Guns again

[jetson]

Wow.  So that's what a semi-automatic can do?  Pump 3 rounds at 10 different targets, for example?

[Chronos]

I don't think any of my neighbors would fuck with me if I had one of those available.

Did you notice the associated ads?

[ParkingPlaces]

I don't think any of my neighbors would fuck with me if I had one of those available.

Did you notice the associated ads?

You'd better come live where I do, Chronos. I've got a better class of neighbor. No shooting is necessary. It is soooooo much cheaper this way.

[mhaberling]

Every American home should be equipped with a setup like this

No, it ways twenty three pounds and has a poor center of gravity...  The clip is bulky a multiple clip system attached to the weare would be faster and not inheed gun accuracy, for urban combat of the best compromise between accuracy and shot speed is a ACOG scope with a fiber optic recital, lazer is cool but under mounted flashlight is more practical... All of this coupled with a lockable bump stock for optional automatic fire... and you have the optomum home defense weapon.

Trijicon ACOG: 1,059.99
Sauer RM400-16B-EC-OD(actual rifle): 1,099.99
under mount flashlight: 24.99
bump stock: 369.00 (for fully automatic fire)

extra clips not included total comes to... 2553.97 for one top notch home defense / urban combat weapon load out...
Ammo price not specified, however shoots standard NATO rounds so surplus ammo availible...

[ParkingPlaces]

I will always wonder what the fascination with guns is. I know one man who owns literally thousands, and I know others who have dozens. Being as I neither fear for my life or have the hots for ending the lives of others, I guess I'm just in a strange world where lead flying through flesh as hundreds or thousands of feet per second has no appeal.


I'm a positive kind of guy with no need to power trip or hide in a cocoon or pretend I'm invulnerable with a glock strapped to my leg. I guess I should apologize up front for not meeting media stereotypes for being a white male. Maybe I'm gun-gay or something.


I wouldn't spend fifty cents for a bent up tennis racket at a garage sale for the purpose of protecting myself. I have never been able to work up the fear necessary to justify spending money on, well, fear. As I have said before, I would rather die tomorrow in a mugging and never felt fear before that than die of old age with an arsenal at my side and the fear of everything inculcated into my every cell.


I'm not saying that there is nothing dangerous out there. I know there is. I guess I just don't attract it. I've had one bike stolen and the door lock on my car destroyed so that the bad guy could steal an empty daypack. That is all the crime I have suffered. And I can't think of a reason to invest in firepower and sniper scopes if that is all I have to deal with.


I don't have a key for my cottage. There is a lock on the door but I've never used it. I go away for weeks at a time without the least bit of worry about the computers and such inside. Now I'll admit that when I lived on the edge of an inner city ghetto area in the midwest, I did lock my door. But I still didn't give any thought to owning a gun, even though I worked as a volunteer right in the heart of the official poor peoples zone.


I literally didn't think about it once.


So yea, I know that when the revolution starts, I'll get popped on day one. Which is fine because I wouldn't want to hang around for the post-apocalyptic world we all fear anyway. I would dislike Mel Gibson as much as I disliked the guy wearing spiky things all up and down his torso and armed with a crossbow. None of that stuff is of any importance to me.


I value being human. Not seeing how far removed from my natural state I can get.

[shnozzola]

Chris Rock's solution:

http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/4114423/Gun+Control/

[Nick]

Some gun group is offering 200 teachers in Utah free 6 hr. training so they can carry in the classroom.  6 hrs.  That should do it.

Now Ohio is following their example.

I keep thinking back to my teachers K-12 grades.  I can't thing of many I would want armed in the classroom...or at all.

[ParkingPlaces]

Some gun group is offering 200 teachers in Utah free 6 hr. training so they can carry in the classroom.  6 hrs.  That should do it.

Now Ohio is following their example.

I keep thinking back to my teachers K-12 grades.  I can't thing of many I would want armed in the classroom...or at all.

I predict that if we get guns into teachers hands, there wlll be more than 20 accidental deaths a year in schools due to these guns. And if New York policemen can shoot up 15 civilians in a shootout with a bad guy, how many innocents do you suppose the teachers can harm. What with so many available.

[jetson]

I keep thinking back to my teachers K-12 grades.  I can't thing of many I would want armed in the classroom...or at all.

My first grade teacher used to kiss us on the cheek before she put us on the bus ride home.  I guess in this new world she would have frisked us!

[Nick]

I keep thinking back to my teachers K-12 grades.  I can't thing of many I would want armed in the classroom...or at all.

My first grade teacher used to kiss us on the cheek before she put us on the bus ride home.  I guess in this new world she would have frisked us!

No, she would be arrested for inappropriate acts with minors.

[kin hell]

home defence as religion

you don't need to go to church for pews


pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pewpew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pewpew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pewpew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew 

spraying for redemption

praise the load


creating a better world one gun shop at a time

now I feel safe.

[Chronos]

I don't think any of my neighbors would fuck with me if I had one of those available.

Did you notice the associated ads?

