is the favorite, though: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/videos/food-preservation/
     The immediate image tells you that big mamma hasn't worked out in awhile.  I won't spoil this one, but the last line had my brother and I in tears, on the floor laughing our asses off because of how goofy this juthro's priorities are.  Just great.

Edit: English error.

[Bagheera]

I have not seen the show. Is there any attempt at all to find rational 'preppers'? Or is it all the same kind of freakshow?

I do find the idea of someone who is morbidly obese putting their energy into preparing for the end of the world fascinating; shouldn't a physical fitness regimen now be top of the list of practical and vital preparations for the end of civilization?

[kindred]

Heads on sticks.  Vlad the Impaler did that.  Keep people away for a long time.

Not applicable. The social climate of today forces you to be more subtle about things. The social contract is far too universal nowadays. One can no longer justify murder by saying the victims were outsiders or foreigners.

[bosey926]

I have not seen the show. Is there any attempt at all to find rational 'preppers'? Or is it all the same kind of freakshow?

I do find the idea of someone who is morbidly obese putting their energy into preparing for the end of the world fascinating; shouldn't a physical fitness regimen now be top of the list of practical and vital preparations for the end of civilization?

     I remember this one: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/videos/spider-hole/, where I believe the gentleman is an ex-sniper from the Vietnam War.  He has the right ideas.  "Retreat and live to fight another day" is what he says at the end of the little clip. 
     In other portions of his episode, I recall him having a mass amount of practical homegrown food in old-school glass jars, also spatially placed through two or three locations on his property.  All of them, though, were seemingly (if I am remembering correctly) in mini-bomb shelter-like structures. 
     The main point is, he is the only one I don't recall showcasing his stockpiles of ammunition and respective firearms.  He was more of an intelligence-based 'flight first, fight if necessary' kind of guy. 

[ParkingPlaces]

I just saw the term for the first time the other day, but we've had preppers her in the inland Northwest for decades. Most of them are racist bastards that think blacks and Mexicans are about to take over the world.

I'd rather die than live like that.

Me too.

I've lived through disasters, and I have seen the best of humanity in the aftermath.

I of course agree. But the response of people differs greatly when they want the disaster. And most of the folks around here yearn for the big one, whatever the "big one" may be.


Where a true disaster/calamity/big problem is oft times dealt with via exactly the humanity you experienced after Sandy, bringing out the best in people. But a "desired" calamity brings out the worst, both before and after the event. And it is the latter that we have here in Montana and Northern Idaho.
(I am using "desired" in the sense that they want the world they are afraid of to be true so that they can brag that they were right. They want the world they are afraid of to start happening so that they can survive the fray and end up leaders of the world after everyone else dies in the race riots, etc. It isn't the same thing as desiring a new iPad.)

[shnozzola]

I like the idea of buying the unused underground missile silos, making condos, a  gym, a pool, restaurant, etc, and making money from it as a novelty hotel until the big day arrives.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57441345-1/apocalypse-proof-condos-already-sold-out/

[Nick]

There are a lot of those around where I live.  Not that nice.

[kindred]

@parkingplaces

I can sort of understand that desire though. We live in a world where merit is second to every other factor when it comes to success, where people with connections will almost always beat you at whatever it is you  try to do. A disaster, at the very least, make the world a bit more fair in a certain sense but that is pretty much where it sorta takes off and gets crazy to me.

Isn't a disaster too high a price to achieve a meritocracy? What is the point of a fair world if there isn't enough resources to actually do something. My economics professor summed it quite nicely to me "I'd take an unfair system if it would mean everybody would be millionaires rather than have a meritocratic world where incompetent people are left off to die and successful people are billionaires, fairness isn't worth the deaths of so many people "

[wright]

One part of me thinks that preparing for the worst case scenario is understandable, within reason.

Sure. My immediate family (Mom, sis and her family) all live within a few minutes' walk of each other. We have a centralized store of preserved food, sealed water and camping gear. Here in California we think more in terms of earthquakes than social collapse, but the same basics apply.

Except than then I wonder: when SHTF (just enough that social order disintegrates, but not quite enough for annihilation), how much preparation is being put into actually helping preserve or rebuild social order? Being able to protect yourself is good, okay; are they preparing for a role in directing recovery, rebuilding infrastructure, protecting others, contributing (as in the pictures cited below)? What, exactly, are they prepping for?

Precisely. Unfortunately, the more paranoid sorts of preppers sell the most air time, so that's the kind who are more visible in mainstream media. As most disasters show, the reaction of a lot of people is not to huddle behind makeshift barricades in the aftermath, clutching their weapons and canned food, but to go out and help, often at some risk to themselves.

We're a social species. The social contract does not disintegrate as readily as the apocalypse-pornographers believe. While there are always those who will exploit such situations (and just a few can cause a lot of damage and grief, no argument), others react more positively, as Quesi has pointed out.

And is their prepping simply reactive, not proactive? Do they support NASA and investment in space technology (to detect and avoid that asteroid impact)? Science and research in general (to detect and avoid natural disasters)? When you're prepping for the end of the world, does that include taking steps to avert the end of the world itself?

Nail on the head. To be purely reactionary is ridiculously short-sighted. Plan for shortages and take steps to make sure those shortfalls never come about. Be part of the solution for your nation, your community. Make sure infrastructure is maintained and improved (which may well mean higher taxes). Support research that leads to better earthquake prediction, climate-change modeling, cheaper ways to get payloads into orbit. Don't act in isolation.

[ParkingPlaces]

@parkingplaces

I can sort of understand that desire though. We live in a world where merit is second to every other factor when it comes to success, where people with connections will almost always beat you at whatever it is you  try to do. A disaster, at the very least, make the world a bit more fair in a certain sense but that is pretty much where it sorta takes off and gets crazy to me.

Isn't a disaster too high a price to achieve a meritocracy? What is the point of a fair world if there isn't enough resources to actually do something. My economics professor summed it quite nicely to me "I'd take an unfair system if it would mean everybody would be millionaires rather than have a meritocratic world where incompetent people are left off to die and successful people are billionaires, fairness isn't worth the deaths of so many people "

Of course it is. I don't agree with it. The loons around here with bunkers and guns (which they paid for by trading in their brains) are like woodland street gangs. Scary.


Though I don't have a better answer (well, I do, but only a certain type of person could tolerate it), our economic system sucks big time and is inherently unfair. If we were all millionaires, the price of bread would go to 10 million a loaf overnight and within a few days the 99%/1% rift would reemerge and my rent would be atrocious again. So we can't fix the world by fixing the system. We have to invent something new and hit people over the head with it. Which, sadly, has never worked before, so I'm pretty sure it won't work in the future either.


I'm getting old. I'll probably be dead in the next ten years, so I'm not going to worry too much about it. Other than I promise not to add to your problems.

[Nam]

OP,

Those people have been watching too many Kevin Costner films.



-Nam