Author Topic: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!  (Read 3560 times)

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Offline Jontom10

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2012, 03:44:02 PM »
Shin

Why did your God let these innocent children die ?

Did your God give them an option ? Did he send one of his angels to ask "hey kid, rather than grow up and experience all that life has to offer would you rather be terrified and then shot to death by a mental nasty bastard I created?"

Why does your God hate the parents of these children so much ?

Shin, these children aren't in heaven. They are dead. Their poor lifeless bodies are now rotting in a morgue whereas in reality they should be having an early bath and bed time to get up for school tomorrow.
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Offline SHIN KAIRI

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2012, 03:46:31 PM »
SHIN

a) You can introduce yourself here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,17.0.html

There is no three post requirement for that section.

 ;) Thx
Presuppositionalism wins everytime

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Offline SHIN KAIRI

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2012, 03:52:35 PM »
Shin

Why did your God let these innocent children die ?
People die dude... all the time... There is no "why" or "why not" here.

Why does your God hate the parents of these children so much ?
I don't know what u're talking about... Yeshua doesn't hate anyone.

Shin, these children aren't in heaven.
Yes they are.

They are dead. Their poor lifeless bodies are now rotting in a morgue whereas in reality they should be having an early bath and bed time to get up for school tomorrow.
Were you to die, then yes, you would be dead right now, having returned to the dust from which you were formed while your body would be "rotting in a morgue".
Presuppositionalism wins everytime

Nietzsche : "Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

Making atheists cry since 1991

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Offline none

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2012, 03:54:12 PM »
Shin

Why did your God let these innocent children die ?
People die dude... all the time... There is no "why" or "why not" here.

Why does your God hate the parents of these children so much ?
I don't know what u're talking about... Yeshua doesn't hate anyone.

Shin, these children aren't in heaven.
Yes they are.

They are dead. Their poor lifeless bodies are now rotting in a morgue whereas in reality they should be having an early bath and bed time to get up for school tomorrow.
Were you to die, then yes, you would be dead right now, having returned to the dust from which you were formed while your body would be "rotting in a morgue".
geesh.. all I asked was where your god came from....

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2012, 04:23:24 PM »
I hope what I say here will contribute to a better image of my GOD.

Children are blameless before The LORD YHWH. All the little kids that have died since the foundation of the world went directly to Heaven. Babies & children(until a certain age) are "without sin". They thus do not have the penalty of death attached to them. They have not broken(were unable to) any of the commandments, therefore do not have to taste death.

I will introduce myself as soon as the mods let me create my own thread. I think every new person has to post at least 3 satisfactory posts beforehand...
Blessings
Show us where it states that in any of your Holy books and I am positive one of the people on this forum will show you a dozen places where that is contradicted.
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Offline Jontom10

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2012, 04:26:43 PM »
Ahh rehash of Jesus and the bible

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_%28name%29

Done to death. I shan't feed the troll.

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2012, 10:29:33 AM »
Amen to that, ParkingPlaces - I stopped paying attention to Facebook as soon as I realized that it was essentially just used to peddle polarizing political and religious memes with about as much rigor as bumper stickers and rave about how you just had a sandwich.

add in cat pictures, cyber begging, and advertisements and that is what highly limits the utility of Facebook, the ability to interact and keep with poeple gets lost in the noise. I haven't given up on it, but it is edging into that territory.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Online Hatter23

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2012, 10:35:29 AM »

"Which of the thousands of Gods are we praying to? Now would this be the powerless impotent God that let it happen or is it the pure evil God that decreed that this will happen as everything happens to Gods design ?"

Always brings the most venomous hate filled tirades my way.

People hate it when you point out the reasonable consequences of their unreasonable beliefs
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline none

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2012, 10:51:28 AM »
Amen to that, ParkingPlaces - I stopped paying attention to Facebook as soon as I realized that it was essentially just used to peddle polarizing political and religious memes with about as much rigor as bumper stickers and rave about how you just had a sandwich.

add in cat pictures, cyber begging, and advertisements and that is what highly limits the utility of Facebook, the ability to interact and keep with poeple gets lost in the noise. I haven't given up on it, but it is edging into that territory.
sometimes I turn off images for facebook.
it helps sometimes.
I get overstimulated by facebook.
and it would help if there was a button to suppress individual images.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2012, 02:09:48 PM »
I'm frustrated.