You'd better come live where I do, Chronos. I've got a better class of neighbor. No shooting is necessary. It is soooooo much cheaper this way.

But you live in Big Gun Country!

[Chronos]

I will always wonder what the fascination with guns is.

I don't get it, either, but I know people who buy all sorts of crazy things. However, most of their hobbies do not involve collecting things which are designed to rip through human flesh.

I have never been able to work up the fear necessary to justify spending money on, well, fear. As I have said before, I would rather die tomorrow in a mugging and never felt fear before that than die of old age with an arsenal at my side and the fear of everything inculcated into my every cell.

I'm not sure I ever thought about it to that extent, but it is an apt explanation of my thoughts on the matter.

I'm not saying that there is nothing dangerous out there. I know there is. I guess I just don't attract it. I've had one bike stolen and the door lock on my car destroyed so that the bad guy could steal an empty daypack. That is all the crime I have suffered.

I had some ingrate break out the window of my car while it sat on the street in front of my house. He could have only had the intent to steal the car, but the shattering window must have made such a racket that he ran off. The car alarm never sounded because it wasn't designed to sound for breaking glass. That car later ended up in salvage anyway.

I don't have a key for my cottage. There is a lock on the door but I've never used it.

Nope, can't go that care-free here.

I grew up in a place where neither we nor our neighbors ever locked our doors when we went on vacation. That changed one day when a burglar broke into one of the houses (by busting out a window, the dumbass didn't even check the doors). That was the day my parents had to replace the skeleton key lock on the front door ... after they found the skeleton key and discovered it no longer worked.

I value being human. Not seeing how far removed from my natural state I can get.

I just find it ironic that Christian ads are displayed next to videos for advanced weaponry.

What Would Jesus Do?

[Chronos]

Chris Rock's solution:

http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/4114423/Gun+Control/

Good point.

[Chronos]

Some gun group is offering 200 teachers in Utah free 6 hr. training so they can carry in the classroom.  6 hrs.  That should do it.

Now Ohio is following their example.

I keep thinking back to my teachers K-12 grades.  I can't thing of many I would want armed in the classroom...or at all.

While I love teachers and the teaching profession, and while I know that there are some drawbacks to both, most of the teachers I have known in my life are not sufficiently equipped to properly handle confrontations with parents (or maybe they are just hamstrung by management).

The only ones I could imagine carrying firearms are the ones who, in fact, were quite well trained in the use of firearms. We had two teachers in my high school who were former military members who were with the National Guard. They would mysteriously leave their teaching duties behind for 3-5 weeks at a time ... one was a former Army Ranger, another a former Navy Seal ... but we learned that they were called back to service from time to time to do work for the CIA. They always could afford nicer houses, cars and vacations than most of the other teachers ... they were also a bit suspicious of everything around them ...

Anyway, that was my school's contribution to gun violence.

[Chronos]

I predict that if we get guns into teachers hands, there wlll be more than 20 accidental deaths a year in schools due to these guns. And if New York policemen can shoot up 15 civilians in a shootout with a bad guy, how many innocents do you suppose the teachers can harm. What with so many available.

Well, maybe the NRA has a secondary agenda to reduce the US population?

[ParkingPlaces]

I predict that if we get guns into teachers hands, there wlll be more than 20 accidental deaths a year in schools due to these guns. And if New York policemen can shoot up 15 civilians in a shootout with a bad guy, how many innocents do you suppose the teachers can harm. What with so many available.

Well, maybe the NRA has a secondary agenda to reduce the US population?

I don't think its secondary...

[ParkingPlaces]

I don't have a key for my cottage. There is a lock on the door but I've never used it.

Nope, can't go that care-free here.

Well, keep in mind that I live in the middle of nowhere in Montana. The nearest bad buys are in Idaho and the nearest scary big animals are over a block away. When I lived in Indiana you bet I locked my house. Still no gun though.


Granted, I had to live with this guy standing 30 feet from my front door a few times last summer, but I couldn't shoot him under any set of circumstances.

[screwtape]

Some gun group is offering 200 teachers in Utah free 6 hr. training so they can carry in the classroom.  6 hrs.  That should do it.

Now Ohio is following their example.

I keep thinking back to my teachers K-12 grades.  I can't thing of many I would want armed in the classroom...or at all.

as if teachers haven't already had enough crap dumped on them and then been treated like garbage by the GOP.  They now want to make them the local swat team as well?

how long do you think it will take for a student to steal a gun or overpower a teacher and take the gun?  i'd put the over-under at about 2 weeks.

gun nuts are bottomlessly stupid.

[Nick]

A cop's gun went off twice in a mall recently.  Cops are really trained.  HOw often do you think that might happen in the classroom?

[jetson]

A cop's gun went off twice in a mall recently.  Cops are really trained.  HOw often do you think that might happen in the classroom?

I bet there are lots of cases of cops being overpowered and had their weapons used against them.  I'm too lazy to search, but with their training and awareness, and their supposed reluctance to use weapons, giving guns to teachers is a recipe for disaster.

[pianodwarf]

I bet there are lots of cases of cops being overpowered and had their weapons used against them.

