Author Topic: When exactly did God lose control?  (Read 361 times)

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Offline 12 Monkeys

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When exactly did God lose control?
« on: December 17, 2012, 07:55:52 PM »
 God has lost control of his subjects(mankind) many times,even to the point of killing the population.  When did God actually lose control of his kingdom and why?. Satan rises up against him,but how could an ommni-everything being lose the battle? How exactly did he give up control of humanity to Satan?

 The world is no better or worse off with Satan or God in control,how did God lose?
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 08:02:54 PM »
Well, as a fellow atheist I cannot answer your question from any religious perspective.

But I can from a psychological one.

He lost control of satan the day he and the rebel were invented. What good would his story be if he didn't have an antagonist. Nobody would read it.

It is similar to the Jesus thing. Jesus had to die in some horrible way. He couldn't die for our sins of old age, in bed, when 85 years old. That wouldn't serve the story well at all.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nick

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 08:21:40 PM »
Lets face it.  Our God is not a very good one.  Kind of God Challenged.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Jandrew111

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 08:51:30 PM »
God started losing control the day I learned and contemplated the meaning of "intellectual honesty" and how important it is to the question that all human being should ask themselves " Is it important to me that what I believe is true?" In addition to this foundational question to learn and understand the best overall process for discovering what we can be reasonably certain is real vs fantasy. The mind then clears itself of an incessant amount of clutter and the real search can then proceed..........discovering what is most likely true is where the real power lies....

Offline SHIN KAIRI

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 08:52:11 PM »
If I w8 long enough, do you guys think we'll see a theist respong to the OP?? Apart from me ofc...

Presuppositionalism wins everytime

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Offline jetson

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 08:57:33 PM »
If I w8 long enough, do you guys think we'll see a theist respong to the OP?? Apart from me ofc...

Let's hear your honest opinion.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 11:16:12 PM »
Well, as a fellow atheist I cannot answer your question from any religious perspective.

But I can from a psychological one.

He lost control of satan the day he and the rebel were invented. What good would his story be if he didn't have an antagonist. Nobody would read it.

It is similar to the Jesus thing. Jesus had to die in some horrible way. He couldn't die for our sins of old age, in bed, when 85 years old. That wouldn't serve the story well at all.
I hear you loud and clear.....how can God come to the rescue if everything is perfect.....but how can God be perfect if everything is not?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline IAmFirst

Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2012, 07:06:28 AM »
Any creature that can create "all things good and evil" seems like he was trouble from the start.

The real answer to your question would be: As soon as man created god. ;)
2nd of all, if all you believe in is peer-reviewed papers, you won't go very far in life...

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 08:22:08 AM »
When did God actually lose control of his kingdom and why?

Well, its all "free will" of course.  A world where everyone could do nothing other than the right thing, and never knowing the difference, would of course be terrible.  Not sure exactly why, but it MUST be terrible, right?  Because Yahweh decided that everyone loving him, and everyone being guaranteed heaven, was not good enough.....for him.

Because the people involved would never know any different, so it would all be the same to him.  So the one and only being that would benefit from man having free will.....was Yahweh.  So Yahweh gave man free will - despite knowing for certain all the problems this would lead to, and knowing for certain that it would mean some people not getting to heaven.

So Yahweh grants free will so that some people will choose to love him - a colossal ego stroke, and never mind the severe downside for those who choose against him.  Actually, wait - before "free will", there would have BEEN no downside - why would Yahweh create the punishment when nobody could possibly go there?

So Yahweh not only created free will to make himself feel more loved, he ALSO set up exactly what the punishment would be.  It could have been simply death and straight to nonexistence, it could have been a slap, and then entry to heaven.....but no.  For daring to not love a person for giving the "gift" of the exchange of 100% heaven for a lesser percentage, Yahweh decided to make the downside as horrific as possible.

I don't understand why, though.  If Yahweh is indeed the most wonderful and cuddly and all-round-smashing chap that he wants us to believe, how COULD anyone not love him?  Why does Yahweh need the big stick, when the carrot is (apparently) so damn good?

We would ALL be in heaven, guaranteed - if Yahweh hadn't decided that wasn't enough for him.
Those who didn't choose him would never know they'd lost out - if Yahweh hadn't decided that wasn't enough for him.

It's a puzzler all right.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2012, 08:36:11 AM »
If I w8 long enough, do you guys think we'll see a theist respong to the OP?? Apart from me ofc...

Yeah. Let's hear what the Bible has to say on this complex subject.

Wait.. How about what the Apocrypha has to say...

Or, how about just make some shit up.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline stuffin

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2012, 02:11:26 PM »
God never really had control of me, although there was an extended period where I thought he did.

I'm sure there have always been rebels in the flock, but the punishments for going against god were severe in the olden days and they were an effective deterrent. It has taken a long time, and it will take more time but there will be a day when god has control over no one.
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Offline Nick

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2012, 02:15:21 PM »
I have a buddy who's kid made his 1st confession the other day.  That is how the Catholic Church maintains control...well, one of their many ways.  Anyhow, the kid is like a 1st grader.  He is a hand full if you know what I mean.  I just laughed and asked if the priest asked for a break after the 1st couple hours of this kid confessing.  Or gave up on the priesthood altogether. lol
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When exactly did God lose control?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2012, 07:29:44 PM »
I have a buddy who's kid made his 1st confession the other day.  That is how the Catholic Church maintains control...well, one of their many ways.  Anyhow, the kid is like a 1st grader.  He is a hand full if you know what I mean.  I just laughed and asked if the priest asked for a break after the 1st couple hours of this kid confessing.  Or gave up on the priesthood altogether. lol
or had sexual fantasies while listening?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)