My Facebook is flooded with messages regarding the horrible events surrounding the children today. Which is fine. It is a terrible thing. I like that people are thinking of the kids and their families.

What I can't stand is preachy-ness. Lately, I've found myself fighting against people who are posting religious stuff on their walls. In a perfect world, people wouldn't get mad and attack, I mean, Facebook is free range - if you're going to share something, expect SOME opinion. I try to unsubscribe to these people since that's an option. There's so many of them. All religious. All Catholics.

Anyway, I'm trying to keep my fingers shut, but one lady I had graduated College with posted this:



It strikes me that the sentiments are anti-Christian. It seems to present the reality that God is powerless before Congress.

Why should an all powerful God be unable to enter a classroom? Why does he obey the laws of the USA but not, other countries? I remember a school shooting in Finland and one in German.

Where was God when Anders Brevik went wild?

However, back to the T-shirt - the Tea Party brand of capitalism requires that there is no opportunity missed to make a dollar - If any of you want any money making ideas and have no scruples, try "Rumpus Room Design, now that you have that extra space..." :(
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2012, 02:16:46 PM »
I don't know what u're talking about... Yeshua doesn't hate anyone.


Shin,

Why don't you sit down and read a Bible for yourself? That way, you won't make silly mistakes about God. You see, it looks to us all here that your 'god' is nothing more than Shin. He agrees with you, but as a CHristian, you should agree with him.

God does hate people... just like you hate some people (Now don't tell me that you are better than God and don't hate anyone...

Here is a list of people God hates:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8 ), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8 ), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8 ), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8 ), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8 ), All Liars (Revelation 21:8 )
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2012, 09:03:46 PM »

This seems as good a thread as any for this...

A forwarded e-mail I got this evening. From someone who found it "beautiful and touching"

Between the nauseatingly bad "poetry", the coma-inducing saccharine sentimentality and the sheer offensiveness of the platitudes, I'll spare you all but the first lines...it does go on a bit, but I couldn't take reading much further than this:

Quote
"twas' 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38
when 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven's gate.
their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air.
They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.
they were filled with such joy, they didn't know what to say.
they remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.
"where are we?" asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse.
"this is heaven." declared a small boy. "we're spending Christmas at God's house."
when what to their wondering eyes did appear,
but Jesus, their savior, the children gathered near." - anonymous as far as I know (I wouldn't want to admit to it!).


Offline none

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2012, 09:14:10 PM »
jynnan tonnix, I got the amended version.
the conclusion was something like..
Quote
Peacefully they walked into the darkness, and Jesus said, "I am the light."

Offline SHIN KAIRI

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2012, 09:22:23 PM »
I don't know what u're talking about... Yeshua doesn't hate anyone.


Here is a list of people God hates:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8 ), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8 ), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8 ), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8 ), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8 ), All Liars (Revelation 21:8 )
No... that is a list of people who have been righteously judged for their sin. He does not hate "them". He hates the sin.
Presuppositionalism wins everytime

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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2012, 09:30:35 PM »
Yup, something like that. Urgh. Does this mean the blasted thing's gonna go viral?

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2012, 09:43:55 PM »

This seems as good a thread as any for this...

A forwarded e-mail I got this evening. From someone who found it "beautiful and touching"

<snip>
I really don't think anything could trivialize the sheer horror of this massacre more than all of these religious people saying and implying that although the children were killed, they are in a better place. I really think that is morally offensive. If people want to believe that themselves, because they refuse to cope with the sad reality of violence, and refuse to confront the problem of evil, fine, but they should do it in their closets, just like their savior said to do. If my son were murdered and someone Christian told me that at least he was in a better place, their pain would be legendary. The only thing more offensive I think would be to be told that your child was in hell.

I firmly believe that we, as a civilization, need to leave religion behind permanently. I don't mean some cleansing of religious people, just unplugging them from the Matrix, because that is what it feels like to be awakened from the ignorant stupor of religion. Once you see the system as the awful, cruel, exploitive parasite that it is, you realize that you can't allow your fellow humans to continue to be subject to this, and also can't allow them to destroy civilization. If only there were a pill to cure religion.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2012, 11:21:00 PM »

This seems as good a thread as any for this...