There are.  In the United States, at least, of all cases where police officers are shot, approximately one-third of them are shot with their own weapons.

I'm too lazy to search, but with their training and awareness, and their supposed reluctance to use weapons, giving guns to teachers is a recipe for disaster.

Any program for arming teachers would have to be entirely voluntary, of course, and anyone reluctant to use a firearm for defense (teacher or otherwise) should not be carrying one.

[pianodwarf]

Cops are really trained.

This is a common myth.  It varies by department and academy, but for the most part, police officers don't receive very much firearms training.  The last time I looked into it, the agency I found that required the most was the LA police academy, which required seventy hours of training time before an officer could go armed.  Most agencies' requirements that I found were significantly lower than that.

[jetson]

In San Antonio, my son is having a difficult time getting into the police academy.  The entry requirements appear to be designed to weed out the wanna-be's, and let the few who truly have the drive and desire to get through.  I don't have details, but there are education requirements, and physical requirements, as well as the background check stuff that gets pretty detailed from what I have been asked!

Anyway, given that scenario, I see that once a person becomes a police officer, the requirements are relaxed!  IOW, I see an awful lot of officers who are overweight, and probably too old to be "on the beat" in certain ways.  I mean, we need the best of the best on these police forces, not what I have seen over the years.

[pianodwarf]

In San Antonio, my son is having a difficult time getting into the police academy.  The entry requirements appear to be designed to weed out the wanna-be's, and let the few who truly have the drive and desire to get through.  I don't have details, but there are education requirements, and physical requirements, as well as the background check stuff that gets pretty detailed from what I have been asked!

Yes, I've heard it's a beast.  There's also a psych evaluation as well.  All of which I definitely approve of.

Anyway, given that scenario, I see that once a person becomes a police officer, the requirements are relaxed!  IOW, I see an awful lot of officers who are overweight, and probably too old to be "on the beat" in certain ways.  I mean, we need the best of the best on these police forces, not what I have seen over the years.

Yes, it is a bit troubling to see some of those guys out there.  There should be some kind of requirement that officers remain physically fit, at least until they're older and more likely to be officers or doing some other kind of desk duty.  A captain in his fifties being overweight, I don't have much of a problem with -- he's a lot less likely to get into fights or have to run after suspects or something.  A beat cop in his twenties or thirties is another matter.

[Dante]

In other news, Chicago just reached 500 homicides on the year, in one of the most, if not the most, regulated gun markets in the US.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/chicago-reaches-500-homicides-fatal-shooting-18082567

[screwtape]

In other news, Chicago just reached 500 homicides on the year, in one of the most, if not the most, regulated gun markets in the US.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/chicago-reaches-500-homicides-fatal-shooting-18082567

how many of them are gun related?  If it is the most regulated market in the US[1], what does that mean?  Keep in mind, "the most regulated" is a relative thing.  It still might not be regulated enough for the desired outcome.

1.	assuming it is.  I don't want to argue that point

[ParkingPlaces]

In other news, Chicago just reached 500 homicides on the year, in one of the most, if not the most, regulated gun markets in the US.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/chicago-reaches-500-homicides-fatal-shooting-18082567

The right wing got all upset about the mislabeled, misreported gun sting operation along the Mexican border, but I noticed that none of the NRA supporters care about the fact that there are 8,000 in the gun shops in the U.S. near the Mexican border. Which makes gun laws in Mexico sort of moot, bad guy-wise.



No matter how one feels on the issue, there is no way to ignore the fact that local or even state laws cannot control unlicensed weapons and sources outside of their jurisdiction. Bad guys can get guns easily, and thoses who disagree with current regulations can get guns easily too, even if they are otherwise law-abiding citizens. I don't know the answer, but piecemeal efforts by local governments to control the problem are not likely to be too terribly successful. For that matter, there are so many guns in this country that I don't see how any new laws can appreciably reduce the number of weapons unless we just get all anal on the issue like we've been doing with drugs for the last fifty years.


Though of course the drug war has worked out well, hasn't it... 

[Dante]

how many of them are gun related?

No idea, but I'd be willing to hazard a guess that it's well over 75%.

If it is the most regulated market in the US[1], what does that mean?  Keep in mind, "the most regulated" is a relative thing.  It still might not be regulated enough for the desired outcome.

1.	assuming it is.  I don't want to argue that point

Basically, and I'm totally stealing this from a anonymous source, so one cant take it for gospel......

The new ordinance allows handgun ownership in Chicago but establishes strict guidelines about who can apply for a permit. It prohibits gun shops within city limits and requires potential handgun owners to register their guns with the Chicago Police Department. In addition, it requires handgun owners to have both a city permit and a state firearms identification card.

The new ordinance also addresses where handguns can be stored, saying that home storage does not include a garage, front porch, or yard. Other excluded sites for storage are hotels, dorms, and group living facilities. For transport outside the home, guns would need to be broken down and not trigger ready.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/0702/Chicago-passes-revised-gun-law-allowing-handgun-ownership