A forwarded e-mail I got this evening. From someone who found it "beautiful and touching"

<snip>
I really don't think anything could trivialize the sheer horror of this massacre more than all of these religious people saying and implying that although the children were killed, they are in a better place. I really think that is morally offensive. If people want to believe that themselves, because they refuse to cope with the sad reality of violence, and refuse to confront the problem of evil, fine, but they should do it in their closets, just like their savior said to do. If my son were murdered and someone Christian told me that at least he was in a better place, their pain would be legendary. The only thing more offensive I think would be to be told that your child was in hell.

I firmly believe that we, as a civilization, need to leave religion behind permanently. I don't mean some cleansing of religious people, just unplugging them from the Matrix, because that is what it feels like to be awakened from the ignorant stupor of religion. Once you see the system as the awful, cruel, exploitive parasite that it is, you realize that you can't allow your fellow humans to continue to be subject to this, and also can't allow them to destroy civilization. If only there were a pill to cure religion.
If all who die(good Christians) are in heaven then the shooter was just part of God's plan....and if they believe the children are in "heaven" there is no reason to be sad....to mourn yes,to be sad no.
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Offline IAmFirst

Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2012, 06:52:24 AM »
I mentioned a reason like this in another thread: Tragedy ups the business. Something unexplained happens, and it's absolutely terrible. Let's say you only go to a church on Easter and Xmas. You ask the pastor, "Why?" He says something along the BS lines of working in mysterious ways, or togetherness is what we need, blah, blah.

Now that same somewhat agnostic person is there every week with a $20 in the hand ready for the collection plate.

It's no different selling life insurance after a terrorist attack.
2nd of all, if all you believe in is peer-reviewed papers, you won't go very far in life...

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Offline stuffin

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2012, 02:28:36 PM »
If all who die(good Christians) are in heaven then the shooter was just part of God's plan....and if they believe the children are in "heaven" there is no reason to be sad....to mourn yes,to be sad no.

I would like to see all the priest, preachers, rabbis and voodoo counselors go face to face with each parent who lost a child and tell them;

There is no reason for you to be sad, your child is in heaven with jesus.

DISCLAIMER: I realize rabbis and voodoo counselors aren't into jesus

BTW, what a sucky way to get to heaven.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline none

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2012, 02:36:55 PM »
hahaha
and they could say we'll give you the tools so you can send us to the same place!

Offline none

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2012, 02:47:46 PM »
hahaha
and they could say we'll give you the tools so you can send us to the same place!
and then they could supply them with those tools...
bullets in the face...whoda thunk...?
shit, afterlife...?
who can't wait?
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Offline Ambivalent

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2012, 10:56:38 PM »

This seems as good a thread as any for this...

A forwarded e-mail I got this evening. From someone who found it "beautiful and touching"

Between the nauseatingly bad "poetry", the coma-inducing saccharine sentimentality and the sheer offensiveness of the platitudes, I'll spare you all but the first lines...it does go on a bit, but I couldn't take reading much further than this:

Quote
"twas' 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38
when 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven's gate.
their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air.
They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.
they were filled with such joy, they didn't know what to say.
they remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.
"where are we?" asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse.
"this is heaven." declared a small boy. "we're spending Christmas at God's house."
when what to their wondering eyes did appear,
but Jesus, their savior, the children gathered near." - anonymous as far as I know (I wouldn't want to admit to it!).

Someone had posted that on Facebook! I wanted to be like; "Uh...if even one of those kids has a different Faith or their parents aren't believers, that horrid poem would strike deep."

Face the reality of death. If that perspective works, than why are so many Christians even pro-life? Heck, people should be getting abortions left, right and center - instant ticket to paradise! What would be the whole purpose of Earth if you could merely skip the entire thing? Furthermore, it implies that the gun man was actually doing them a favor! "Oh, what a great Christmas gift which you have given these children!"

How can anybody be evil in the Christian stance if everyone is merely God's soldiers harboring God's will? It just doesn't make any sense.

Like stated before, God shouldn't have to adhere to man-made laws. These people avoid the whole problem and replace it with a lack of God. Haven't they witnessed the wars cast ahead in the name of God? It's also incredibly ignorant to claim their own God is the only one who could intervene. It's impossible for them to comprehend that their own Faith isn't the only one, and that had they been born somewhere else, they would probably be defending some other different Faith, which they believe was the 'correct' one.

*smacks head*

I just want religious people to stop exploiting DEAD children. It's disgusting. It's even more gross because they don't want to look into real issues, like what had caused this insanity.


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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2012, 10:10:05 AM »


I just want religious people to stop exploiting DEAD children. It's disgusting. It's even more gross because they don't want to look into real issues, like what had caused this insanity.

Yeah, my Mom sent me the same poem. I glanced at it and deleted it.

But religious people are not going to stop exploiting dead children, ever. Religion is based on not thinking and going with emotion, and dead kiddies get the emotions to flow and the brain to turn off.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2012, 10:31:16 AM »
Yeah, my Mom sent me the same poem. I glanced at it and deleted it.

I saw it a few days ago on The Thinking Atheist's Facebook page.  I was pretty pissed.  If I were the parent of one of the children who had been killed and someone forwarded that poem to me, I would want to punch the person in the mouth.  And I'm not a violent person, either... I haven't even raised my voice in about sixteen years.
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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2012, 12:11:48 PM »
Yeah, my Mom sent me the same poem. I glanced at it and deleted it.

I saw it a few days ago on The Thinking Atheist's Facebook page.  I was pretty pissed.  If I were the parent of one of the children who had been killed and someone forwarded that poem to me, I would want to punch the person in the mouth.  And I'm not a violent person, either... I haven't even raised my voice in about sixteen years.

My reaction to it was similar, and I (mabe mistakenly) said so on a mailing list I belong to when someone posted it with the preface "awesome poem...so touching!"

Of course, that probably didn't go over well. Mostly I got roundly ignored, but one of the ladies, who is actually a pretty good friend (and born again Christian) did chastise me, and let me know that such a poem would, in fact, be something very comforting to those who "believed in the almighty and in the afterlife". She also said she wished she had never opened my email. So I felt that I should apologize for at least the curtness of my response and explain my reasoning a bit more clearly, and she later answered that she saw my point "to a degree" and we would have to discuss some more. Which is fine, because she's generally quite willing to concede points even though she won't be swayed from her belief. It's just nice to be actually listened to by a fundy, though.

Anyway, it turned out that my main beef with the poem, and the part she actually saw the point of my problem with, lay toward the end of it, so for whoever hasn't seen it yet, I guess I'll have to quote the whole piece of drek again:

Quote

twas' 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38
 when 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven's gate.
 their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air.
 they could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.
 they were filled with such joy, they didn't know what to say.
 they remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.
 "where are we?" asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse.
 "this is heaven." declared a small boy. "we're spending Christmas at God's house."
 when what to their wondering eyes did appear,
 but Jesus, their savior, the children gathered near.
 He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same.
 then He opened His arms and He called them by name.
 and in that moment was joy, that only heaven can bring
 those children all flew into the arms of their King
 and as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace,
 one small girl turned and looked at Jesus' face.
 and as if He could read all the questions she had
 He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of mom and dad."
 then He looked down on earth, the world far below
 He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woe
 then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand,
 "Let My power and presence re-enter this land!"
 "may this country be delivered from the hands of fools"
 "I'm taking back my nation. I'm taking back my schools!"
 then He and the children stood up without a sound.
 "come now my children, let me show you around."
 excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran.
 all displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can.
 and i heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight,
 "in the midst of this darkness, I AM STILL THE LIGHT."
 


This is what I told her:




Sorry...I didn't even mean that in the sense of not having a belief in afterlife/almighty,,,I just couldn't imagine that anyone of any faith who had lost a child in such a brutal, senseless way could see a message like that of the poem as anything but, I don't know....trivializing, I guess. Even if I had huge amounts of faith, I think that as one of those parents, it would have been severely shaken, maybe even shattered...and then the depiction of Jesus stretching out his hand and saying he's simply going to take back his nation and schools? Just like that? If he could do that, why did he allow this massacre? If he couldn't then why is the poem depicting him promising to do that NOW? AFTER these families' losses? Is that something that would really bring them comfort?
 

I don't know. Maybe you are right. I do try to understand the mind of the believer, and I think I do have a reasonable idea of how a person of faith would feel and react in various situations, but in this case, as I said, I feel as though the sheer senselessness of the massacre would deeply rock any faith I had, and I don't know that I'd be ready, so soon afterward, to read something which made my loss, and the loss of the community out to be something which could be bandaged by cliche.



If the poem had at least been well-written, it might have been more powerful and evocative, maybe. Maybe. But it comes off as having been tumbled together with no regard to anything but finding a rhyme, and I think that contributes to the sense of glibness I feel in it. Does that make any sense?

 

Again, sorry for having caused offense. It really wasn't meant that way, and I honestly did feel that this particular poem at this particular time could have come off more as a hurt than a comfort to many of them.













Online Hatter23

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2012, 10:51:40 AM »

. I do try to understand the mind of the believer, and I think I do have a reasonable idea of how a person of faith would feel and react in various situations,

I don't try to understand it. I was there, I was a believer when I was young. The mind of the believer is just about emotion and avoiding the hard reality of life. Even apologists, with there layered tortuous reasoning, at the core are still that: 'I don't want to face up that I and those that I love die, and people who may harm them go unpunished.'
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2012, 11:11:19 AM »
I don't know what u're talking about... Yeshua doesn't hate anyone.


Here is a list of people God hates:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8 ), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8 ), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8 ), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8 ), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8 ), All Liars (Revelation 21:8 )
No... that is a list of people who have been righteously judged for their sin. He does not hate "them". He hates the sin.
and if you take Jesus you are absolved of all sins you commit.....does that sound even remotely sane to you? Sin all you want if you love Jesus.....but if you don't love Jesus he will send you to hell.

 Sounds like God has a complex....and at the very least a mental illness
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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2012, 12:39:06 PM »
Regarding the poem posted by Jinnan Tonnix - I  remember when my mother died I tried to imagine her reuniting with her parents and brother who had died before her.  It was somewhat comforting.  However my mom died of illness not by violence and her death was expected.  I think people who's politcal leanings aren't such that think Obama & the democrats are taking our country to hell might find the end of that poem offensive and annoying.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why when a terrible event happens do people preach?!?!
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2012, 12:41:26 PM »
No... that is a list of people who have been righteously judged for their sin. He does not hate "them". He hates the sin.
No, Shin, that is simply not true. I know you have never read a bible but you really should look at the references I have given. God does hate some people - He says so! Please Read!

I keep hearing people say that God hates sin but loves the sinner. It isn't true. God does not love the sinner and I can prove what I say from the Bible which is, of course, God's Word and to anyone who claims to be a Christian, the final say-so about anything!

"These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." (Proverbs 6:16-19)

Can you read? He hates the person!

There are plenty more verses in the Bible about how God HATES THE SINNER.

Do not be deceived by the lukewarm Christians and their "God hates the sin but loves the sinner"!! The Bible says the Lord HATES certain people and not just the sin!! But He does love the True Christian!

I have had (supposed) born again Christians tell me that I'm talking about the Law of the Old Testament but Jesus said that not one jot or tittle of His law will pass away!! (Matthew 5:18)

The Bible says, "The burden of the Word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi. I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob. And I HATED Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage to waste for the dragons of the wilderness." (Malachi 1:1-3) You read it! GOD HATED ESAU. Its in the Bible!

If someone tells you "God is love", remind him that "love is the fulfilling of the law" (Romans 13:10)

Any enemy of God should be a Christian's enemy too!! I would go so far as to say that if you claim to love enemies of God, you are trying to be holier than God.

In Psalms, David constantly called upon God to destroy the wicked! I have found ten Psalms where David asks God to destroy his enemies (7, 35, 55, 58, 59, 69, 79, 109, 137, 139).

When God destroys the wicked, it is a form of His Grace. God gives Christians grace when He destroys the wicked because when He destroys the wicked, He stops their evil deeds and works. When He kills drug dealers, He saves grown ups and children from drugs. When He kills abortionists, He saves unborn babies lives.

The Bible says that wicked, evil-doers don't learn lessons. "Let favour be showed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness" (2 Cor 26:10); yet, "when thy [God's] judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness" (2 Cor 26:9).

People aren't saved because of God's love. People get saved because they want to escape God's wrath and don't want to be destroyed. Christians should, therefore, ask God to judge and destroy the wicked and evil-doers because their destructions is definitely a form of God's grace.

You need to stop separating sin from the sinner. God judges the sinner! NOT YOU. If you believe that God is just and true, then you must believe that He hates the sin and the sinner.

"God is a just judge and God is angry with the wicked everyday. (Psalms 7:11)

OK, Shin, What do you say?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”